Citizen Hearing 2013: Opening statements (Mitchell, Hellyer)

0:12 It's going to be an educational week for sure. And uh we are as uh uh Chairman uh what let's said, we're going to be sitting like we are in committee. And we're going to pattern what we're doing today after a formal congressional hearing. And uh First of all, we have with us Congresswoman Darlene Hooley. And we have uh Senator uh Gravel, Mike Gravel. We have uh Congresswoman Carolyn uh Mc- Kilpatrick. And we have Congressman Merrill Cook, Congressman Merrill Cook. And we are all retired. So and among us Among us uh we have 80 years or more experience, but 80 years just on the federal level. And uh Roscoe and I were classmates. We have 20 years each.

1:14 And I have to tell you it is our commitment today as if we were part of a uh hearing in the House of Representatives, is our commitment to listen through objective ears and to ask uh the kinds of questions that we think that the American people would like us to ask so that they uh can become better informed because uh obviously there's going to be uh a press on this. And uh we would like to make the public uh more aware and we would like uh to have a hearing that could lead possibly to legislation or policy making. So if we're objective, if we're business-like, and uh we we stick to the issue, I think we're going to have a very very interesting week. And uh Right now though, we get to swear in the first uh two witnesses. And we

2:17 I think Edgar Mitchell, Dr. Edgar Mitchell, uh will be brought in on Good morning, Dr. Mitchell. Good morning. I am a former astronaut. First to land on the moon on Apollo 14. and so I have a little bit of out of off-the-earth experience, but also I grew up uh near Roswell, New Mexico, a ranch And the uh so-called Roswell incident of occurred when I was a a senior in high school and getting ready to go off to college in the East. So and I had been interested in this subject uh for many years. But let me set up the basic credentials. For the first time in uh human history, our technology has shown us the uh height, huge uh universe, what I call it a multiverse,

3:18 is with billions and billions of galaxies, and galactic clusters, and many of them, and we know we've identified a few, many of them so-called uh that possibly could have living systems on them, uh living beings. And uh uh we have a history that I'm aware of, particularly starting with the Roswell incident, but uh even long before that, that we have been by aliens, uh visitors from different star systems and different planets. And of course, if we continue our endeavors, we will in due course be able to go outside our solar system as well. At the moment, our technology is not allowing us to do that. But in due course, we will be able to do that, I'm quite sure. And we must because our sun will only last a few more billion years. And we're

4:20 even uh doing things to it that cause it to be uh life on this planet to be unsustainable at the rate we're going by using up natural resources and so forth. And so we have to rethink about this whole issue of our being here on this planet at this point in time, and how do we continue our life here, and how do we continue uh uh being solid citizens of planet Earth and keeping our civilization going. And be able to leave our planet and uh go somewhere else and investigate somewhere else because we're not alone in the universe. They have been coming here for a long long time, it seems. The evidence would suggest that. Uh we have been having visitors for a long long time, perhaps hundreds, maybe even thousands of years. There are some that would even say that the pyramid pyramids both in Egypt and in uh South America, that the aliens aided us in

5:20 building those. And this that seems to have a reasonable ring to it. But any event, uh we're not alone in the universe, and we're only now beginning to get enough evidence through our our science and our understanding of the way the universe is put together to recognize we really are alone. And then we can in due course, just like others have, it appears, they come here, we go And so I think we'll have a lot of testimony today regarding that fact. And uh I urge you to listen to it. And let's open this up uh to the larger picture that and acknowledge, yes, we're not alone. We are They are here. We can't go there. And in due course, we will. And for the last I've been very interested in this for the last 16 or 17 years on the basis of speaking about it publicly. And uh since I went to the moon 40-some years ago, uh and my colleague Gordon Cooper also

6:24 had an incident uh when he was at Edwards Air Force Base as a duty uh the UFO land while he was on duty. So there's a number of us that have had these types of experiences to say, yes, we're not alone, we have been visited, and let's go forward in understanding this phenomenon. And I hope you have a good week, and I'll stay stay abreast with you as long as I can. Thank you. Good morning. I'm Paul Hellyer, former Minister of Defense of Canada, and a long-time participant in politics and governance. Over many decades of service to the Canadian people, I've come to understand and appreciate the importance of open, transparent and the power of truth as antidote to the many afflictions the

7:24 body politic is heir to. The true currency of the 21st century will not be gold or silver or a basket of currencies, however useful they may be. It will be trust. Without that commodity, progress and right action are undermined and delayed. There is only one way to regain trust. Find and tell the truth. Whether to your friends or family or to the citizens of nations, I believe this citizens hearing serves that purpose. And like my friend Edgar Mitchell, I say without equivocation, we are not alone in the cosmos. We have neighbors. We should try to get

8:24 to understand them and to cooperate with Thank you. As co-chair of this hearing, I'd like to make a brief statement. I think it was about 33 years ago I uh was camping in West Virginia on a mountain 4,000 ft I got up in the middle of the night and went out and uh I just couldn't believe what I saw. The stars looked so darn close. It looked like I could reach up and touch them. And there really was a Milky Way. I can't see it here. There's too much pollution. There's way too many lights here to see the Milky Way. We're just one star, a fairly mediocre star, in the Milky Way. If the Milky Way was was the United States, we're a fairly mediocre star somewhere in South And there are a million other galaxies out there, a billion perhaps, out there like ours. And you have to be very arrogant and very to believe that this You know, I'm a scientist. I got my PhD 66 years ago.

9:26 And you have to be very arrogant and presumptive to believe that this is the only place where life exists in a universe this large. So I'm really looking forward to the testimony today. Thank you all very much for being here. So I'd like to acknowledge we're running about 13 minutes late. If we could have uh Ms. Helm, Mr. Dolan, Mr. Friedman uh and Mr. Cameron come forward. And in a moment, I have the distinct honor of administering the oath. And gentlemen and Ms. Hall, um if you'd like to um repeat after me, I do hereby affirm I do hereby affirm that I will tell the truth and nothing but the truth and nothing but the truth to the members of this committee today. to the members of this committee today. Thank you. I believe we're scheduled to begin with Mr. Dolan. Uh esteemed members of the committee,

10:28 thank you for having me. I'm a researcher and historian on the matter of UFOs, particularly as they relate to um US national security policy. I just have a short statement here. The UFO problem has involved military personnel around the world for more than 60 years, and it is wrapped in secrecy. Because this subject is so widely ridiculed, it's important to stress why it's worthy of serious attention. Stories of strange objects in the sky actually go far back in time, but from the 1940s to our own era, military personnel from the United States and many other nations have encountered unidentified flying or on radar or both, sometimes at close These events happened not scores of times, but hundreds of times, perhaps thousands.

11:29 Sometimes the encounter was nothing more than a solid radar return of an object moving at an incomprehensible speed, performing impossible maneuvers. Sometimes it included the violation of sensitive airspace. Often it involved the dispatch of one or more aircraft to intercept the object. At times crew members have claimed to see a metallic disc-like object, sometimes with portholes, sometimes with lights, frequently engaged in what appeared to be intelligent evasive maneuvers. In a very few cases, it appears to have involved the military retrieval of a In a few others, it involved injury and even death to military personnel. And in a very large number of recorded instances, military personnel who encountered UFOs were adamant that they did not see a natural phenomenon. This is clearly a serious development,

12:31 and it has been treated as such by those groups charged with maintaining national The CIA, the NSA, and all branches of military intelligence have historically received UFO reports and discussed the matter as something of serious concern. And yet, the military and other branches of government have created the fiction for public consumption only that the UFO problem is nothing to be concerned about, certainly not the result of little green men. We are fortunate that starting in the 1970s, the US Freedom of Information Act began to help researchers learn some of the truth that lay behind the facade of We learned, for example, that some US military analysts initially feared that the Soviet Union might be behind the flying saucer wave of the 1940s and They studied this possibility, but rejected it.

13:32 They also rejected the possibility that these were secret American technology. And indeed, options quickly narrowed. Either this was something real and alien, or it was something conventional, but as yet unknown or unexplained. Already by the end of 1947, a contingent of analysts at the Air Technical Intelligence Center, ATIC, at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, believed that UFOs were And by the summer of 1948, that team prepared what they called an estimate of the situation, stating the extraterrestrial hypothesis. The response? The team was dispersed and Yet, thanks to FOIA and the courage of a few senior officials to go on the record, we have a collection of statements about UFOs that are so numerous as to be impossible to mention all of them here. But a few might give you an appropriate flavor of

14:34 what I mean. Here is one from General Robert B. Landry, Air Force aide to President Harry S. Truman. Landry says, in an oral history interview given about 40 years ago, "I was called one afternoon in 1948 to come to the Oval Office. The president wanted to see me. I was directed to report quarterly to the president after consulting with Central Intelligence people as to whether or not any UFO incidents received by them could be considered as having any strategic threatening Landry went on to say that he continued to brief President Truman in conjunction with the CIA quarterly for the rest of the Truman presidency. That's no less than 16 briefings. We might want to know why a man as busy as Harry, President Truman, was uh why he would take the time out of his schedule to have so many meetings about UFOs. And yet, we have no official

15:35 transcript or record of those briefings. This is a statement from a top secret 1948 Air Force Intelligence report called Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the US. "The frequency of reported sightings, the similarity in many of the characteristics attributed to the observed objects, and the quality of observers considered as a whole, support the contention that some type of flying object has been observed. The origin of the devices is not ascertainable." And uh just two more quotations here I want to give you. An Air Force Intelligence report from 1951 relating to an aerial encounter by a US fighter pilot. Object described as flat on top and bottom, and appearing from a front view to have round edges and slightly Quite a bit of detail there. No vapor trails or exhaust or visible means of propulsion. Described as traveling at tremendous speed.

16:37 And one more quote from the early years, this one from a former former head of the CIA, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, speaking in 1960. "Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about UFOs, but through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are Now, how much clearer a statement should responsible citizens, academicians, media, and political leadership require before demanding to get some reasonable answers as to what is going on behind the scenes in relation to the phenomenon of UFOs? Because the problem certainly did not end during the 1960s or 1970s or 1980s, but has continued to the present day. During the summer of 2002, just outside this city, over the town of Waldorf, Maryland, dozens of witnesses reported an

17:38 incredible scene. Multiple jet fighters chasing multiple large unknown objects that were of blue and orange coloration. All the witnesses, two of whom I personally, and several of whom spoke to national media, described the amazing performance and capability of these The Air Force itself admitted that it had scrambled F-16s to investigate unknowns, which it had also admitted it had tracked on at least one of these objects on radar. We also learned that the UFO simply disappeared from the radar. The Air Force conclusion was that it could have been, quote, "any number of Now, perhaps we might like to know precisely which things. What blue object can descend at an 80-degree angle, stop, reverse course, and accelerate away from two F-16 jets near the nation's capital in post-9/11 America?

18:39 Might be an interesting question to Over Chicago O'Hare's airport, in November 2006, same kind of situation. A dozen United Airline employees, including at least one pilot while on the ground, saw a hovering disc-shaped object below the clouds. It then accelerated away so fast that it punched a hole through the cloud. United ordered its employees to silence, but one of them reported the event After denials by United and the FAA, both agencies were forced to acknowledge that indeed those people had made UFO reports. And again, we might ask, what might this have been? Over one of the busiest airports in the world, and why the steadfast silence and These are only some of the better-known recent cases. There are, in fact, an overwhelming number of them. The two largest websites for collecting North American UFO reports, the National UFO Reporting Center and

19:40 the Mutual UFO Network, have a combined of well over 10,000 reports every year. Every year. Now, clearly many or most of these would turn out to be something prosaic if they were given an adequate investigation. But, go through some of these reports. Many of them are truly incredible, and many of them have indeed received follow-up investigation. They are unexplained, and at least by our conventional wisdom, unexplainable. The combination of astonishing performance, powerful statements from selected senior officials, and unremitting silence and dismissal by our political establishment point to a This is not merely the problem of cognitive dissonance. It is the problem of a political system in which the wheels have fallen off the It is imperative, in the name of science

20:41 and responsible public policy, that we get those wheels back on, and begin a genuine, open investigation of this phenomenon. We demand and deserve answers from responsible officials who ought to be in the know. And if they're not in the know, we all need to investigate and find out just who is. Thank you. My name is Grant Cameron. I am a private investigator. For the past 38 years, I have attempted to focus on what the highest levels of the US government, military, and intelligence agencies know about the UFO phenomena. I'm the director of the President's UFO As Steve Bassett mentioned, uh the Obama administration has come out with an official statement saying there is no ET

21:43 evidence for an interaction with ETs, and there is no cover-up. What I would like to do, based on my years of research, is present a few pieces of evidence which show that this statement, written by a low-level White House staffer, is ill-informed and not Uh Mr. Dolan pointed out that President uh Truman had been briefed for 5 years orally on the subject of UFOs that does not appear in the official record. I'd like to add that Truman on video is actually does make a statement stating, "Yes, we discussed it at every conference we had with the military. There were always things like that going on, flying saucers and other such In 1969, the US government officially shut down its official UFO investigation stating that there was no evidence that UFOs were extraterrestrial, and if and therefore they were out of

22:45 the business. If this were true, the government would have shut up and allowed the sub the subject to fade into history. This is not, however, what happened. Only 3 years after shutting down their program, the US Air Force, at the direction of the Secretary of the Air contacted two documentary film producers who signed an official film contract at the Pentagon to do a documentary on They were provided with a number of films and pictures, including a film of extraterrestrials landing at Holloman Air Force Base, of which they were using they used 8 seconds in the final production. They were given another film marked top that was never returned and is still in their possession. The documentary was funded with and they were asked not to source the funder of of of the money in the

23:46 A CIA agent was present through the entire production, and as Linda Howe can testify, she saw a letter to one of the producers from President Richard Nixon thanking him for his cooperation on the project. Former Senator Barry Goldwater wrote extensively on UFOs, such as night in 1975 when he wrote about his friend General Curtis LeMay, who refused him access in 1964 to the blue room at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, where where alien hardware and bodies were rumored to have been held. Goldwater wrote, "I made an effort to find out what was in that building at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and I was understandably denied this request. It is still classified above top secret." As chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Goldwater continued to answer UFO letters, stating in one letter, "This thing has gotten so highly

24:47 classified, it is impossible to get anything on it." In another letter, Goldwater wrote, "I have no idea who controls the flow of need to know, because frankly, I was told in such an emphatic way that it was none of my business that I've never tried to make it my business since." And finally, Goldwater wrote, "I have been interested in this subject for a long time, and I know that whatever the Air Force has on the subject is going to remain highly classified." Those waiting for the President to stand up and say ETs sh are here should know that that event occurred on June the 27th, 1981. Steven Spielberg stated that after the screening of ET the Extraterrestrial in the White House theater, Reagan, quote, "just stood up and looked around the room, almost like he was doing a head and he said, 'I want to thank you for bringing ET to the White House. We

25:48 really enjoyed your movie.' And then he looked around the room and he said, 'And there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true.'" And Spielberg added, "And he said it without smiling." If you check the files of the Bush Library, you'll find nothing on UFOs. if you look at my files, you will find an audio of President Bush in during the 1988 campaign being asked about UFOs, in which he says, "I know I know a fair bit." Likewise, I have a video of Vice President Dan Quayle stating, "The alien situation is very We literally spent some time looking at In April 2001, I asked Vice President Dick Cheney if he had been ever briefed on the subject of UFOs while he was on the Diane Rehm show here in Washington. Instead of Cheney stating that there

26:49 were no credible ET evidence, Cheney "If I had been briefed on that subject, it would probably be classified, and I wouldn't be talking about it." Even President Obama has said things that run contrary to the statement put out by his own White House. This might be because neither he nor anybody in his office saw the petition on ET question, despite the fact that over 12,000 people signed the petition addressed to the During a visit to Roswell, New Mexico in 2012, President Obama referred to the White House to to the Roswell crash "We're going to keep our secrets here." This raises the question, in light of the statement put out by his office that there is no ET cover-up, what secrets is President Obama referring to? Then, during a White House tour, President Obama anticipated a question that actor Will Smith's son, Jaden, wanted to ask about the reality of

27:51 When they arrived in the White House Situation Room, the President said to Jaden, "I know what you want to ask. You want to know about the aliens. I can neither confirm nor deny that extraterrestrials have visited the But, if they had, and if there had been a top secret meeting on the subject, it would have occurred in this very room." Then, there is the story of Area 51, covered by 19-time Emmy Award winning investigative reporter George Knapp, who has spent years covering the story. Knapp stated that he has over two dozen witnesses who tell bits and pieces of a story of a captured live alien and extraterrestrial spacecrafts that are being back-engineered on the Nevada test site. He has also revealed on in during that he had a discussion with Senator Howard Cannon shortly before his death,

28:52 and that Howard Cannon basically confirmed to him that he had talked to Goldwater, and the stories were true. Knapp stated that six of his witnesses were threatened, which succeeded them from stopping them from going on camera. in July 2012, Chase Brandon, a 42-year veteran of the CIA, was a guest of the two two million listeners of the overnight radio talk show hook show called Coast to Coast. His words on the ET cover-up were clear, as he referenced material he had seen at CIA headquarters. To quote Chase Brandon, "I absolutely know, as I sit here talking to you, that there was a craft beyond this world that crashed at Roswell, and that the military picked up the remains of not just a wreckage, but of cadavers. 100% in my heart and soul," said Brandon, "Roswell happened. There was a

29:53 craft and absolutely cadavers. I don't know where the stuff is, but I know that Roswell happened." Thank you. Thank you for inviting me here. As a retired nuclear physicist who has been studying the evidence about UFOs since 1958, and since 1967 has given well over 700 lectures in all 50 states, 10 Canadian provinces, and 18 other countries, I have reached four major conclusions. One, the evidence is overwhelming that Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, some underlined 10 times, some UFOs are really in spacecraft. Most are not. Don't care about them. Two, there is no doubt that a small number of people within governments, both in the United States and overseas,

30:55 have been actively covering up the truths about these visits. There really is a cosmic Watergate. Three, there are no good arguments against these conclusions, only people who haven't studied the relevant And four, flying saucer visitations and the cosmic Watergate represent the biggest story of the millennium. And I should say that I prefer the term flying saucer because all flying saucers are UFOs, very few UFOs are flying All great grandfathers are men, not all men are great grandfathers. I'm interested in the flying saucers, not the UFOs. The basis for these conclusions, A, there are at least five large-scale scientific studies which provide substantial evidence. These include Project Blue Book Special Report Number 14, the largest study ever done for the United States Air Force, covering more than 3,200 cases with more than 200 charts, tables, graphs, and

31:56 It is quality evaluation, cross comparison between unknowns and knowns. The official press release lied about the data. I'll document that in a minute. It is almost never referenced by UFO debunkers. Dr. Carl Sagan, we were classmates at the University of Chicago, claimed, "There are interesting UFO sightings that are not reliable. And reliable UFO sightings that are not interesting. But there are no cases that are both reliable and interesting." This statement was not backed up by reference to data, but is directly contradicted by the Blue Book Special Report 14 data. It was found that the more reliable the case, the more likely to be United States Air Force Secretary Donald in the very widely distributed press release when the 1955 study was flat out lied. It's a strong statement and I'm sorry to

32:57 make it, but it's true. He stated, "We believe that no objects such as those popularly described as flying saucers have overflown the United Even the unknown 3% could have been identified as conventional phenomena or illusions if more complete observational data had been available." The fact of the matter in the report that he was talking about is that the unknowns comprise 21 and 1/2% of the cases, completely separate from the 9.3% listed as insufficient The 3% number was a lie. Furthermore, a statistical comparison of the unknowns and knowns showed that the probability that the unknowns were just misknowns was less than 1%. It must further be noted that the press release did not give the title of the

33:57 or the company that did the work, Battelle Memorial Institute. If they'd given the title, surely some would have said, "Hey, what happened to reports 1 through 13? I'd never heard about them." The correct answer, had it been given, would have been that they were all classified. It's a very valuable source of information, this report. It's funny how the debunkers never talk about it. Another primary source of valuable data which should be of interest to you all are the congressional hearings of July 29th, 1968, which included testimony from 12 The most important paper was Dr. by Dr. James E. McDonald, Professor of Physics at the University of Arizona. He had talked to 500 witnesses, but he presented 41 outstanding cases, including multiple witness radar visual sightings, sightings by pilots, by astronomers, by meteorologists. He noted physical trace cases, of which

34:58 by by now more than 5,000 have been collected by Ted Phillips from 95 countries. They get dull. Same thing was happening all over the world. Saucers seen on the ground, it leaves, they find physical changes. Happens here, it happens there, it happens everywhere. 1/6 of those cases involved reports of small beings associated with the craft while it was on the ground. I was the youngest contributor to those and I think the only survivor since then to those hearings in 1968. And I was the only one without a PhD. That might tell you something. I'm not sure what. Uh the proceedings, incidentally, are still available online. One of the contributors was Dr. J. Allen Hynek, chairman of the astronomy department at Northwestern University, and for 20 years United States Air Force scientific consultant to Project Blue

36:00 His book, The UFO Experience, a scientific inquiry, should be required reading by anybody who's going to talk about flying saucers, especially negatively. According to a another source here, according to a special UFO subcommittee of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, world's largest group of space scientists, 30% of the 117 cases studied by the University of Colorado, government-sponsored study in the late '60s, and discussed in the Condon Report, Edward U. Condon, could not be And yet the headline said scientific study shows no UFOs. Totally untrue. There's a two-volume report called The UFO Evidence, which has loads of data, hundreds of cases that couldn't be There's also the COMETA report from which goes into numerous excellent officially involved cases in France.

37:04 There are a dozen PhD theses about UFOs. One of them, demonstrating how poor the press coverage has been. I haven't seen one about coverage by the scientific community or coverage by the political committee. That's another story. Anybody need a PhD thesis topic? There's two good ones. Also, a third one, the will not to believe on the part of scientists. It's a sickness, a disease, if you will, infecting people who think they know all there is to know and don't. A really bad example of bias and appeared in Astronomy magazine this May 2013. By Dr. Phil Plait. He does a blog, The Bad Astronomer. The title of the article, believe it or not, is The Science Behind UFOs. It's a cover story. He somehow manages to mention none of

38:06 the five large-scale scientific studies that I've just talked about, or any of the 5,000 physical trace cases, or any multiple witness radar visual cases, or abductions, nor advanced technology studies at national labs and in industry showing trips to nearby stars in reasonable round trip times using fusion propulsion are feasible. I worked on fusion back in the early '60s. And to give you a frame of reference, uh every star in the universe or multiverse produces its energy by nuclear fusion. That's what H-bombs are all about. And a good demonstration of the atom and the UFO together, if you will, is that in a very short period we managed to go from a 10-ton blockbuster, World War II, 1945, took a big B-29 to carry it. That was in 1944. In 1945, the first

39:08 15,000 tons of TNT, not 10. Seven years later, which is nothing, cost a lot of money, we set off the first fusion device, an H-bomb, called Mike, incidentally. it released the energy of 10 million tons of TNT. So, you go from 10 to 15,000 to 10 million tons. And the Russians sent off one that was 50 million tons of TNT. The point is we know how to I to the stars if we want to spend the money. I'm not saying it's the ultimate I'm saying scientific progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable The future is not an extrapolation of the past. You have to change how you do things. you know, what gets to me having worked fusion propulsion, fission propulsion,

40:10 nuclear reactors for space applications and all the rest of this is that we tend to forget if you make enough stupid assumptions, you can prove almost anything is One quick example, one astronomer in he was fed up with all the science fiction stuff about going to the moon. That was nonsense, he said. So, he published a scientific in quotes paper calculating the required initial launch weight of a rocket able to get a man to the moon and back. Legitimate question, how big is it going to be? Pages of equations, he concluded it have to weigh a million million tons. Uh he was off by a factor of 300 Proving if you make enough stupid assumptions, you can prove anything is Uh so, we have reason to be very careful when somebody says something is I have a whole book of

41:12 It's impossible, isn't it? Was going to be the title, but uh science was wrong is what the publisher decided on. I like the first one better, but anyway. Let's look at another progression, not only in bombs. Ferdinand Magellan's ship, he didn't make it, but his ship did, went around the planet in 3 years in 1523. 3 years. 3 years before the master, might say. Science fiction writers had going around the world in 80 days in the 18th 19th century. The space station goes around the world in 19 minutes. Progress comes from doing things A second problem I found, I worked under security for 14 years for major companies like GE, GM, Westinghouse.

42:12 McDonnell Douglas, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics. I set a record for working on canceled government-sponsored research and development program, not intentionally, you understand. Another one of the false myths is that governments can't keep secrets. Two astronomers have demonstrated this, Dr. Seth Shostak of the SETI Institute, you know, S E T I. That stands for silly effort to investigate, incidentally. That's another story and which I've written about in the book. Said you can prove that the government can't keep secrets by how badly FEMA failed up with Katrina and how poorly the post office is Now, if you can see a quite a connection between either of those things and governments keeping secrets, I sure can't. He didn't mention the CIA, the DIA, the NRO, the NSA and all those other alphabet soup agencies.

43:13 Another great astronomer, Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson, head of Hayden Planetarium, he said the proof that governments can't keep secrets is shown by how much we know President Clinton's genitalia. Now, if you can figure that one out, better than I am. the proof and I'll show some of this in my lecture Tuesday night uh about government cover-up. It's not just an idle concept. If you wish, you can get a hold of 156 top secret umbra NSA UFO documents. It's not They're not very interesting because all you can read is one sentence per page. Everything else is whited out, not blacked out. They said that was too impressive on television when I used They told me this. the reason is everything else is sources

44:13 and methods. 98% sources and methods and 2% UFOs, but it's filed under UFOs. Come on. That makes no sense. Uh you can get a bunch of CIA and I'll show some of these, too. Blacked out UFO documents. So, highly redacted that you can read about six words per page. And my favorite thing and it took me uh 3 years to get this was one of the CIA UFO documents that says on the top deny in toto. They couldn't find six lousy words to Something's wrong here. I I have to tell you uh 1 minute, okay. We I won't tell you. Maybe I'll tell you that Tuesday night. Uh one more thing. Air Force General Carroll Bolender stated that UFO reports which could affect national security He was asked to look about

45:14 what we should do about Project Blue part of the Blue Book system. UFO reports which could affect national security are not part of the Blue Book Incredible statement. I located him. I talked to him on the phone. He verified there are two separate reporting channels. You never heard that from the Air Force. His job was to decide what to do about Project Blue Book and it was canceled because of this memo. But the public never heard that he said reports which could affect national are not part of the Blue Book system. People are surprised, just one more sentence here, two sentences. I've won several debates on UFOs. Uh I've only had 11 hecklers in over 700 It's past time for the press, scientific and political communities to do their

46:17 And I should add at least three UFO crashes have occurred. You'll hear more about those later in these hearings. Thank you very Chairman Bartlett and distinguished citizen hearing on disclosure panelists and my hearing My name is Linda Moulton Howe. I grew up in Boise, Idaho where my father, Chet Moulton, was director of One of his friends was Kenneth Arnold, who reported the unidentified flying objects over Mount Rainier in June of And a local reporter then coined the phrase UFO, unidentified flying objects. I remember my father dismissed the idea of extraterrestrials altogether and that

47:17 is the bias with which I grew up. I attended the University of Colorado in Boulder when I earned a laude Bachelor of Arts in English literature. And I went on to Stanford University in California to earn a master's degree in communication producing documentary films for the Stanford Medical Center. My master's thesis film was about the Stanford Linear Accelerator's first efforts to have computers analyze subatomic particle bombardments. From Stanford, I went to TV news at KNBC in Los Angeles where my beat was environment and medicine. Later, I was honored at WCVB in Boston as a producer sharing the station's Peabody Award for science and medical programming excellence. Then I became director of special projects at the Denver CBS affiliate

48:18 I produced, wrote, directed, edited and reported a dozen TV documentaries about several live uh issues in the Colorado area and produced studio shows about science, medical and environmental that earned three regional Emmys, one national Emmy nomination and several other documentary film awards. I stress this only to say that when people address the mainstream media and those that are professionals not paying attention to this very important issue, that is not true. Many of us have tried. One of my documentaries was an investigation of the strange, bloodless, trackless mutilations of animals ranging from cattle and horses to goats, sheep, pigs and rabbits and even wild animals such as deer, elk and a marmot. Many of you may not know that the United States Forestry Department for decades has had photographs. I've seen them with

49:20 my own eyes of deer and elk with the ear, the eye, the tongue, the jaw flesh, the genitals and the rectum cord out, all bloodless, but that is also kept as a top secret unless a reporter like myself ends up getting a leak from somebody who is inside the Forestry Department and shows me the photos. Now, these mutilations, at the time that I was in Colorado in 1979, had been appearing in a series of repeated cycles since the early And I came to learn that they were not confined to Colorado, but they were all over the United States, Canada, and other parts of the world. The first research interview that I did for that animal mutilation documentary was with former Logan County Sheriff Tex He told me bluntly on my first meeting with him, {quote} the perpetrators of animal mutilations

50:22 are creatures from outer space. {close But he would not go on the record in front of a camera and say those words for a public to see. He said, "You will have to get somebody else to tell you that truth." And in fact, a few ranchers told me about beams of light from round or glowing objects in the sky that they had seen with their own eyes pick up cattle from a pasture or lower an animal to a pasture, dead with the same bloodless The beam transport would explain why there are no tracks, not even the animals' own tracks around bodies that are found on dusty pastures that have no grass. The animals are found in what is equivalent to face powder with no tracks around a 2,000-lb or 1,800-lb animal that has an ear, eye, tongue, jaw

51:26 flesh, genitals, and rectum removed without any blood. The documentary that I produced, A Strange Harvest, was awarded a regional Home Box Office in New York City later contacted me to follow up on A Strange Harvest with an hour special for HBO with a working title, UFOs: The ET A contract was signed, and New York attorney Peter Gersten who filed the first Freedom of Information Request back at the end of the 1970s for information about UFOs and his filing went to the CIA the NSA the DIA, the NRO and other military offices. He arranged for me to have a meeting at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque. Mr. Gersten had received correspondence from an agent at the US Air Force Office of Special Investigations

52:27 about a dramatic landing of a disc and humanoid entities at Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota. I was to go to a meeting at Kirtland Air Force Base and get the names, addresses, and phone numbers of some of the eyewitnesses of an exchange between our military security and something from this landed disc. But instead the agent took out of a desk drawer a doc pages, a document of sorts, and handed it them to me saying, "My superiors have asked me to show this to you. You can read it. You can ask me questions, but you cannot have this paper." And ordered me to sit in the middle of the room in order to read the document that he was handing me. Later, I learned that I had been both videotaped, audiotaped, and photographed sitting in that chair reading that

53:28 briefing paper, and the responses and questions that I had to the AFOSI agent at the Kirtland AFOSI office that day, April 9th, 1983. The document had a title all caps on the front page, {quote} Briefing Paper for the President of the United States on the subject of Unidentified Aerial Craft. And in this document, the phrase Unidentified Aerial Vehicles was also used, UACs and UAVs instead of UFOs. The document gave a history of the US history of retrieval of crashed or landed craft in Roswell Aztec and Magdalena, New Mexico Northern Arizona and Northern Mexico south of Laredo, and a second series of one or more crashes in the Roswell area in 1949. The alleged presidential briefing paper also described information from a live

54:31 extraterrestrial biological entity the acronym is EBE, EBE taken from a crash site near Roswell, New Mexico in 1949 two years after the historically famous July crashes of not discs, but my understanding is wedge-shaped craft that contained small humanoid bodies both dead and alive. I was told that one of the first scientists brought in on autopsies of dead alien bodies was a herpetologist who studies snakes and reptiles. The skin and eyes of the non-humans were described as scaled like a snake's body, and the eyes had vertical slit pupils beneath dark protective lenses. Since April 9th, 1983 I have witnesses and physical evidence that support that alleged presidential

55:34 briefing paper shown to me at Kirtland Air Force Base, and I have been reporting about the hardest facts and evidence that I have been able to muster as an investigative reporter since then for television, for radio, and for books that I have done. Today, on April 29th, 2013 30 years later, as a long-time TV producer and investigative reporter who produces the science and environment website earthfiles.com and also reports monthly for Premiere Radio Networks' broadcast of Coast to Coast AM in Los Angeles I can before you today assert that the pressure of facts accumulated from military and intelligent eyewitnesses from ranchers and pathologists, from pilots and astronauts, from fellow human experiencers in the UFO abduction syndrome and from leaks by scientists

56:35 and computer experts who have worked on back-engineering extraterrestrial technologies extracted from non-human craft there is no doubt that the United States government since World War II and the FDR and Truman administrations has known about the extraterrestrial interactions with Earth and that their policies of denial in the alleged interest of national security are still in effect. My greatest challenge as a journalist is to get on the record what I am told by military and intelligence agents and other eyewitnesses on the record. National security in what is supposed to be a democratic government of, for, and by the people is not served by lies and secrecy. Every American and the whole world deserves the truth about non-humans past, present, and future interacting with this planet. Thank you.

57:46 If I've done the time calculations correctly, we now have about 5 to 6 minutes for each of the six members of the committee to engage in questions with the panelists. As is my Kasich and Massa co-chair, I will reserve my questions till the end. I've always done that in the Congress. If my questions have been asked by my colleagues, I will simply thank the So so uh Mr. Dolan I have a question. I wrote it. Personal experience, have you had personal experience in uh this regard? I I don't really know if any personal experience I've had is is particularly noteworthy. On two occasions in my life, I saw what I think might be vaguely considered a UFO. Um most interesting, many years ago with my son who was a small boy

58:48 um I was holding his hand in in a bright blue uh perfectly blue sky, I saw an object that was quite unusual. Uh brighter than anything I'd ever seen in the sky other than the sun, and um he was very small. He watched me staring at this thing, silent, wondering, "What happened to Dad?" Mhm. And I turned uh to reassure him for one moment, and and I looked back literally 1 second later, and the thing was gone. I have no idea what it was. Uh that's really never been my motivation for studying this. I um fell into this topic about 20 years ago uh while doing uh dissertation work on US national security circa 1950, and I just stumbled into the topic of UFOs, I guess you could call it an obsession ever since. So so uh why do you think that they're I mean I know it's opinion so we'll get this. Why the steadfast silence and denial? What

59:51 I I I think the implications are are vastly very profound. If we try to rewind the clock 60 plus years back to the 1940s and just imagine just pretend for the moment that it actually happened because many of us I think it did that an event say at Roswell happened or maybe elsewhere or other types of grave uh violations of airspace were going on. You think back to the very post World War era the world was in a state of uh just flat on its back trying to get back there millions of homeless people around the world people on the brink of starvation in the early Cold War. It was not a stable time and uh one would have to assume the last thing any president would be interested in doing would be to say to the world well we have this other phenomenon here too. We don't know who these people are. We don't really know if they're friendly or hostile. How can you tell the world that uh you have this under control when you yourself don't really know the full implications of what this is?

1:00:52 So I think the logical thing that would have been done and in particular if anything was recovered because this is key. If uh one of your top scientists or generals approaches you and says sir we've recovered this exotic technology that's not from our civilization then if you tell the world you have it now you've got the specter of the Soviet Union. It becomes very difficult not to share this technology. The United States did not want to share share atomic technology in 1947. Uh clearly why would they want to share something as exotic as ET technology or Well okay but this is the 21st century now. Right. So what I I think what happened is simply that secrecy becomes secret becomes profitable. It becomes it develops its own reason to Uh it it develops its own uh kind of logic and I also think that much of it is sort of gone away from formal government channels and uh seems to become increasingly privatized.

1:01:53 So um do I have time any more time? Okay. Okay one more quick question. Uh um Mr. Cameron six witnesses threatened. How were they And who threatened them? Um I'll give you I'll give you an example of a couple of the witnesses. Um one witness was uh a woman who was a um uh steno for a military contractor who had been involved in discussions when it appears material was being moved from Wright-Patterson Air Force Base to Area 51. She was in on these meetings and um she had agreed to go on camera with George Knapp after the story started to break in 1989. She was visited by two uh officers the same day she was going to go on camera and they said we just want to remind you you have a security clearance you're still under oath. We know that you and your daughter travel back and forth between Las Vegas and uh Los Angeles. There's a lot of desert out there. We uh would not want to have

1:02:55 something happen in the desert. Uh George Knapp told me personally this woman is so scared that 20 years later she still will not talk about it. Uh they had witnesses at Nellis Air Force Base the golf instructor at Nellis Air Force Base the golf pro the guy who did the taxes for the generals. They'd got to know all the generals and had been told the stories about the fact that the crafts were at Area 51. This is all for true. Uh one of the key witnesses is a guy by name of uh Alfred O'Donnell who uh the Appropriations Committee at Congress actually tried to talk to this guy. He was one of the highest ranking people at Area 51. George Knapp uh had a number of witnesses and he figured that he wanted to track down this Alfred O'Donnell. Figured if anybody knew if the Area 51 crash saucer stories were true it'd be Alfred O'Donnell. He got to know him. Uh he got to be sort of friends and he said he basically stalked this guy cuz this guy would know and basically went to the guy's house. He's an expert on nuclear weapons from 1947 on wired a lot of the first nuclear

1:03:57 weapons and he was showing him test site photographs from the nuclear stuff and then he closed the book he said you didn't come here to talk about that did you? And George said no I didn't come here to talk about that. He said you came here to talk about UFOs didn't you? And George said yeah that's that's why I'd like to know about it. And he said well and George said it took six months to get this guy to talk and the guy bit by piece. He wasn't allowed to tape. He wasn't allowed to take notes and in the end he basically said yes it's true. Area 51 we have the uh the saucers there and George said aren't you afraid that um you would be you the story would get out? He said no we were afraid it would get out. He said what you mean you had an alien that came all this way you kept it captive? He said we we didn't know what to do with it. We couldn't communicate with it. That is one of the highest level guys at the Area 51 site is still alive and uh a man who knows the whole story. Thank you Ms. Colfaidrick. Um a few things. Thank you very much for your testimony. Very very good very

1:04:58 good. Mr. Friedman you were going to answer or add something to what Congressman Woolsey said. I'll give you that opportunity for a minute of my time if you'd like. Okay. Uh I was going to recite six reasons for Probably can't do six in a minute. Give me a minute. Uh sure you can. You want to figure out how the saucers work? You worry about the other guy figuring out how the saucers work. You worry about it if an announcement would be made that the younger generation would push for an earthling orientation if we're told the planet's being visited. No government including ours wants that. We have the problem of Pat Robertson saying uh all the UFO stuff is the work of the devil. Uh and all the intelligent life in the universe is here on planet Earth. I take issue with that. Uh finally we have uh two special things. If they're coming here some people say it's going to upset our whole technology. They've got things that'll get rid of the oil industry and car industry plane industry economic chaos. Reclaiming my time. Thank you sir. Thank

1:06:00 you very much. Uh Mr. Cameron you mentioned that you are and I'm I'm assuming it's currently the president's uh director of the president's UFO website. Are you are you currently that? Yes. And that means for President Obama? No. I have a a I have a website that basically my my experience was I had a Uh everybody was interested but I basically wanted to find out who knew what was going on. I went up the chain of command figured the president's the most powerful guy. This is one of the most important subjects. What does the president know? So what I've done I have a website that accumulates all the stories of what the various presidents have said rumored stories and sightings. So that's what I've done. I have the story a site that deals with the presidents and the subject of UFOs. Okay so that's what I wanted to explain that first of all. So then does any of the presidents and what year did you establish that? When did was that established the website? Uh I get goes back about 15 years. Okay so then the presidents later the three

1:07:00 or four President Clinton President Bush one and two. I I have the stories from all the And do they acknowledge the website and have given you any support or is just like who you can't talk about it? What's I I've gotten no no interaction with the White House side. They have they have been on the site a few times but no interaction. So so it's for information for people of the world to access. For the public because there's a lot of rumored stories and I don't really say this is true that's not true. There's a lot of rumored stories about various presidents who have seen UFOs what they've said about UFOs and basically I just put it down so everybody can look at it. Okay that's good information we need that. Thank you ma'am. It's always one woman that comes through for everything that we do. So we thank you for yours a different point of view and all of that as well. What do you do with all that information? You've seen it you've read it in the in the middle of a room and photographed and all of that. What do you what do you do? I mean everybody becomes we got nuclear scientists for and all of that at the table. Are you frustrated? I mean what are we going to do with this? It's a world phenomena. Um

1:08:00 you all know better than I. We're kind of neophytes here except for the scientists here. I mean what do what do you do with it? Things like we're doing today and urge the Congress since 1968 has not had a hearing to do something else about it in the science committee that they did some 40 plus years ago. My beat has always been science environment and medicine and it never And it was getting into the animal mutilations and having the shock of law enforcement tell me that the perpetrators were creatures from outer space. That was quite stunning. I did feel like I was Alice in Wonderland going through a mirror into a completely different reality than what we live in our 9-to-5 daily lives. I produced the documentary that had a large broadcast in Colorado and the surrounding states in 1980 May 25th 1980 called the Strange Harvest. And after that as a professional working

1:09:03 as director of special projects at the CBS station I went on to do astronaut training in Colorado Martin Marietta and a thousand other subjects over the last 30 some years. So you are documented. You are obviously people call on you so you're verified. Uh the by the way the couple of the uh documentaries that you mentioned are they available for our committee to each of us? Yes, all of my work is at my news website earthfiles.com. It's always there. It's always available. I've done four books, several documentaries of which two are Which one or two would you give us? We can't read 10. and strange harvest 1993. What's that And those are the videos. I would give you the books, too. That's an alien harvest, glimpses of other realities volume one and two Okay. and mysterious googled your name, we'd see all of that perhaps, right? Yes. Okay. earthfiles.com And the only reason I'm rushing cuz 5 minutes goes quickly. I

1:10:04 don't know if I'm out of time or 30 seconds 30 seconds. Thank you for Thank you. We're waiting for an answer with the next witness. Senator Gravel With all due respect, let me correct I pronounce it within my family Gravel. Gravel It's a French name. Thank you. I want to associate my thoughts with the chairman Bartlett when he made the statement that it's the height of human arrogance to think that we are the only sentient human beings in the galaxies of the that that can that can think. That that's that's human arrogance at its worst. What I'm struck with with the testimony of all four of you and of course the readings that we had with in pre pre preparing for this hearing

1:11:05 is the fact of secrecy itself. You know, why why do we need this secrecy? And I'm asking this question to all four of you. What threats do you think exist to the national security that warrants this kind of security this kind of an of an approach? Please. I I started to say before I can see six reasons for our government and other governments to keep things First, you want to figure out how they work. They make wonderful weapons delivery and defense systems. And with the Cold War going on, if you do have wreckage and you want to figure out something, you're not going to want to tell your enemies. The second problem is what if they figure out how they work before you do? You don't want them to know you know they know. Weapon, counter weapon, counter counter weapon. We've been playing this game a long time. The third problem is if there weren't an I say by highly trusted individuals, it's a little hard to find them around

1:12:06 the planet, but my favorite odd couple is the Pope and the Queen. They're about the same age or they were until recently If they were to make an announcement that indeed UFOs are visiting, the planet's being visited. What would happen? Church attendance would go up, mental hospital admissions would go up, the stock market would go down. But I think based on 600 college lectures that the younger generation which unlike me and probably you wasn't alive when there wasn't a space program. There was strong sentiment against space travel back not too many years ago. The younger generation would push for an earthling orientation. Let's face it from an alien viewpoint, we are all earthlings, Terrans as the science fiction writers would say. I know of no government on this planet that wants its people to owe their allegiance to the planet instead of that individual government. As far as I can tell, nationalism is the only game in There are some religious problems, extremists who say

1:13:07 we're the only intelligent life in the universe and their followers don't want any part of visitors from outer space. He can't be. Planet was created in 4004 BC instead of 4 billion and 4 A final thing I have seven times heard of cases in which pilots were scrambled to chase UFOs. There was a regulation issued, shoot them down if they don't land when instructed to do so when seven pilots didn't come back. These were quiet discussions. These were not big public things. And if I've heard seven, there are a lot more cases like that. There were 200 fatal military plane crashes between 1951 and 56 including where the pilots had over 100 missions in Korea where there were MIGs trying to shoot them down. That's a pretty good pilot to survive that. Comes back to the

1:14:07 United States, no MIGs and his plane as the New York Times said or disappeared. Two strange terms to use in this no families were told anything about And it may come as it won't come as a shock to you, but there are 166, excuse me, Air Force guys on board reconnaissance planes that were tickling North Korea, Russia and China right after the war. See how quickly the radar came on what frequency they used and all that sort of stuff. 166 wind up in planes that were shot down. Not one word in public about that. Families were not told until 2001 where a meeting was called and the medals were given out and an explanation was given. I say that only because a lot of people think, well, certainly they would have told the families of seven planes. that's an area of concern, I think, to

1:15:10 admit that we can't do anything about these guys. Powerlessness is not something that attracts people to May I May I add a a very quick follow-up and not taking a lot of time. I mentioned I talked earlier about why I think that the possession of certain radical technology would have initiated some of the secrecy. Also, I think need to maintain some level of social control not knowing what these other beings were at least in the early years. But I think what happens is once you a secret goes on for for long enough, it becomes a real nightmare to kind of contain. I can only imagine the difficulty that President Obama would face if he were somehow to make this announcement. I mean really, if he were to to if something something were to force him to make an admission that yes, UFOs apparently at least some of them are real. What does he then say at this press conference? Um I know what he'd like to say, which is, well, thanks everyone. I'm going on a vacation for about 6 months because

1:16:10 there are a lot of follow-up questions that would be frankly very uncomfortable for him to deal with. I think one of the questions that most responsible journalists would want to ask is, how on earth were you guys able to keep this secret for over 60 years? How did you do it? And the implications for getting into that whole issue are are a nightmare because if you're starting to deal with has there been some level of control or you know, over the mainstream major media, academic community? In fact, any many off-the-shelf academic studies that intelligence community influence over our major journalism and over our major academic communities is not big secret. It's a long-standing relationship. But there would be some very deep questions to ask about that about the nature of special access programs and unacknowledged special access programs and the primordial black budget. All of these would now become the target of citizen inquiry.

1:17:12 And I believe firmly that an admission on this topic in addition to all of the and existential issues that it raises also gets into just some nasty concrete political issues that I don't think any presidential administration would want to have to deal with. And I could add to that from from leaked sources military and intel that I have encountered in my career there is a complexity that as you go deeper beyond lights in the sky craft a government interest in back engineering technology. There is testimony from for example someone who had worked at Wright-Patterson in the medical who has told me this is a historic fact as far as I know

1:18:17 that on one of the first autopsies that were done from one of the crashes in Roswell in 1947 and that was not the beginning. We had been retrieving craft and bodies from at least 1941 in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. But in terms of Roswell, one of the bodies when the surgeon took a scalpel to start a T or a Y section on the the report was, this is not tissue. It was fabric. And that in 1947 our government was discovering that they weren't probably dealing with the prime intelligence that was behind the craft, that they were dealing with something that would fall into the area of androidism. Today we have drones that are overflying the world. Back in 1947 our government came to understand that some of the bodies that they were taking from these craft were not even biological tissue as we

1:19:19 understand it. And then you combine that with a sentence that I read in the alleged briefing paper that I was shown at Kirtland Air Force Base in the FOSI office. The quote, which has never left my mind, "These extraterrestrial biological entities manipulated DNA in already evolving primates to create Homo sapien." Close quote. Then that suggests that the relationship what is in the skies, on the ground, underground, and interacting with humans and animals and plant life on this planet, as one man working for the DIA in retirement told me, "Linda, we are convinced that the intelligence interacting with this planet has been here for more than 270 million years, predating the dinosaurs." If the size and the scope of this is that large, and if our government began to stumble onto these facts piece by piece in World War II and after,

1:20:20 then I can understand why President Truman and Churchill and Eisenhower and those that group of people would have said, "Let's wait two generations until we find out what we're dealing with." And what makes me nervous and what bothers me is why in 2013 is the policy of denial not only in effect, but the people that I am talking to on the phone have visits by somebody from the government saying, "You are not to talk to Linda Moulton Howe ever again." Something is very wrong in the underbelly of this country that I think is related directly to a policy of denial from World War II about the fact that extraterrestrial biological entities, to use our government's own phrase in its own alleged documents, are interacting with this planet, have

1:21:21 been for centuries, and that there is an intimate relationship between what we and what they made, and that might explain why there's no wholesale evidence anywhere that the non-humans want to kill humans. They want, it appears from my point of view as an investigative reporter talking with so many people, that there is an ongoing research about what is happening on this planet and the surface life on Earth. How much time do I have left, sir? We're now running about 10 minutes late, Mr. Chairman. Pardon me? Yes, I understand that the time is slipping away. Several of my questions have been asked. I hope that that's true for the next two witnesses so that their question period may be uh shorter. Uh Congressman Cook. I would like to claim my 5 minutes, Chairman, if that's all right.

1:22:21 I'd like to ask uh Grant Cameron maybe the first question. And if the others have a comment, uh be very happy to take those, too, and uh Mr. Cameron, uh take a minute, but the others maybe 10 seconds, uh if they have something to add. Uh I think you're the one that talked about 5 years of hearings for President Uh and briefings, yes. Yeah. And uh many uh and well, I know that Mr. Dolan also mentioned this. I guess 16 different Did you say 16 different? We figure between 16 and 20 briefings. Okay. Uh is it possible the Truman administration was concerned at the time uh more about either the Soviet Union, which you did mention, I think, Mr. Dolan, Yeah. or Nazi Germany as a source of some of the unidentified flying maneuvers they were watching and and reporting on and and being very concerned about? I I think it's it's basically the minute

1:23:21 they looked at the Roswell crash, if that was the first crash, they saw technology. It's classified. End of game. This is You're not giving this to the Soviets. You're not giving it to the Chinese. This is our type type of technology. Uh on Thursday, I'll refer to a a Canadian government document 1950 where the Canadians are went to the United States, talked to American officials, and one of the things that they were told is that mental phenomena was involved with the saucers. So, there's a lot of technology here, and it's you just have to think, are you going to give the technology that you may hear this week at at at this session, are you going to give it to Al-Qaeda, are you going to give it to the Chinese? To me, it was simple that Truman and the people around Truman saw technology. We need this. This is unbelievable technology, and whoever gets this technology rules the world. We're not giving it away. It's classified. End of the story. And that's how it is started, and that's how it's been maintained. Let me just add, sir, to answer your question relating to the Soviets and Nazis and so forth. In the early uh

1:24:23 era of this, these types of questions were being asked. Absolutely were. Uh the question is cuz you have different levels of security. I mean, in the declassified documents that we have, uh really the the top secret and above, we have very few of those. So, the declassified documents that are available to citizens are of the level of secret and confidential and restricted, lower levels. They're still Uh but they're not typically very few that are actually of top secret. Um And I think that this is significant what has come to us are are some lower level classified debates over the the nature of these. And many of those did focus on Did the Soviets create a flying saucer with their cache of German scientists? Did we do this? In those documents, I have seen no significant evidence to point to the Soviets or our own German scientists. Okay, before I invite uh maybe 15 seconds from both uh Mr. Freeman and Miss Howe,

1:25:24 could you also comment on on the testimony here that hasn't really said a whole lot. It was mentioned briefly, but a whole lot about sightings before the 1940s, before the Second World War. I mean, did we I know you mentioned that this is there've been there've been credible sightings for many, many years before, but we really don't get a whole lot of interest on the part of an administration until the '40s. Now, doesn't that add a little bit of question in terms of whether what we've just been talking about I can add might have been a real concern for for the number of hearings being held? I can add one thing. What happened in July of 1945, we tested a bomb, White Sands, and then we dropped two in August on And I believe that that action, which was a nuclear event,

1:26:25 became a focus to this intelligence, and therefore that's how the government became so intensely aware. Yeah. Can I Can I add Sure. I have done the presidents. I spent a lot of time trying to find stories of UFOs back in history through presidents. It starts in Roosevelt's day. It ties into the atomic bomb. If you go through presidential history, you presidents are watched very closely. All their records are kept. I can find nothing before Roosevelt. So, this is tied This is tied into the Okay, but you're not saying, Mr. Cameron, are you or or any of you saying that uh President Wilson would have never been interested in phenomena that might involve extraterrestrial? I think that the difference is that um we really only in our own society developed much of a capability of detecting them. I mean, in World War II, we get radar. So, we develop electronic means of detection. And for the first time ever, have a lot of people in the in the air. So, I think in in earlier times, it's not that this phenomenon

1:27:26 didn't happen, but there were fewer stories and not really in front row center of our consciousness. By the end World War II, there were three things that told our visitors from out there that soon we'd be going out there, which would scare the heck out of them because we're such a primitive society. Atomic bombs, powerful rockets used to kill, not to deliver the mail as some people said they would, and powerful radar, the beginning of the electronics revolution. The only place in the world in July 1947 where you could check out all three of those was southeastern New Mexico, which is where Roswell is. I'm going to claim just the last 30 seconds if I can, too. And again, if you'll take just maybe a quick yes or no. In your views, is it possible that our if if there indeed is such thing as extraterrestrial unidentified flying objects,

1:28:26 that they would be more likely to be artificial intelligence instead of normal intelligence, given time scales of travel? Nearest star, what, two to three light-years away, for example. I think I think artificial intelligence is extremely valid hypothesis. I've entertained it for many years. I think they would be the product of an advanced I mean, we are we're less than a generation away from having our computers talking to us and claiming possibly to be sentient themselves. This is what AI theorists, and they're all mainstream people. Uh it's a very common belief, so I have to assume that um some other civilization will have gotten to that point. And a confirmed physicist working on ring lasers at Wright-Patterson told me uh in the 1990s that he had firsthand knowledge about the extraterrestrial story, and that he as a physicist in the work that he was doing that they knew meaning the people that are involved with studying the phenomena in the

1:29:27 government that we are dealing with technology so advanced that they literally can bend space-time and move point to point through the universe and that physicist from at a table used what is now a metaphor generally in this whole subject. He took the napkin on the lunch table and he put it and said, "Linda, this is what they do." And he put one point and he did like this. This is space-time. That we're dealing with technologies that can bend space-time and put the corner to the corner. And that is why Euclidean geometry and time as we know it on this planet have no relevance to the phenomena and the intelligence that we're dealing with. Thank you. Time time does have some relevance for us and we are running late.

1:30:28 There's two left. I'm sorry. Well, then that'll be a stretch. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for all of you for testifying. Question. Um has there been a decrease in the number of incidents that have happened at least in this country or cuz it seemed like this was talked about a lot and there were a lot of sightings at sometime whether it was over the you know, prairie straight states. But that seems I mean, you don't read about it very much today. That's the kicker. It's not a question of how much is going on. It's how much do we hear about it. I check most of my audiences at the end of my lecture. I don't have guts enough to do it at the beginning and find the 10% of the attendees believe they've seen a flying saucer. But then I ask, how many of you reported what you saw? 90% of the hands go down. MUFON, the Mutual UFO Network is getting over 600 reports a month.

1:31:31 You don't hear about most of those cases where the public's grown accustomed, I guess, or the media is unwilling to do get involved. How many UFO reporters do you know? And I know of two competent journalists who are really into UFOs. That's an awful small number. And George Knapp and and and what about in other countries? Are they reported or I mean, is that I find sightings everywhere. The sighting The sightings are very common, but what what isn't uniform are proper distribution networks or reporting systems that are in place. So, what we've developed here in the US are a number of websites that collect reports and as I mentioned earlier, my estimate is a rough one, but it's not less than 10,000 reports actually are written by people per year per year, 10,000 in North America, that's US and Canada. elsewhere in the world, there are obviously many sightings. They're increasing. They're not decreasing because people are now having better capabilities of reporting this. Uh one of the problems with

1:32:32 under you know, less developed nations elsewhere in the world in years past is just if you saw a UFO, who do you report it to? There was really no mechanisms to do it and that's improving now. So, now we're seeing reports out of China, India, Africa and really around the world, but still there aren't the there's not a lot of infrastructure among civilian groups, for example, who really would be the ones to publicize this to get the word out. We have our YouTube channels and people doing this on their own. What really we I think is needed is a a kind of co-coordinated global kind of organizational effort and hopefully we'll get that. Another problem is language. I am constantly confronted with the issue that something happens in China or South America or a country that does not speak English and I'm an American journalist trying to report so that an American audience can understand. And I have worked sometimes for an entire week just trying to find a reporter in China or someplace who could help me do a translation so that you could could get

1:33:35 closer to first-hand facts and it is so difficult. We're on a planet and where communication is basically blocked whether it is country to country or even neighborhood to neighborhood in China because the syntactical differences in the language there are so overwhelming that a man I know who lives there, works there from England who tries to help, you still have translation problems there within very short distances. And so, you take that to this complex phenomena. I know for a fact every month cross my desk and in my computer world hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of reports coming from around the world. How do we follow up unless we have translators and an open government policy around the world where people feel that they can report honestly what they've encountered without some sort of retribution by the government, which is distinctly the way it is working in the

1:34:35 United States, or criticism from fellow human beings. Humans are more afraid of ridicule and criticism from humans than they are of non-humans. Can I just uh You're absolutely right. Can I make a point that I made in my presentation which sort of sums this up? The The problem is the coverage. It's not how many sightings there are. The more people are covering it, the more sightings you're going to get. Basically comes down to the story of Chase Brandon. Chase Brandon was identi- identified himself as the second most powerful person in the CIA outside the director to speak publicly on behalf of the CIA. He was the the lia- liaison for CIA to Hollywood. He could speak publicly on behalf of the CIA. He comes out in front of 2 million people and says, "I saw the files. I saw a box. Roswell was real. There was aliens. This is for real." And nobody covered the story. It's as simple as that. It's just not being covered.

1:35:38 Thank you. Thank you very much. As I had anticipated, most of my questions have been asked. There was lots of discussion of on why a cover-up. Uh Congressman Cook asked a question that wasn't a lengthy discussion of it and that is there have been a number of sightings before anybody had an airplane or a lighter-than-air aircraft in the air and I think that people need to understand that this is not just a current day. As our technology has developed, the sightings become more frequent, but there have been sightings way back in history. Am I not correct? That is absolutely correct. I I just wanted wanted that to be on the record. By the way, um extraterrestrials are not anti-biblical. If you read the book of Job, you should expect them. Maybe they can't get here, but they sure got to heaven as far as the book of Job is concerned. You can you can read about them there. The one question I had which wasn't answered and I would like you don't have to give an answer now because time's up, but but I would like for the record for you to tell us how many unexplained sightings. Now,

1:36:39 there are now lots of these things can can be kind of wished away and explained away. Two people that get on a craft, they could have rehearsed their lies so that they now under hypnotism tell you the same lie. You know, but there are some things that just can't be explained away. How many sightings have there been unexplained sightings that have been accompanied by radar? Sightings are easy. Lights on clouds and so forth and that can behave in very erratic ways. But you know, how many of these sightings have been accompanied by radar tracks? If you could provide that from the record, it's not just a few, I understand. It's a great many of those. But I think the public would be very interested in how many unexplained sightings out there have been accompanied by radar where these objects were doing things that no known known aircraft can do. You can provide that for the record? We can try. We don't We don't know and we also know that such reports are covered up to use the expression. But I've seen some reference to those things. Do do the best you can because I

1:37:40 think the public would like to know. Of publicly known, I would there have to be more than 100, probably several hundred if we were to tally them together. And there presumably are many that are just are classified. But there are quite a few that we do know about that have been declassified or that came out one way or another. Uh there's quite a few. It's not I don't know about thousands, but there are some indication, it's not just one or two. No. Okay. Some indication so that the public can know how many of those. This has been a very interesting hearing. Thank you very much. The hearing will now stand in brief recess. Thank you very much.