UFO Cover-Up?: Live! (1988 television special)

0:01 And uh we looked up and there were, you know, lights uh on the bottom part of it that we could see as we looked up. And uh this person has experienced a close encounter of the first kind. You've had a close encounter of the first kind. If you've seen a daylight disc or nocturnal light UFO at range, on April 14th, 1984, hundreds of people in the small mining town of Morreny, Arizona, witnessed a huge boomerang-shaped object in the sky. Close encounters of the second kind are visual evidence of a UFO's landing, such as impressions made by the craft, burned or irradiated soil, trees, or grass. In August of 1979 in northern Minnesota, when Deputy Sheriff Val Johnson encountered a brilliantly lighted object, his vehicle was knocked off the road, the hood dented, two antenna bent, and a headlamp broken. In a close encounter of the third kind, which Steven Spielberg made famous, the witness observes or actually confronts the occupants of the

1:04 UFO. Close encounters of the fourth kind include people who claim to have been abducted by extraterrestrials. In almost every case, abductees also claim to have been medically examined by the ETSs and eventually returned home, unable to account for the missing time. Now, there is a nominal charge of $1 on your phone bill for each call to our 900 number. The phones are active only in the United States and Canada from 8:00 p.m. Friday, October 14th through 1:00 a.m. Saturday, October 15th, East Eastern Daylight Time. So, if you've had a close encounter of the first kind, please call 1 19004006181. Close encounters of the second kind, call 1-4006182. If you've experienced a close encounter of the third kind, please call 1 1900400-6183. But that's only if you've had a third kind encounter though, not if you've just seen the movie. If you had a close encounter of the fourth kind and you are back, we're anxious to hear from you. Please call 1- 9004006184. Finally, if you have never

2:05 had an encounter with an unidentified flying object, please call 19004006185. If you haven't had an encounter with a UFO and would like to, that's a long-distance call and I don't have the number. Tonight, some of the world's leading UFO experts are joining us here in Washington DC. Now, welcome the author of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, the distinguished astrophysicist, Dr. Thomas Mcdana. Dr. Mcdana, welcome to be part of this event. In your opinion, are we alone in the universe? Though my own estimate is that just in our galaxy alone, there could be millions of planets that might be capable of sustaining life as we know it. The size of the universe is difficult to comprehend. In this galaxy, there are several hundred billion stars. Each one of these dots represents a galaxy like our Milky Way. There are billions of them. So, the sheer enormity of the numbers leads many scientists like myself to conclude that there must be life somewhere in the universe. Now, there are many theories about the origin of life. How do you think life first began in the universe? Well, that's

3:06 where the cosmic cookbook of life comes in. It goes like this. Take one medium-sized planet and place it near an averagesized star. Don't put it too close to the fire or it will burn not too far away or it'll freeze. Add water, ammonia, methane gas, and electricity in the form of lightning to get things going. Stir and wait patiently, but you'll have to be very patient. It might take several hundred million years, but sooner or later we think that some of those molecules will make bigger ones and the bigger ones will make even bigger ones and then reproduction will begin and life is born. But perhaps the most important lesson we've learned about life here on Earth is that it is incredibly adaptable. From prehistoric times until today, from the depths of the ocean to the driest deserts to the freezing cold at the highest mountain peaks, life forms on Earth are thriving. The reason I believe life probably exists elsewhere is the widespread availability of the ingredients in the cosmic cookbook of life. So if extraterrestrials exist and are visiting us, then how do they get from there to here?

4:07 One possibility is that in space you could accelerate until you were very close to the speed of light. With fusion rockets using the abundant hydrogen and helium already in space, so the rocket wouldn't have to be burdened carrying fuel, you could increase your energy by millions of times compared with conventional rockets. So within our lifetime, even with our primitive technology, according to scientists Robert Bassard, Robert Forward, and Stanton Friedman, round trips to nearby stars could very well be feasible. We are close to being able to get from here to there. Thank you, Dr. Tom Mcdana. Stay with us. Bill Moore and Jamie Chandere introduce us to their government informants, cenamed Falcon and Condor. To protect their identities, they were photographed in shadow with their voices disguised. Stay with UFO Coverup Live and find out why Project Blue Book was classified top secret when we come back this. US News wants to send you a free

5:14 ste once again live from Washington DC. Your host, Mike Frell. With all the UFO sightings reported over the years in America, the logical question is if they really exist, why don't they visit the White House? And then there they were all of a sudden on July 26th, 1952. The Air Force tried and failed to intercept up to a dozen UFOs in the sky over the White House. The press conference two days later became the largest media event since the end of World War II. We can say that the recent sightings are in no way connected with any secret development by any agency of the United With all due respect to the Air Force, I believe that some of them will prove to be of interplanetary origin. In my position in the research and development organization of the Bureau of Aeronautics and of the Navy Department, I am thoroughly familiar with both our aircraft and our guided missiles programs and can state without

6:16 reservation that the Navy has no saucer-shaped aircraft or missile in any of these programs. Headlines around the country aroused so much attention that the Air Force formed an official investigative unit, Project Blue Book. With me now are two retired Air Force colonels who were actively involved in that inquiry. Colonel Robert Friend, who headed up Project Blue Book for 5 years, and Colonel William Coleman, a former Air Force Squadron commander who was Pentagon spokesman and chief of public information for the Air Force? Friend, Colonel Coleman, welcome. Gentlemen, has the Air Force been involved with UFOs before the White House incident? Uh, during World War II, our pilots saw what were called gremlins and foo fighters. These were fireballs that appeared to fly along with our aircraft. We were concerned that these so-called foo fighters or fireballs might be foreign weapons that could threaten our national security. And did the air force ever try to chase a UFO? Yes. In fact, in 1948, one of our pilots crashed in pursuit of a UFO. The story made headlines all over the world. As I

7:18 understand it, that crash added emphasis to the conclusion that UFOs were extraterrestrial visitors. That's true. But the air force rejected the conclusion on the grounds of insufficient evidence. Even the name of the project was changed from sign to grudge during that period to preclude this unhealthy association. However, by the time blue book involved, we started running into trouble. Hearings and inquiries regarding the way in which we were performing UFO investigations in every instance the Congress of the United States concurred in the way in which we conducted these projects. However, we were not disappointed with the 1969 decision to discontinue Project Blue Book. Uh-huh. Out of the 12,000 reported UFO sightings, only 700 remained unexplained. Of that remainder, a hundred of them really worried us. Why was that? Because these 100 sightings involved the two criteria that defined a worrisome phenomenon. High stranges and high credibility. Meaning that highly

8:19 credible, multiple witnesses like military airline pilots see something they've never seen before. Have either of you ever seen a UFO? Yes. It was 1955 and I was a squadron commander at the time. We were flying a B25 over Alabama when we spotted a strange silvery object some 25,000 ft above us heading in the same direction. Since we were overtaking it, I changed course and eventually got within an eighth of a mile of it literally right on top of the thing. So you must have gotten a fairly good look at it. Well, he certainly did. The whole crew. It was wingless, a disc some 70 ft in diameter, 15 ft thick at the center. Your average run-of-the-mill flying saucer. And what happened then? It performed an astonishing maneuver. One second it was there, the next it was gone. But we chased it and caught sight of it again. It was skimming over a farmer's field, kicking up vortexes of red dust as it flew. We closed in on it from behind the trees, but it vanished. Mhm. Did you make a report of this incident? We all wrote up reports. I was later debriefed by an intelligence officer and years later when I was on

9:21 Project Blue Book, I tried to find my report. It was not in the files. Not in the files. Hm. Now, you say you saw this object at point blank range. Could it have been a balloon or an experimental aircraft? Absolutely not. It displayed a level of technology far beyond anything I had seen on the Earth then and now. With this advanced level of technology, were you ever concerned that the object could be a threat to national security? No, not necessarily a threat to our national security, but I was uneasy about these UFOs because they were able to accomplish aerial feats that we couldn't. The apparent capability of these objects could possibly represent a threat to our national security. What's become of Project Blue Book? That's it, Mike. It was cancelled in 1969 and will not be reactivated. Well, Colonel Coleman, Colonel Friend, thank you both. While we're on the subject of Blue Book, let's hear another view from a scientist currently working for the government. Now, because he has insisted on anonymity, both his appearance and his voice have been altered, but his credentials have been thoroughly researched by the investigative team of Bill Moore and Jamie Chandere. They've

10:22 given him the code name Condor. Project Bluebug was just a very low-level um effort by the Air Force to collect information on sightings. uh it had a very minimal staff of uh one officer, an NCO, a secretary, and a scientist. The interesting, most exciting reports that came into the blue book um were often siphoned off by what they call moles within the organization. Those reports were uh uh were pulled out of the files and never returned and just simply sent forward. the whole effort in the as far as Blue Wick was concerned was that uh they tried uh every way they could to simply um dismiss and explain away sightings. They certainly didn't want unknowns. The effort of Blue Book was to minimize uh the effects of these reports and to try

11:23 to explain away as many as they could. And of course, it worked. It worked. in the fact that they closed down um project blue bucket in terminated the air force's involvement official air force involvement public involvement with the subject of UFOs of course we know that they carried on with a covert then when blue book closed down the official US government position was that UFOs didn't exist and Americans accepted this contention as fact or did we do you hear Something here. What? I don't hear. Shh. Listen. Subsequent reports were discredited,

12:23 relegated to the tabloids at the supermarket checkout counter. After Blue Book's final report, anyone who claimed to see a UFO was considered some kind of It was a saucer. We saw it. We heard it. Both of us. What more do we need to We have to have time to think to this before we sound off. So most sightings go unreported, particularly sightings by aircraft Could be a satellite 31. I have the primary target now in your 10:00 The traffic is proceeding norththeastbound. No altitude reading desend. Wait a second. Stand by one. Okay, center 31. The traffic is turned heading right from my

13:24 windshield. We're turning right immediately and leaving flight level 350 now. Aries 31 descend and maintain flight level 310. Great. Caligan triple 4, turn right 30° up there. This is Indianapolis. Do you have any test operations restricted area 258? 517, do you want to report a UFO? Over. Negative. We don't want to report. Aries 31, do you wish to report a UFO? Over.

14:25 Negative. We want to report one of those either. Uh, Aries 31, me neither. I'll try to track traffic to destination. With me now are Dr. Richard F. Haynes and Captain Neil Daniels. Dr. Haynes, now retired, directed research and development projects at NASA's AS Research Center for 20 years. Welcome, Dr. Haynes. Captain Daniels. Dr. Haynes, tell us about pilot sightings that you've been studying. Well, Mike, I've dealt with over 3,000 pilot cases from all over the world, including some very skeptical pilots, I might add, who have since seen a UFO and completely changed their minds and risk their reputations. Why do you limit your research to pilots? Well, because pilots are very reliable and credible witnesses. Uh, their jobs and their lives of their passengers depend on them. They must be aware of what's going on in the skies around them. Unfortunately, most of them ask for anonymity. Really? Why is that? Well, I think it's because of fear of ridicule or worse, fear of losing their jobs. I mean, no airline wants to be

15:26 promoted with the slogan, fly us and see a UFO. Might increase business. Fortunately, we do have a pilot who has come forward and has enough courage to share his experiences. Captain Neil Daniels, who flew for United Airlines for 35 years. Captain Daniels, thanks for being here. Would you tell us about your experience with a UFO? Uh, I was piloting a flight from San Francisco to Boston on March the 12th in 1977. and an altitude of 37,000 ft. I became aware of a blinding bright white light out to the left of the DC10. I estimated to be at about 1,000 yards and uh I don't know. The object could have been several hundred feet in diameter, but it didn't read on ground radar. Could you tell what it was? No. Could it have been a commercial flight or a military aircraft? Absolutely not. Uh at the speed at which it departed, I've never seen anything like it. Was this object in any way a threat to your plane? Uh the three compasses were indicating opposite directions and the plane was veering off and banking to the left from this by a strong magnetic pole. Yeah. Well, how did you and your crew react? Uh the flight engineer kept repeating,

16:26 uh I don't want to see it. I don't want to know about it. I don't want to know about it. Did you file a report? It was a short layover and the FAA would have hassled me all night. So, I let it go. So, that was the end of that. Yes. But uh 6 months later, I was on a hunting trip with my boss and I told him the story and he said, "Gee, I'm sorry you told me that. Strange things happen to people who have these sightings." Strange things like what? Well, in my experience, people are fearful of losing their jobs or being transferred. So much for telling the truth. Well, thank you, Dr. Haynes, Captain Daniels, for coming forward on UFO coverup. Incidentally, Captain Daniels now lectures at San Francisco's fear of flying clinic. I mean, flying airplanes, not flying saucers. This is American flight 812 requesting. Holy mackerel. Burbank tower to American flight 812. Are you in trouble? Trouble. Take a look for yourself.

17:30 What the world? That's nothing from this Coming up, a startling report live from Not only did the pilot and the crew see the U4, but also many of the passengers of the planeation act. We've obtained a report Iran. On September 18th, 1976, the Imperial Iranian Air Force reported flying objects so bright they illuminated the ground below. Alarmed citizens all over Thran telephoned authorities with similar sightings. Simultaneous reports came from the Iranian Air Force, tower personnel, and ground radar. US military intelligence forwarded reports to the Defense Intelligence Agency. As far as we've been able to ascertain, DIA did nothing with these reports. Guatemala, Central America. Camera crews were poised to film a car commercial. Suddenly, the cameraman was distracted by lights in the sky.

18:30 And now from Manitoba, Canada, an eyewitness account. Welcome Mr. Robert Barry, an independent researcher and investigator from York, Pennsylvania. Bob, tell us about the sighting near Manitoba. We're watching as this UFO moves across the screen three times at normal speed. Then the same movement once in very slow motion, 140th the normal speed. Now, here's another sighting of the same object also witnessed by the whole town of Carmen, Manitoba, who turned out for the incredible light show. Now, as we slow the film down, watch as the UFO jumps from the right side of the screen to the top of the screen and lights up the whole sky. The UFO is calculated to have been traveling faster than 30,000 m an That's very impressive. In fact, it did appear to light up the whole sky. Now, live by satellite to Moscow for the first UFO glasnost in television

19:30 history. Please welcome from the Soviet news agency TAS, our journalist and UFO investigator who has researched many encounters with UFOs in the Soviet Union, Mr. Sergey Bulansaf. Welcome, Sergey. Sergey, can you hear me? We don't seem to be getting through. I've been listening to the show, Michael. It's really very exciting. I am very pleased to be a part of it. Thank you, sir. Tell me, what are the most impressive recent UFRO reports in the In 1984, a Tupio aircraft flying from Bissi to Talion encountered a UFO at 4:10 a.m. Can you tell me who witnessed Who witnessed that? First the pilot noticed. No. First the pilot noticed a bright beam of light shoot down to the

20:32 ground. Everything on the ground, road and houses were totally illuminated by were totally illuminated by a beam of light. The beam of light was redirected onto the airplane and the crew saw a blinding white point of light surrounded by concentric colored circles. As I'm told that that indicates the presence of a very strong magnetic field. What happened next? The right point of light swept down to the plane, leaving a green cloud and began to swing from left to right, up and down once again. Finally, finally, it flew alongside the airplane. And as if it was an escort, the passengers of the plane also

21:32 saw this UFO. And uh after landing in Talian Estonia, the crew was told that this UF4 had been also seen on the rad screen. The common denominator in these sightings seems to be some sort of 1981 Uraslav some 200 km from Moscow north of Moscow. Two witnesses, Vitari, 23, and uh Alexander, 32, saw something really very strange in the park. That was an eggshaped object object lying on the ground uh just six or maybe 7 m from them. The object was bluish um about 5 m in diameter and uh 2 or 3 m uh high. Uh it uh suddenly the object uh moved and uh began to open like a flower.

22:34 Alexander saw two human like beings. Two humanlike beings of European type of European type but very tall more than 2 m close to 7 feet. They grew up from the center of the old object and approached Alexander. He said both beings were radiating some kind of uh Their heads were clear, but the rest of their bodies was out seemed out of focus. And then a very strange telepathic conversation took place. They said, "Don't be afraid. We won't hurt you." In the movie here, the Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the extraterrestrials communicate with us through some sort of language of of music, much as you suggested, they talk to Alexander. What happens next? Both humanike beings enter the flower. It

23:34 closed and disappeared. What about the other man? What was he doing during this time? All this time he was sitting on the snow as if he was paralyzed. He didn't part uh he didn't take part in the conversation. I don't blame him. Have you investigated any abduction cases in the USSR? Uh yes. In near in June near south of Moscow at 200 a.m. a Soviet army officer saw a very strange domed U4 aircraft on the ground. He he approached it and saw two alien silhouettes inside. When he came closer, he felt something like an invisible wall and don't then lost consciousness. When recovered, he saw an alien craft uh

24:35 aircraft fly away. Uh he thought about uh 15 minutes had passed. And when he checked his watch, much to his amazement, one hour had passed. And later he uh had the same dream over and over again. He was flying over the U4 landing site. Uh so he thinks he was abducted. That sounds actually very similar to some of the abduction stories we've encountered in the United States. I understand you have some photographs that you can show us. certainly. Uh this V was made in Bulgaria near Star Zagora uh in uh July 1978. A married couple was drinking tea at the country house when they saw this hovering object. They took this snapshot with a Polaroid camera and uh this UFO this uh UFO had been seen. Please

25:40 picture. Please change picture. And another UFO. This UFO. Yes. This UFO had been seen u near at the Mman's region near Finland's border the same year. This snapshot had been reportedly made by the militia. Thank you, Sergey. Joining us now is Leonard Nikishan, science secretary, excuse me, of the working group extraterrestrial intelligence in the USSR Academy of Sciences. Mr. Nikishan, I understand that you have thousands of reports of UFO sightings in the Soviet Yes, most of them were were explained uh later as natural events but some were mysterals and unexplainable. I feel these are extraterrestrial probes

26:41 without light as we know it. Uh you mean unmanned space probes? Was there any u official reaction to UFOs from Soviet science? Recently most uh scientists here dismissed them. But now the situation is uh changing. Several years ago, we formed a a UFO group that included many investigators, scientists, cosmonauts, technicians, writers, journalists and so on. In 1944, in 19 it's all right. 84. Uh we published an announcement in several Soviet newspapers asking uh anyone who could get uh you for experience uh to contact our

27:42 organization. That's interesting. We're doing the very same thing tonight. What kind of responses did you get? It only appeared once. Uh we were amazed uh to receive approximately 20,000 letters. Uh-huh. Now we are attempting to approach uh the UFO UFO phenomena uh in a more scientific way uh for in our search for methods to contact uh with extraterrestrial intelligence. Very good. Personally, I am sure we'll meet extraterrestrial at last. Uh maybe sooner than we think. Thank you, sir. Sergey Bulansov, Leonard, Nikishian, thank you very much for all you've done so far. Stay with us and we'll get back

28:43 you. Here's a reminder. Tonight, you can share your UFO experience with the rest of the world. If you had a close encounter of the first kind, call 1 190046181. The second kind 1 190046182. The third kind 1 190046183. The fourth kind 1 190046184. And if you never experienced a close encounter and want to tell us, 190046185. If you feel based on the evidence being presented tonight that a congressional investigation of UFOs is warranted, telephone 1 190046186. But if you feel a congressional investigation is unwarranted, call 1 190046187. Next, two people who have survived a close encounter with a UFO but suffered dire consequences. Stay with us.

29:53 Now back to Washington DC live and Mike Ferrell. In the 1950s, America went UFO crazy. Waves of sightings were often followed by waves of hoaxes. Franksters were busy airbrushing negatives and doing photographic cut and paste jobs. They even tossed sauce pans in front of the camera and dangled hubcaps in the air. Obviously, they were just out to get publicity. George Adamsky claimed direct contact with blondhaired aliens who took him to the moon and Venus where he said he took these photographs. Then came the Barker incident at a small airfield in West Virginia where this film footage was shot. This was termed the Lost Creek flying saucer. Many people who saw this film believed that the hanging thing you see was in fact a UFO. We'll leave it to you. The 60s and 70s brought various groups of people who actually built saucers shaped vehicles and attempted to

30:54 fly them. And about 10 years ago, there began what we believed to be the most elaborate hoax of all. A Swiss farmer, Billy Meyer, claimed to have had direct contact with an extraterrestrial group from the Pleaides star system. Meer produced photographs of what he called beam ships and uh the occupants of these beam ships. Interestingly, one of the aliens looked very much like a Swiss fashion model and the so-called beam ship was found in his barn. Now, Billy Meyer's beam ships may have been obvious hoax, but thousands of UFO sightings from all over the world are not so easily explained away. Joining me now from the suburbs of New York City are Robert Polei, a computer systems executive, and his wife Lori. I'm glad you could be with us tonight. Thank you and nice to be here. Uh, tell us what happened to you four years ago. Local residents around our town of Brewster, New York, reported seeing UFOs. More than 9,000 reports came in and were always the same. Noiseless, hovering, boomerang shaped objects.

31:55 approximately 150 ft from wing tip to wing tip. When we spotted it, I had my video camera and we quickly started shooting the footage you'll see. I think your comments on the tape are especially interesting. Let's look at it now. Oh my good god. What do you think? I don't know. Not playing. I'll be I'm going to tell you something funny. I don't know what the hell it is. Tell me what kind of effect this sighting has had on your life. Wow, we've become very popular. Well, that's certainly not bad, is it? No. Bob and Lori Poselli, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. Now, from the piny woods of East Texas on December 23rd, 1980 comes a bizarre close encounter of the second kind experienced by our next guests, Betty Cash and Vicky Landram. Betty, Vicki, thank you for making the trip here tonight. Welcome to our show. Tell me what happened to you that night. It was a very cold night.

32:55 Vicki and I and her grandson were coming back from playing bingo. Suddenly, little Kobe noticed a bright light in the sky above the pine trees. A tremendous amount of heat was coming from this diamond shaped thing. Fire was coming out of the bottom of it. When it moved, it made a swishing sound. And there was a beeping the entire time, a deafening beeping that I still hear in my mind at night. All three of us got out of the car, but Kobe and I got right back in. I just stood there terrified for about 10 minutes. The object lit up the surrounding pine woods like it was daylight. I was burning. My skin was burning. Well, you must have been terrified. How long did the craft hover over you? Oh, about 20 minutes. Fire was coming out of the bottom like a blowtorrch. It lifted up and then flew over the trees. That was when we saw the helicopters come out. The helicopters Kobe County, 23 of them. And I

33:56 understand in fact you later identified them as CH47 Chinook military helicopters. Yes. It seems if they were trying to escort the craft somewhere. It looked like they're about were about to collide. The roar sounded like a tornado. When we got home, I washed co Kobe off and put him to bed. When the water touched his skin, he cried out like he had been burned as if he had been in the sun too long. And I was too sick to work the next day. My eyes swell closed and welts appeared on my face and head. I thought I was going to die. Vicki came and took me to the emergency room of the hospital. They treated me like a burn burn patient. Over the next few days, I kept losing big patches of skin on my face and about half my hair fell out. They kept me in the hospital over a month with no improvement. It seems to me it takes remarkable inner strength to survive an ordeal like that. How are you doing now? I have cancer. I was operated down in March 1983 and the doctors could

34:57 not say if they got it all. Now, some days I'm okay, other days are terrible. Has the government ever expressed a willingness to take responsibility for this thing? No. And I'm mad. I'm mad as hell and disappointed with the government of our United States. Well, I don't blame you, Miss Cash. And Miss Landram, thank you for joining us in Washington. I I think you two are extraordinarily courageous ladies. Thank you. We'd like you to Thank you. We We'd like you to see this exclusive videotape of a man we know only as Falcon. We asked him what the truth was concerning your case. The cash lander incident. The craft that was observed was a alien craft piloted by military aircraft pilots. Although they had been trained and were somewhat familiar with the craft, they found that the aircraft did not respond to certain controls. They radioed that they thought

36:00 the craft was going to crash. Standard procedures for the military in a situation where an aircraft was going to crash. The military would send up search and rescue helicopters. The helicopters were following the craft. The craft experienced severe problems. It was thought that the craft was going to crash. However, this craft did not Here are two hypotheses. One, the UFO Betty Cash and Vicky Landram saw was actually an aircraft developed by the United States government. Another possibility suggested by Falcon is that it was a craft given our government by extraterrestrials. Stand by for firstirhand reports of abduction, close encounters of the fourth kind. Stay with UFO Coverup Live. You can depend on a come back to UFO coverup live. Rosemary Osnado, a commercial graphic

37:02 artist, lives in New York City's East Village. Rosemary suffered a broken kneecap last year and is recuperating from the injury. Al Hassim lives in the Bronx with his wife and 11-year-old daughter and works the 400 p.m. to midnight shift for the telephone company in Manhattan. In his off hours, Al likes to play guitar and write songs. Lisa Salviano of Lake Hayawa, New Jersey, is 24, married, and pregnant with her first child. She works as a secretary in Morristown, New Jersey. These three ordinary individuals, unrelated to one another, share one extraordinary experience. With the guidance of a psychiatrist, Dr. Remma Lebo. They have been able to relive deeply buried memories that will astonish you. Under hypnosis, the subjects are put into a relaxed state in which they can recall these disturbing memories. And once regress, they relive the experience in real time, often very emotionally, moment by moment. They

38:04 reexperience what went what they went through the first time, though it may have taken place months or even years earlier. Now, please watch as we replay portions of their hypnosis session. Now, I could see the the lights in the city and there was this light coming over my head. Very bright, very intense light. sharp, heavy. It was coming straight down. Kept looking and see what was on the roof. I'm trying to see what it is. I can't I can't see what it is. What's preventing you from seeing? Cuz it's so bright. I can't I can't look through the brightness to see what it is. I was uh woken up. I was sleeping. I woke up. Mhm. There's somebody outside my

39:06 Mhm. They wanted me to go to They wanted me to go out. Mhm. And I didn't know how I would get out there cuz the window was there. Mhm. But when I thought that, all of a sudden, I started to move up and out and I went through the window and I thought that was so neat. Can you feel your feet on the floor and walking in a regular way? No, it's it doesn't seem like I walk because it seems like I don't see anything like when you walk you can see like things going up and down when you walk. This is smooth. When you get to the end of this walk, where are you? Some kind of control something. Mhm.

40:07 What makes it look like some kind of control room? of this. It's like a big console one day. I think there was table in the room. Table in the room? Like an eating table? Mm- Oh. What kind of table? Like a doctor's office. Like they make me lie. Lie on it. Lie down on the table. You're lying on your tummy. What about my back? On your back? When you're lying there, are you alone? No, they're all over. They're all over. Does anybody touch you? I think they do. Yeah. Where do they touch you? I think like my arms and legs. Are you alone? No, they're all over. How many of them are there around the table? At least four or five. Mhm. And are they all doing something or are they all watching? No, they're watching

41:09 too. Uh-huh. How many of them are actually doing something? One. They're so ugly. What makes them so ugly? They look mean. What makes them look They don't smile. They don't smile. My god, he's ugly. That is an ugly thing. ugly. His head looks so pathetic. His heads, they just don't look right. Their heads don't look right. They look distorted and very sickly. Mhm. It's um the skull looks uh pointed in the front and larger in the back. He looks like a big insect. What makes him look like a big insect? The shape of his head. Tell me about the shape of his head. Almost like a football. Their eyes are very black. Mhm. And slanted

42:12 and sort of wrinkled around the edges around the eyes are sort of like lizard eyes in a way. Big black eyes. Big black eyes. Do they have Come, I will show you wonders you have never seen before. UFO coverup continues live from Washington DC with our host Mike One of the most intriguing UFO stories occurred in July of 1947 in New Mexico. With me now are Bill Moore, co-author of the Roswell Incident and nuclear physicist Stanton T. Freriedman. Both of these gentlemen have done extensive research on this case. Thanks for joining us. Bill, how many people were involved in the New Mexico incident? We have personal testimonies from about a hundred people. One of the most

43:13 important of these people was Bill Brazzle. Brazil's father managed the land where the incident took place. Apparently, a UFO had been caught in a thunder and lightning storm while in the area. The next day, Brazzle's father went out on horseback to check for property damage and came upon the wreckage of a strange aircraft which fanned out for nearly half a mile. The corpses were found a couple of miles from the sight of the crash. Where are they? Just a moment. Corpses? Dead alien bodies called extraterrestrial biological entities, EBEs, if you wish. We got reports that they appeared to be small humanoid bodies with large hairless heads wearing one piece seamless gray skin-like clothing. We assume they must have ejected from their craft with some kind of ejection capsule. The Air Force came and recovered the bodies and took them away for autopsies. Gentlemen, autopsies, EBEs. This is rather unsettling information. Level with us. What do we know to be fact? We know these are the facts. A very strange spacecraft exploded. Pieces of the craft were recovered. Several bodies were found and removed along with the wreckage. We can

44:14 prove the story was covered up very quickly at the highest level and given a classification above top secret. Flying saucers are real. Period. The first person sent by the Air Force to investigate the crash site and to take care of the wreckage was a Major Jesse Marcel. Let's meet his son, Dr. Jesse Marcel, who was 12 years old at the time and needless to say has never forgotten that incident. Welcome, Dr. Marcel. Right. See you, Jesse. I'm Phil. doctor, tell us, if you will, about the night your dad came home from that crash site. My my father came home with his car loaded with debris after investigating the crash site. He brought the material into the house where he, my mother, and I sorted through the stuff. Mong litter was a foil-like sheathing alloy. It was metallic and it looked like the skin of an aircraft, but it was unlike anything I had ever seen. Also, there was an I-beam about a foot to a foot and a half in length. are one half inch across. The inner surface had hieroglyphic like symbols on it, like

45:14 Egyptian symbols as I recall them. And what was the Air Force's explanation of all this? The explanation was that a weather balloon had crashed. Did your father think it was a weather balloon? Anything but I believe the meaning behind his words was that he suspected there might have been some kind of cover up. What happened to all this debris you've described? Well, the debris which had been removed was never seen again. It was taken from your house to Carwell Air Force Base in Fort Worth, Texas. Now, Dr. Dr. Marcel, you've examined the material firsthand. You've had a long time to think about it. What is your assessment of the Roswell incident? I held the material in my hand. It was not from this earth or this universe or news from the universe. That's what I think. We're not alone. Thank you, gentlemen. Now, if this story is true, then we have to rethink the government's role in the history of UFOs. The government, in fact, may have had the answer in their hands over 40 years ago. The United States Air Force has played a major role in America's attitude toward unidentified flying objects. Here's another account of how the Air Force dealt with such phenomena. With me is author and filmmaker Robert Emgger and

46:16 former security manager and chief of requirements for the audiovisisual program at Norton Air Force Base, Paul Chartle. Gentlemen, Mr. Enegger, how did you get involved with UFOs? Well, it was in 1973 when I was vice president at Grey Advertising and I took time out and went to Norton Air Force Base to explore subjects for television specials related to the defense department. While discussing several of the subjects, UFOs came up and Paul here told us about a film of a landing of alien crafts at Hollowman Air Force Base about 3 years earlier. What did you see, Mr. Shuttle? I saw footage of three disshaped crafts. One of the craft landed and two of them went away. Why did it land? It appeared to be in trouble because it oscillated all the way down to the ground. However, it did land on three pods. A sliding door opened, a ramp was extended, and out came three aliens. What What did they look like? Well, they were humanized. They had odd gray complexion and a pronounced nose. They wore tight fitting jumpsuits, thin headdresses that appeared to be communication devices, and their hands

47:17 in their hands they held a translator. I was told a Hollowman base commander and other Air Force officers went out to meet me. And you actually saw these aliens on the film? Yes. This film footage sounded very, very special and we wanted to use it as the ending of our television special. Did you? Was it in your special? Well, although the Pentagon had been very, very cooperative all the way. At the last minute, the film was confiscated and we lost the whole finale of our show. But what I saw and heard was enough to convince me that, you know, the phenomenon of UFOs is real, very real. Mr. Mr. Sharter, what did your superior officers tell you? I was told it was theatrical footage the Air Force has p purchased to make a training film. Well, that sounds plausible, doesn't it? Well, if it were a uh theatrical film, why didn't I have a record of this? It was my job to keep accurate records of all audiovisisual purchases. Is there any other reason that you feel this was not a theatrical film? Yes, it was too real. The people who were shooting that day were Air Force personnel. Lucky for us, the day they were shooting, they were doing an acceleration test. Yeah. It's too bad we

48:19 couldn't get that footage from the Air Force. Gentlemen, thank you very much for being with us tonight. One of the most compelling sightings in recent years took place in Gulf Breeze, Florida, where over 100 people witnessed UFO. I believe Gulf Breeze will turn out to be one of the most important UFO cases of all time. Hello, G Breeze. Next, a live firsthand report of amazing sightings on the Gulf Coast of Florida. UFO coverup sponsored in part by New Cheese Ritz Bits. Tiny Ritz crackers with a taste of real. Rod Serling himself couldn't have come up with a stranger sequence of events. Gulf Breeze is a beautiful affluent community of 6,000 on a peninsula near Pensacola, Florida. It is here on a quiet residential street that a person known to us only as Ed spotted a strange object floating above his house. November 11th, 1987, Ed snapped

49:22 five photographs that day and changed his life forever. Over the next 7 months, he saw the object several times, shooting another 36 pictures with three different cameras. Witnesses include his wife and kids, family, friends, neighbors, and even city officials. Two other people allegedly photographed the same object. Could it be a secret military device? Gulf Breeze is literally surrounded by military bases, but the public information officers disclaim official knowledge of any UFO. Now, here's Ed's photograph of a UFO. Notice the strong blue beam that Ed claims first paralyzed him, then levitated him and dropped him. Clumsy aliens. This is the most famous of Ed's photographs, which he took weeks later through the windshield of his truck. The UFO hovers just three pe three 3 ft off the ground. Its beam reflecting off the asphalt. Ed says he was partially paralyzed again, but escaped this time. This is Ed's home video shot as he crouched in the bushes near his home. The UFO retraces its

50:25 path, rotating as it travels through the same airspace. Notice how it goes behind the trees in and out, reversing direction and coming back. Now, Ed is a respected family man, runs a successful business, and has shunned all publicity and declined to be on our show. What about it, Greeze? Is there really something going on down there, or is it all an elaborate hoax? Dwayne Cook is editor of the Gulf Breeze Sentinel. Donald Wear is a UFO investigator who claims to know of 153 firstirhand witnesses who have seen the object. Jerry Brown is the chief of police in Gulf Breeze. Don, you're an ex- Air Force officer who's firmly convinced something extraterrestrial has been appearing in the skies around above Gulf Breeze. What convinced you, Mike? One couple had 22 encounters, including 18 separate photographic sessions in a 5 and a half month period. And many independent witnesses, highly credible, also reported seeing the same objects that were photographed. All right. Four people reported seeing the

51:26 aliens. Six reported blue beams coming from the UFO and 10 have reported periods of missing time. Okay. How about you, Chief Brown? I take it you're not No, sir, I'm not. Uh we are one of the have one of the busiest airspaces in the country. And uh not to say that all these people here are lying, not telling the truth. I firmly believe they are seeing something because at any time or any place there's different lights, different things that you can see. What I don't believe is the things the local papers and the TV media has put out of a flying saucer with beings from another planet. I just simply don't believe that. Okay, Dwayne, I guess you could say that you're the fellow responsible for stirring this up. Your paper has faithfully supported Ed's story, much to the constrnation of many of your Well, I guess you could say we have stirred it up, Mike, but I really can't say I'm aware of any too much consternation. Uh, most of G Breeze

52:28 really believes Ed's photographs and his story, just like they believe the 100 plus other witnesses that have seen it, most of which are here tonight. Now, reporter Mark Curtis in Pensacola has followed the saga of the Gulf Breeze UFO from the very beginning. What were your initial thoughts, Mike? I was amazed at the detail and clarity of these photographs, but I was very skeptical. So, we brought in some photographic experts to look at them, and none have been able to tell that these pictures are fakes. Also, Ed has taken two lie detector tests and passed them both. Aside from the pictures, though, this is the story of the witnesses and the people. Charlie Summerby and his wife Doris saw this object last November. Charlie, if you could tell us what you saw. Well, it was right after sunset over East Bay. We saw this circular object. It was bluish gray in color and uh with light shining out through port holes. And the really amazing thing was there was no sound. Jesse and Alice Bertrram, please join us. Jesse is a youngster here. He was playing with a friend last December. Tell us what you saw. We were climbing a tree and we saw a blackish white object

53:31 and it was moving. Then it disappeared. We ran behind the golf breeze elementary school and then it we saw it moving again. Then it disappeared. Mrs. Bertrram, what did you do? Did you believe these youngsters when they told you this? No, I didn't. I'm a skeptic anyway, but I had them sit down at different ends of the table and draw what they saw. And the pictures were identical and they matched what were in the newspaper. One of the most interesting sightings came from Jeff Thompson. Jeff, if you join us and tell us what you saw in the morning during the daylight on November 11th. It was November 11th at 8:10 in the morning. A UFO came within 400 ft of me at treetop level. I noticed two military jets were following it about two air miles. The UFO shot up at a 45 degree angle and waited for the jets to approach a little closer and then in an instant it just shot straight up. What happened to the jets? And are you sure they're military jets? Yeah, they're military jets I believe out of Eglund because around here we just have the red and white Navy training jets and they just the military jets just kind of curved over the bay and went on back towards Eglund. This

54:31 may just be the tip of the iceberg. How many people in this room tonight have seen a UFO? Raise your hands, please. Well, there you have it, Washington. Okay. Well, you keep watching Gulf Breeze because you'll find this next interesting. UFO coverup worked closely with two of the nation's leading experts in photographic analysis in an attempt to shed some light on the photographs taken by the man called Ed. Dr. Robert Nathan has been with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for 16 years. During that time, he's exposed many UFO photos as hoaxes. Our staff gave Dr. Nathan several of the negatives in the hope that his advanced techniques in computer enhancement would shed some light on the controversy. I'm uh not too comfortable with the Dolph Breeze photographs. I feel that many of these images are double exposure photographs. The craft in many of these images seems to be a a different focus that they're either more sharply focused or fuzzier than the

55:34 surrounding background objects. The spacecraft appears to be rather uh bright. It's as if there is some kind of external light shining on it. The situation that would arise if the craft were in a room at an earlier time with room light shining from all directions. Uh it seems that in quite a few of these pictures the uh very top and bottom of the spacecraft are very sharply cut off whereas the rest of the image is rather fuzzy giving me the feeling that there was some kind of u cut and paste onto some surface. It appears that with every photograph where this object appears that it's against a relatively uniformly dark background, the kind that you need for double exposure. When you add two images together, you get the intensities added. And even though the uh port holes, if that's what they are, appear rather dark, they're never darker than

56:36 the background sky. I've been chasing these UFO sightings for over 30 years. I would have liked to have said differently, but I'm afraid the Gulf Breeze photographs just don't check out. Thank you, Dr. Nathan. Now, to make things perfectly clear, a man who takes a completely different view is Dr. Bruce Makabe, an optical physicist working for the US Navy, who has explained many UFO photos in the past. Dr. Makabe, you've spent hundreds of hours studying these images, and you've come to the conclusion that there's no hoax involved in this case. Is that correct? Yes, Mike. Dr. Dr. Nathan has studied only a few of the photographs. I, on the other hand, have analyzed all the photographic evidence, which includes stereo photos that allowed me to calculate the distance and size of the UFO. I have also analyzed videotape. I have asked myself, if the photographic evidence were a hoax, how was it done? I have considered many methods for creating trick photos. Each method can leave a characteristic flaw within a photo. And I have searched for such flaws. For example, I have looked above each UFO to see if there is a fine line indicating

57:36 it was suspended by a string. I have looked below each image to see if there is any indication it was resting on a table or post. I have looked for reflections in glass, double exposures, and photographic montages. I have found that none of these methods have been used. Therefore, after many, many hours of analysis, I have found nothing in the photos which could refute the sighting reports. My opinion is that the photos are genuine and these crafts are not from here unless there's some race other than the human race operating them. Thank you, Dr. Mcabe, for your analysis. Well, you've seen the evidence and heard some conflicting opinions. What do you Next, what is MJ12? And another live report on UFOs from Moscow. Call us now. UFO coverup live. Earlier in the show, we met Bill Moore. Joining us now is Jamie Chandere, a television producer and director. Both began regular contacts with government agents regarding UFOs 6 years ago and

58:36 amassed an enormous quantity of information about the government's UFO program. Welcome, gentlemen. Uh, Bill, tell us how you first got involved. I got a phone call after appearing on a radio show from a man who said, "You're the only person we've heard talk about this subject who seems to know what he's talking about." He convinced me that he was a government intelligence agent and wanted to begin disseminating some information about UFOs to the public. The man Bill is referring to is Falcon, whom we've seen in shadow to protect his identity. That's right. I didn't think that I could handle it all alone. The volume of material I was getting from Falcon was rather mind-boggling. So I got together with Jamie and we joined forces in June of 1982 and Falcon told us about MJ12. MJ12 functions as a policymaking group relating to extraterrestrial activities and contacts and UFO activities within the United States. They make the policy,

59:36 obtain presidential approval, and then field activities implement the policies. How did you acquire the MJ12 documents? Well, they were mailed to me in a plain brown envelope which contained President Truman's executive order establishing MJ12 and the briefing document to President-elect Eisenhower, informing him of the 1947 crash in Roswell, New Mexico, and the recovery of alien bodies. Now, then there were follow-up postcards, Ethiopian picture postcards mailed from New Zealand with puzzles and riddles, right? The puzzles were clues. For example, for a stylish look, shopped Suit Land. This led us to the National Repository in Sutland, Maryland, where we discovered the existence of top secret documents and filed a Freedom of Information request, which led us further to the Cutler Twining Document. Now, all of our meetings with Falcon were secret. Now, wait, gentlemen. riddles, postcards, secret meetings, code words. Didn't you suspect somebody was pulling your leg? We always look for a hoax, but within every clue, there was always some verifiable fact. So, you were able to verify MJ12? Validating

1:00:38 MJ12 was difficult because we couldn't find any government agency that would admit publicly that they were aware of MJ12's existence. Well, so without validating it, how do you get from there to here? Well, after hundreds of hours of research, we're working with experts trying to validate the documents. But most important, the contacts have grown to include Falcon and nine other government agents. And why do you believe them? Well, because we've been able to meet with them. We've been able to check and verify credentials, and it's clear that they are in secret, need to know positions. Falcon's position, for example, gives him access to the MJ12 infrastructure. Why don't we just hear it in his own words? MJ12 was a group of people within the the government. MJ12 was created by President Truman early 50s and their job was to investigate keep track of information pertaining to UFOs. Part of their job was scientific advancements but uh their primary purpose was to keep track of the information coming in on UFOs and to analyze the information both

1:01:40 uh scientifically and in a way that would advance our technology. There are government officials and elected officials that are automatically briefed on the existence of the MJ12 activities. These officials include the president, the vice president as elected officials, the director of central intelligence, and the director of the National Security Agency. The MJ12 policy is headquartered at the Naval Observatory in Washington DC. The United States Navy has the primary operational responsibilities of field activities relating to the MJ12 All information gathered in the field, not necessarily by Navy personnel, is transmitted to the Navy for

1:02:44 analysis. Other known government agencies feed information to MJ12 through a top secret cover project known to us as Project Aquarius. Now MJ12 connects to select individuals within the National Security Council, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the White House Intelligence Unit, the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Defense Intelligence Agency. The research is conducted, the data classified and cataloged, all under the umbrella of strictest national security. The MJ12 table of organization created by Mo and Chandere purports to give us an understanding of a complex intragovernmental chain of command existing solely to oversee, organize, and administer the data on UFOs and ETSs. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Thank you. When we come back, Falcon and Condor's stunning revelations on the existence of extraterrestrial aliens. Stay with us. in the desert. Next on UFO Coverup Live, what Bill Moore and Jamie Chandere's

1:03:44 source, Falcon, told us about aliens, will astonish you. LBS Communications and Seligman Productions makes no claim in favor of or against the truth and accuracy of this material. We ask only that you watch and listen and make up your own minds. Now, if you feel a congressional investigation is warranted to get the facts about UFOs out to the American public, please call this 900 number. If you feel an investigation is not necessary, call this number. Bill Moore and Jamie Chandere have checked and verified Falcons and Condor's credentials. Peter Leyon also met Falcon and here's his statement. I met with a government intelligent agent with the code name of Falcon in 1983 with Jamie and Bill at the time that I was an executive producer of news for the CBS station in Los Angeles. And at the time we verified as authentic his credentials. And then again in 1987, we met again with Falcon and again verified credentials. I'm satisfied at this time that he is who he says he

1:04:47 is. The fact that I have proven my identity to you. I've showed you my credentials and verified my existence within the intelligence community. You also have some of my colleagues who have verified the same information. We asked Falcon where he found out so much about extraterrestrial biological entities or EBEs. This book or it's called the Bible within the MJ12 community contains historically everything that occurred from the Truman era up through the three aliens being guests of the United States government. Technological data gathered from the aliens. Medical history gathered from aliens that were found in the desert. Autopsy, information gathered from dead aliens found in the desert. And information obtained from the

1:05:48 extraterrestrials regarding their social structure and their information pertaining to the universe. Was there an additional source of information? Presently, as of the year 1988, there is one extraterrestrial being. He is a guest of the United States government, and he's remained hidden from public view. The yellow book is a book that was exclusively written by the second alien. The book relates to the aliens, planet, solar system, suns, the culture and society makeup on the planet, the social structure of the aliens and the aliens life among earthlings. What was most intriguing to me in my experience with the aliens is a I believe an octagon

1:06:53 shaped crystal which when held in the alien's hand and viewed by a second person displays pictures. These pictures could be can be of the alien's home planet or pictures of Earth many thousands of years ago. We asked where the EBEs came from. He was in the Zeta Reticuli star group. Now, Condor tells us about a deal our government made with the aliens. Um, from what he understands, an agreement between our US government and the And essentially the agreement uh says that uh we won't disclose your existence if uh you do not interfere in our society and uh we allow you to operate from the designated uh base here in the United States. It's in the state of Nevada in an area called Area 51 or

1:07:54 Greenland. The extraterrestrials have complete control of this base which is located in Nevada. My understanding is that three different aliens of the same species have resided within the United States from 1948 or 49 until present day. The first alien was captured in the New Mexican desert after its craft crashed. The alien, which was named Iba by the government, was kept in captivity for 3 years. We learned a great deal of information about the aliens, race, culture, and spacecraft. The second alien was a part of an exchange program. I don't recall what year that alien

1:08:56 visited. The third alien was also part of an exchange program and has been a guest of the United States government since 1982. We ask what they looked like. you know, a run-of-the-mill EB creature about uh 3 foot 4 to 3' 8 in Um, their eyes are extremely large, insect style. Uh, their eyes have a couple of different inner lids. The, uh, the days were extremely bright. Uh, probably twice to three times as bright as ours. And I think they have just a two uh openings where our nose would be. They have a small mouth. Uh they have no teeth as we know it. They have a hard gumlike uh area. Uh their internal organs are quite simple. They have a a

1:09:56 one organ which does the job of our heart and lungs. Their digestive system is is really simple. Their uh skin structure is extremely uh it's a very elastic skin and hard probably hardening from their sun. Uh they have some basic organs. Their brain is more complex than ours. It has a uh several different loes than ours have. Uh their eyes are where our eyes are controlled by the back of our head. Theirs is controlled by the front of the brain. Their hearing is quite better than ours, almost better than the dogs. Small areas. Uh their sexual organs are they have males and females. Their kidney and bladder is one organ. They excrete waste. They have another organ which I don't know if our scientists determined what it was for, but they believe is to transfer the solid waste and the liquid wastes. They have hands without thumbs. They have four fingers without any thumbs. Uh

1:10:59 their feet are whiplike, small woodlike. So many questions occur. Do they believe in a supreme being? What's their intelligence level? What's their average 350 to 400 Earth years. It's my understanding that the aliens have an IQ of over 200. They have a religion, but it's a universal religion. They believe in the universe as a supreme being. The aliens enjoy music, all types of music, but especially ancient Tibetan style music. We ask about their diet. They do eat vegetables. They like vegetables. And their favorite dish or snack is ice cream, especially Well, the next time you're in an ice cream parlor, just quietly notice who orders strawberry. Okay. As a wrap-up,

1:12:00 Falcon and Condor said to us, "I personally feel that this information should be presented to the public. There's only a small portion of the information that we've gathered from the extraterrestrials that should be safeguarded or classified." Condor also suggested he'd like to see a congressional hearing on the subject. Interestingly enough, he, Falcon, and a third source have agreed to meet with a senator's staff to discuss all of the information they claim to have concerning UFOs and aliens. From this meeting, a Senate investigation could ensue. Now, if this is true, tonight we're witnessing history in the making. A startling new revelation live from the USSR right after this. Stay with UFO Tell us again Sergey about the preliminary findings from Tunguska in Are you on the line sir? The Tanguska explosion which occured in 1908 still

1:13:02 attracts a tremendous amount of public attention. I traveled twice to the site of the explosion. It is in a very remote, very distant part of Siberia. And according to some recent findings, the most astonishing fact about Tunguska explosion is that actually there were two objects, two objects, I would say two UFOs. The first one had been seen early in the morning at approximately 8 a.m. and it was exploded. It exploded over the Tunguska forest and the second one had been seen in the afternoon. One can get the impression that the second object was looking for the first one. Yes. And Mike, by the way, why shouldn't we arrange a joint Soviet American expedition to the site of the explosion? I think that's a terrific idea, Sergey. I'm sure there

1:14:03 are many Americans who would like to join us. We'll talk further. Now, we're looking forward to the final reports from this latest expedition to Siberia. Thanks for the news flash, Sergey Bulansa, and thanks for opening a new channel of communication between the US and the USSR. Now, we've invited three people who are highly skeptical of UFO phenomena. We would like them to give you their point of view. Let's meet them. First, David Williamson, a 30-year veteran NASA senior staff member who is well known as the UFO point person at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. James Oberg who has written many books and articles about space and UFOs and lectures widely on related topics. And finally, Dr. Herbert Spiegel who heads the Colombia College of Physicians and Surgeons postgraduate program is in hypnosis and is the author of the book trance and treatment, the clinical uses of hypnosis. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Dr. Spiegel, you're the expert in hypnosis. What do you think of the technique of hypnotic Well, the hypnosis is uh accurately regarded as controlled imagination which

1:15:05 includes misperceptions as well. And what you can do with hypnosis is to intensify the um the memories that we have. But that also includes our inner feelings as well as our memories with the original distortions in the first place. But hypnosis does not at all enhance the accuracy of the original perception in the first place. Does not does not the question of commonalities. Does that mean anything? It's simply because we know that in our forensic work that too many misperceptions occur in the first place. I see. And uh if you now intensify it with the vivid uh recall of hypnosis, then all you do is exaggerating what you already started off uh with as a misperception. All right, sir. Mr. Williamson, what does NASA's point man on UFOs have to say in response to the material you've seen? Sort of interesting. The U official NASA position has been for 11 years that we will analyze legitimate materials

1:16:06 physically available to us given quick claims so that we can cut it apart and so forth. In those 11 years, we haven't had any physical evidence. What you're dealing here with here seems to be a phenomenon very real since Ezekiel all the way to to Florida. Yes. But it is not a physical phenomena that you can measure, that you can put your hands on, that you can bring to the laboratory. I don't know what it is. It's obviously real. You can't you can have some hoaxes, quite a lot of hoaxes as you saw tonight. But you also have a lot of people who know that they have felt something, experienced something. We don't know what it is. Keep an open mind and wait for physical evidence is probably the the best scientific advice you can get. In the meantime, look for ways to measure this thing. Very good. Mr. Oberg, what do you think about the evidence you've seen tonight? Well, I think it's some f fascinating material, Mike. The uh most interesting part is that the material as it was put together uh left out an awful lot as well. Material within the UFO community itself with a lot of controversy and skepticism among UFO believers about the MJ12

1:17:07 material about Gulf Breeze as an example. I'm glad to see that the Russians were brought into this because that really underscores what I think is happening in a lot of these reports, which is that people will see and interpret things in the sky as they um interpret them. And many times the government doesn't really mind that UFOs are seen as flying saucers. The case is discussed tonight, particularly the first case from the airliner 1984 at 4:10 a.m. turns out to have been, and it was seen by other people outside of Russia as well, a military rocket test up in the area of Placetses, which was a secret space center. This has happened so many times in the Soviet Union, they release official scientific reports from the Academy of Sciences claiming that things that people see which happen to be weapons tests, space weapons test for example, are UFOs. So, but so to call them flying saucers and to and to present that point of view is actually to take part in the cover up of their true nature, which is in some ways a very ironic uh feature. Now, in terms of whether or not these these are real UFOs, whether or not the MJ12 stories,

1:18:09 which seem to change every time we hear them from from Falcon, are true, I'm afraid we don't have a 900 number, but I suggest we people go out and do is go out and buy strawberry ice cream. If it's all gone, maybe the UFO guy will go Great. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here. Since we went on the air two hours ago, calls have been coming in from all over the country claiming to have experienced close encounters with UFOs. Uh here are the results. Of the people that called in uh 20% they said they had never had a experience. Of those who claimed to have had a close encounter of the first kind, do I have a number? 66% claim to have had a UFO experience of the close encounter of the first kind. Uh close encounter of the second kind. 5% make that claim. and 3% claim to have had a close encounter of the third kind. That's uh perfect. Uh close encounters of the fourth kind, 6%. Thus far in the program, we've had

1:19:11 uh how many% of our callers calling for a congressional investigation? 87% saying yes, congressional investigation. No, 13%. Now, remember, our telephones are active until 1:00 a.m. October 15th, Eastern Daylight Time throughout the United States and Canada at the nominal charge of a dollar. All information received from your phone calls will be forwarded to a proper investigational committee should one be set up in Congress here in Washington DC. It seems every man, woman, and child in America and the exciting wrap-up of UFO information concerning the government's role in UFOs. Please write to the address you see now. Welcome back to the final chapter of UFO coverup with our host Mike Frell. Thomas Jefferson said the government must never lie to the people. After all the sightings, observations, and testimonies presented here tonight, we are left with the uneasy question. Has our government been lying to us about UFOs? Are extraterrestrials here? Does

1:20:11 our government have UFOs hidden away in a warehouse? Or is it just some sort of misunderstanding? Or perhaps is it all a hoax, a sci-fi fantasy in the minds of overzealous space fans? This Air Force base here in Roswell, New Mexico was a center of a controversy back in 1947. at over 40 years.