Citizen Hearing 2013: Associated Phenomena

0:09 the police name and uh if you will uh repeat after me i do hereby affirm that you're hereby affirmed that i will tell the truth and i will tell the truth and nothing but the truth to this committee today ladies and gentlemen on the committee my name is peter b davenport i'm the director of the national ufo reporting center which has been located in the state of washington since october of 1974. i'm delighted to be here and to especially have an opportunity to data to the committee that i think is of value to not just every member every member of mankind on this planet

1:11 but in point of fact every living organism on this planet and what i'd like to do mr speaker if the chair doesn't hurt mr chairman if a chair doesn't object is split my into three brief parts first of all i'd like to present a little bit of material on my then i would like to discuss the national ufo reporting center and what it is i'm probably introducing it to many members of the committee for the first time and then i'm going to take an opportunity to walk the committee a number of the roughly 86 000 reports that are in our database that i've collected over the net last 19 years that's fine what i'd like to do is the only text that i'm going to read is the first paragraph of my position statement on the issue of ufos a copy of which should be in the packet of 10 pages of material that i've submitted to

2:12 committee members and that first paragraph very simply is the question of whether human beings are alone in the universe is the most important scientific question that has ever confronted mankind and that is the issue that we are addressing today a bit of my background and i think it's important because when a person is a ufologist there's always a the question of mental balance at least this is what i'm told by people who look at my data and look at how i collect that data so just a few brief comments i've worked in both the public and the private sector i have a very good education and i think the committee has a one-page biographical statement on my have an educational background in biochemistry and genetics international uh i am a former russian translator for the u.s government in the soviet union

3:14 uh in june of 1979 i qualified as a an escort interpreter for the u.s department of state i've spent many years teaching at the university level i'm a businessman former founding president of a successful biotech firm in seattle so i'm probably not construed or cannot be construed to be some kind unusual quirky person and i speak within that context it's important to create the context so you can understand what i'm discussing this morning let me move to the second phase of what i'd like to present and that is the national ufo reporting center founded as i mentioned earlier in october 1974 by my predecessor as director in that his name is robert j gribble a retired seattle fireman who had a lifelong interest in the subject of ufos and in july of 1994 he turned over the

4:15 reins to me and it i think i can honestly report to the committee that it's changed my life and changed my outlook on what reality may be the ufo reporting center has a hotline rings 24 hours a day we also have a ufocenter.com where over the course of the last 19 years i've accumulated approximately 86 000 written reports i estimate that that represents roughly of the reports that have been submitted to our center what i would like to do and my gratitude congressman bartlett he gave me a wonderful opportunity yesterday when he made his uh i think commendable statement alluding to the press and the perceived lassitude there and uh how they behave with regard to the issue of ufology what i would like to do mr chairman with the remainder of my time is walk through a six-page document that

5:17 i've submitted to the committee and respond to the question that mr bartlett posed certainly rhetorically perhaps tacitly yesterday where is the where are all the reports and my hope is about seven or eight minutes the committee will understand a little bit the reality the apparent reality that we are dealing with in addressing the issue of ufos if the committee could please turn to page one of the document listing a number of reports out of deference to the chair i would like to start with a report from the state of alaska from the year 1936 and this goes back to a question that congressman cook posed i believe in the late morning of monday of this week he where are all the reports from past and i'd like to address that aklutna october 1936 two teenage boys working in

6:19 that city of alaska at that time no doubt a small city were employees of the ccc civilian conservation corps building a camp there they decided to hitchhike into anchorage as they were walking towards anchorage hoping to get a ride into that city they encountered an object that looked roughly something like a flat iron mr holger one of those teenagers reported to me in september of year 2000 they were walking towards anchorage they noticed a light coming directly at them they were relieved because it was cold in october of that year and they thought it was a truck with only one headlight lo and behold it turned out allegedly to be something else it was a triangular craft that passed right overhead scared them so badly that dove into a snow bank to get away from

7:20 next case mcminnville tennessee questions have been posed before this committee and the committee has commented do ufos ever crash do they have malfunctions on the 7th of january 1995 precisely that seems to have occurred over the city of mcminnville tennessee a fleet of objects seen descending over the airport in mcminnville for several minutes one of them appears to have blown up tonight during my longer presentation at 9 pm i will show the five-page handwritten prepared by an investigating officer of what happened there if the committee would please turn to page two i'd like to for a moment address the issue of the phoenix lights case quite a celebrated case probably the most dramatic ufo event that has occurred in the history of ufology since just briefly the five objects that loitered over the city of phoenix for

8:21 upwards of two hours were not less than seven miles in i will present evidence tonight showing why we believe that is the case and how we calculated the size of them next case longview washington an elk of adult female elk lifted out of the forest of the state of washington before 14 witnesses at about one minute before noon we've reported that i've had witnesses on multiple radio programs talking about that about that case dallas fort worth texas october 26 1999 two airline pilots over the dallas fort worth area were shocked to see a large disc approaching their aircraft it turned executed they estimated 120 degree turn in under one second uh it streaked away from them to the east

9:21 we have the audio tape from the faa through a freedom of information act request if the committee would turn to page three about two-thirds of the way down that page chalice idaho september 27th year 2000 21 30 hours mountain time four hunters were in a remote hunting near chalice idaho about an hour and a half drive outside that city one of the men exited the trailer that they were in to secure food for dinner that night he was shocked by what he saw hovering above their camp a triangular craft dark his flashlight as he jumped up on the back end of his pickup truck swept across the sky what what he saw above him shocked him so badly that he fell to his knees and started yelling three of the others in the trailer came out and they

10:21 observed the object suddenly slowly move go up the side of a nearby mountain range go over the top of it a very dramatic case and if the committee would like documentation of that case i would call upon mrs howe at the end of the table who was present at the testimony of two of those witnesses she later brought them to a radio program case i would like to address briefly is that of carteret new jersey on the top of page four very dramatic case in which certainly possibly hundreds of cars were parked on new jersey turnpike in response to a cluster of yellow objects that were hovering above that turnpike just seconds earlier they had been reported from fort dix new jersey to be streaking across that military within seconds they were probably 70 or 80 miles to the east

11:22 and it was reported by many hundreds of people moving down further on page four the location andrews air force base waldorf maryland mr richard dolan first alluded to this case on the morning of monday this week a blue object there's an error in this i think mr dolan reported it accurately a blue object seen streaking over maryland on that date july 26 year 2002 in being pursued by two f-16 fighters minutes later it was seen returning the opposite direction also pursued both by those same fighters a very very interesting case the case below it meriwether county april 13 2003 three people driving in a closed vehicle the driver was shocked to see a group a

12:24 cluster of red objects pursuing his suddenly those tiny objects perhaps the size of golf balls allegedly reportedly were inside his they stayed in the vehicle for an estimated 20 to 30 seconds suddenly all of them coalesced around one of the occupants of the vehicle the older brother of the two brothers this gentleman had had a tragically uh intestinal surgery just a few days earlier had a colostomy all of the objects in the car assembled around the surgical scar on the lower of this gentleman within seconds they suddenly streaked off interestingly through the closed windows of the vehicle i've had three of those people through those three witnesses on an international radio program talking about their experience if the committee could please turn to page five

13:28 seattle washington june 20th 2004 an adult male standing outside in the university district of seattle was shocked to see a triangular craft suddenly streak across the cloudless blue sky very very dramatic sighting others reported it to the national ufo reporting center that case has been on our our website for the last 13 years going down to a at the bottom of page five the o'hare airport case of november 7 2006. mr dolan richard dolan alluded to this case earlier in the week's testimony a very very dramatic case a disc estimated to be some 30 to 40 feet in hovering above gate c17 at o'hare seen for perhaps as long as 10 minutes or even longer i cite the case because of the drama

14:28 surrounding it that object was in what used to be called terminal control now called class b airspace nothing should have been there over that airport and it was suddenly seen to accelerate as mr dolan reported earlier in the week it punched through two layers of solid leaving holes in the overcast a very and dramatic case reported on national interestingly turning to the last page if we could please page six chicago illinois november 4th year 2008 i will be presenting evidence on this case to include photographs of the very peculiar damage that a young woman's car sustained we cannot demonstrate clearly or to everybody's satisfaction that the case is ufo related but i will present the evidence tonight that during my presentation at 9 00 pm

15:29 uh very very interesting case of the of a car i will leave it at that until i'm able to show the photographs i'd like to close by citing a number of interesting cases that have been submitted to our center over the last roughly 10 months we all are questing to know what all of this means and what's going on the phenomenon appears to be very real but in june of last year 2012 the national ufo reporting center began receiving reports that i certainly do not understand i don't believe anybody does but the second week of june last year and all of this information can be seen on the website we started receiving reports credible reports from credible witnesses of clusters of red orange yellow

16:31 amber or gold lights up to 150 in a cluster from around the world i've written several articles we have several statements on our homepage about this phenomenon it's very and in my opinion it may represent the fact that we may have rounded the corners so to speak in the field of ufology when it comes to the dramatic nature of many of the reports that are coming to us what the cause of these sightings is we have no idea but we have roughly two to three thousand of these sightings posted to our website if members of the committees would of the committee would like to see details i would commend to their the roughly 38 cases that were submitted to our facility on saturday night the 10th of november year 2012. one of those cases on page six of your is that of castle rock i cite that case

17:31 because it was a report that was to our center by a commercial airline retired 37 years of experience driving east from interstate 5 this is 70 miles north of the city of portland driving east on highway 504 what he saw frightened him so badly that he stopped his car on the highway turned it around and went back the other direction to get his camera and his wife it's a very very dramatic case again one roughly 38 cases an hour and 12 minutes a retired united states marine corps officer and his wife encountered something very similar in the city of los angeles so in conclusion mr chairman and ladies and gentlemen the question has been posed is the ufo phenomenon real and i pose to you the question that if

18:33 it is not real why have all of these reports been submitted over the last roughly 19 years the ufo phenomenon appears to be very real and i would like to conclude in responding to the the very prescient question that congressman bartlett posed yesterday at about 305 pm where is the press and where are all of the reports very good question and it's a question that every serious-minded ufo poses to himself probably multiple times a day i'd like to address the issue of the press many people have asked the why is the press responding apparently so strangely to this phenomenon and from my vantage point it's really a little bit different than that i would split the press into two categories at least the local regional press and the national press

19:35 from my observation and i've had hundreds of interchanges exchanges of information with members of the press the interesting phenomenon is members of the local or regional are questing for this data a week doesn't go by when i don't get three to five queries from members of the local press smaller newspapers radio and television but interestingly when one gets to the national level the interest seems to simply expire a very peculiar phenomenon but it tells us that people who are professional writers who are professional reporters are very interested in this phenomenon and i close with a brief comment about the government's apparent position on this phenomenon the government knows about this phenomenon there is no doubt about it i've had multiple exchanges multiple

20:35 with all sorts of people who are in positions of authority in federal state and local government many of them admit that they accept the fact that this is potentially a very real phenomenon i've talked to military officers they senior officers general or flagship officers flag officers who in quiet conversations have admitted to me that they are very interested in this phenomenon and in their opinion there is very real evidence in support of what this committee is addressing in these hearings this week it appears that we are being visited on a frequent basis the evidence supports it strongly in my opinion and with that i will close i think my time has expired exactly thank you very much it has expired

21:41 i want to underscore a a different style from my personal point of view i do not intend to interrupt any of the speakers uh you're of the time uh and when it goes over and your testimony is very good it will continue however you have to self-discipline yourself and in case you have problems with that you just look at me and when i'm doing like that that means wind it up intelligently so that you look good and uh and i want to commend you mr davenport you have a great political style and that is when you're going over you you repeat that you're going to close in about three or four times i do apologize mr chairman i the time card and i was so focused on you stay focused stay focused on your message we'll worry about the time but uh we appreciate your testimony mr robbins the floor is yours and uh will allow you the same latitude but

22:42 keep in mind that when when the when we're biting into time we're biting into our time to question you uh and to have a discourse that may be more germaned to our particular interest so discipline and mr robinson please go forward and i won't interrupt you mr chairman i apologize good morning mr distinguished members of our committee i was only scheduled here to do this yesterday afternoon so my opening statement is a bit rough at the edges i've been involved in the field of ufo studies for more than 30 years as a lecturer activist consultant author and conference organizer i've consulted to numerous television and radio shows films appear on radio regularly commenting about these subjects write a uh actually a new one that will be starting in june for

23:42 a uh a new online magazine called ufo published by my friend and colleague to my right gary hasseltine i'm also the co-author of a 540-page book that was a bestseller in the united kingdom entitled left at east gate a first-hand account of the rendelsham forest ufo investigation uh rendelsham forest ufo incident its cover up an investigation for these thirty years that i have pursued this subject i have done it on a number of fronts always doing my utmost to approach each new case witness claim research paper or interview free of prejudice or agenda my only objective being to get myself and my readers as close as possible to the truth of what i've been looking into limited

24:43 only by my investigative skills means and applying as much common sense as possible wherever possible before proceeding however i feel i should go on put on the record that i am self-trained as an investigative writer and if anyone in these hearings has a background more opposite than my friend and colleague peter davenport it's me i began my professional life as a painter and film historian i taught painting in new york city for many years at my alma mater the school of visual arts and as i developed as a writer i supported myself continuing as an artist as a manager of a distinguished repertory theater company in new york city as a new york city tour guide and as a i also worked for eight of those years as an online phone volunteer and shift on the busiest crisis intervention and

25:43 suicide hotline in the united states some may feel that such an eclectic and decidedly unrelated may not be much of an asset in the field i ultimately choose to pursue i can only beg to differ subjects i've chosen to investigate have included but not been limited to the origins of the ufo ridicule factor roadblocks on the path to disclosure the united kingdom's rendelsham forest the strange death of james vincent first secretary of defense as some of you know and an early casualty of ufo secrecy at least that are my conclusions critical thinking deductive reasoning and ufology stress and ufo studies the ufo abduction and ufos organized religion and fundamentalist thinking

26:44 as this morning's discussion topic is listed as various topics i believe i i stand ready to try and answer any questions to the best of my ability this committee may have i'd particularly like to invite you to focus in on two of these particular areas of study one the so-called ufo ridicule factor we now know for a fact the subject of ufos and their implications have been regarded as extremely serious by our military and intelligence communities from at least the summer of 1947 on more seriously in than any other matter facing this nation since the end of world war ii why then have the overwhelming majority mr davenport hit the nail on the head we uh the media's general relationship with the subject of ufos into two areas local and regional news gatherers are

27:45 overall very serious inquisitive and genuinely respectful of this mystery major media has singled this subject out for a level of ridicule sarcasm and condescension matched in post-war how and why did all of this come to pass and what is its legacy for the american the second subject is one you were introduced to during yesterday morning's that is the uk's rendelsham forest ufo i first heard of these events in the autumn of 1983 shortly after the story broke in great the following year i met and chatted briefly with larry warren the former united states air force security police officer who had completely on his own and to a degree at great risk certainly to his peace of mind and become the whistleblower in this case

28:45 was directly responsible for the foia that resulted in the release of colonel halt's january 1981 report which was then published in england in 83 and the story broke four years later we met again at a conference not far from here at american university in washington i was very impressed with his fully authentic military witnesses who can be fully vetted and prove their involvement are not all that common you've had the privilege of hearing several of them yesterday afternoon i decided i wanted to interview this guy he decided after hearing me on a panel he wanted me to co-author a book with we met the next weekend we talked all and by that sunday afternoon we shook hands and i was very excited i was going to be writing a book i was looking for a serious project to get my teeth i thought it might take a year or two obviously result in a huge bestseller a

29:47 movie deal many checks to endorse and women to fight off life does not always work out the way you think the book took 10 years to complete it cost us everything we had it cost me to a great degree my peace of it's brought me back to england since more than 20 times i had no idea what i was getting into but when we completed it it was a bestseller in the united kingdom it was immediately in the library of the then new prime minister tony blair one of our greatest champions in the united kingdom a former admiral of the fleet former chief of staff of the ministry of defense lord peter hill norton who as an mp brought his hardcover copy onto the book of the floor of house of lords and confronted the then secretary for defense with four questions taken right out of the book all of which were demured um

30:49 when my co-author lost his passport the state department refusing to renew it four quote-unquote speaking out on sensitive defense issues in a public forum on foreign soil it was nobody less than former attorney general ramsey clark who pro bono helped us restore larry's passport and continue our work the men who were involved in this as witnesses and it was only touched on were put through absolute hell some of the things that were done to the more unconscionable as far as i'm and this is of more interest and focus for me than whatever the source of the intelligences behind the events of december 1980. i applaud john and jim for fighting for the truth to come out about this i think all of these men are still struggling and in fact we are all clear in former deputy-based commanders uh charles halt's terminology that these

31:50 men were meddled with and in some cases are still sorting out implanted memories from actual ones hence comes a certain amount of contention within this case that continues 33 years after i hope i can clarify some of it fast and thank you for the privilege of appearing before you your timing is excellent uh mr robins next witness is uh gary hazeltine hazeltime hazel thank you uh good and i will not go over ten minutes i right my name is gary zlatan and i am a recently retired police detective in england having served almost 24 years with the british transport police for the majority of that time for 20 years i was a detective i was dealing at the sharp end of evidence evidential matters i've been being involved in murder

32:50 manslaughter rape etc etc i come to this subject on an evidential basis and i think that is very necessary in this field i am here principally to speak on behalf of police officers who have witnessed ufos but i would also like to say that i'm also one of the principal investigators of the reynolds forest incident that my colleague peter has alluded to along with linda molten how i would consider as the three principal investigators of this incident we're all doing very good work on it for the last five years i have worked with colonel charles holt the man who wrote the haltom memorandum the deputy-based commander of what was absolutely a nuclear facility and let me back that up by saying that for three years of my six years in the royal air force between 1983 and 1989 i served on two nuclear bases doing exactly the same job as what those u.s air force policemen did and the base at bent waters is identical to the burst that area of labor in west germany where i worked let's cut

33:52 the crap this is a nuclear issue right in january 2002 moving to my police i created the police reporting ufo sightings database it's commonly referred to as the proof force police database you have an information pack with that it's basically there for uk police officers to record on and off duty police sightings believe me the over the 11 years of my nothing will surprise me what anybody says in this field about what they report it is truly when i began my research 11 years ago into british police officers there were approximately six cases involving ten officers eleven years later i now have over 425 cases involving over 940 british police officers this is a significant amount in my opinion these sightings have taken the length and breadth of britain and

34:54 have been reported at all times of the whilst i'm not a big lover of statistics because they can be manipulated i would say that the key statistic for is that over 70 percent of these cases are multiple witness officer cases therefore it is significant corroboration to a citing event again i look at this case through evidential in one particular case there is in excess of 24 police officers that were involved in tracking at least one object over six counties of britain on the night of march the thirtieth thirty first uh 1993 this is referred to as the costford incident many police officers have observed structured craft of huge size and proportions in close proximity to their ground positions these craft range in shape and size and dimensions from many tens of feet too many hundreds of feet in size

35:54 many of the police cases on the database in my opinion are truly extraordinary for example in october 1984 near raf northolt in middlesex a silent black triangular object was seen at low altitude by two uniform police officers on mobile patrol wallet which they described as being the size of three football fields when i sought to clarify this description of size they said when they saw it it was above three fields so i think that's pretty good representation of size this report was made by police constable robin perry of the metropolitan police on another occasion in october 1978 three uniformed police officers in a rural area of buckinghamshire observed a huge object which they described as a size of a football field which suddenly and silently materialized in front of them in the blink of an eye and at relative close proximity to their

36:57 however there were also a number of smaller objects flying around the large main object akin to a mothership kind of scenario and the larger object then projected a beam down to the ground which was the width of the football field which then traversed the ground as if scanning the terrain for several minutes they watched for this event for approximately five minutes before it went off and dematerialized in the blink of an eye one second it was there and then it was and this has been described as like switching on a light bulb on and off not something that i think our stealth capability is quite capable of yet the source of that report is the police constable eric raymond retired of the thames valley police many officers have seen objects that appear to move in ways that seem to defy on laws of non-physics and aerodynamics for

37:57 in may 1981 and 1982 two firearms officers were involved in the close protection of what was then a very prominent conservative minister in a rural location in north at approximately 5 30 hours in the morning as they were walking in the of this residence they suddenly became aware that the sunshine had darkened the sky had darkened when they looked up to establish the cause of they were amazed to see a huge dark purple cylindrical object with a pronounced undercarriage un underneath it that was described as being the length of a football field a figure in all of this uh and hovering silently above the house at an altitude of only two to three hundred feet which is extremely close the object remained motionless silent above the house for five to ten minutes before it suddenly and silently in the blink of an eye out to the horizon where it stopped

38:59 in an instant for a few seconds and then disappeared towards the horizon and out of sight the source of this report is police sergeant retired john paulson of the north yorkshire police in my introduction i mentioned that i would refer to police officer sightings worldwide and in the time permitted i would like to draw your attention to just two particular where numerous police officer sightings have taken place namely i refer to the united states and many of the us cases are simply and i will highlight just two of them just after midnight on the 14th of december 1994 15 police officers of trumbull county observed multiple circular ufos from different geographical positions in one particular sighting the engine of the police vehicle driven by sergeant toby suddenly cut out when he got out of the vehicle he looked up and the ufo was directly above him shining a beam down as soon as the the object moved away his

40:00 engine restarted and he attempted to a short pursuit on the 5th of january 2000 in illinois multiple police officers observed a large triangular craft that was witnessed from many geographical positions and was sometimes seen at close proximity to their ground locations broadly speaking all the officers involved in both of these incidents described craft that moved in silence which were able to make incredibly high speed maneuvers unlike that of any known aircraft finally in the skies above belgium between 1989 and 1991 hundreds of police officers observed large triangular objects all over the country many of these sightings involved multiple police officer witnesses and were frequently seen at close proximity to their ground locations in addition many of these sightings were confirmed on multiple civilian radar and multiple military radar facilities in the allotted ten minutes given to brief you which i'm

41:00 trying to keep to i would like to say on behalf of police officers worldwide that they are seeing actual structured craft physical in nature and which move in ways that they have never seen before or since in closing i urge this panel to accept their collective testimonies as genuine and that they offer compelling circumstantial evidence that many of these sightings represent unknown structured craft moving in the earth's airspace in closing and on a personal note i believe that the time is now to lift the veil of secrecy that has shrouded this subject for over 60 years and the subject of should now be openly accepted in the mainstream media as being real in nature and which in turn would allow people to come forward from all walks all life

42:00 all countries without the fear of ridicule and a risk to their careers as a police detective of many years service i believe that the collective testimonial and physical evidence obtained in obtaining over 60 years of ufo research overwhelmingly confirms that some and i repeat the word some ufo sightings do represent an ongoing extraterrestrial engagement with planet i am deeply honored to be here before you today and thank you the panel for being courageous in coming forward at some some cost to yourselves in your reputation but you are and whether the mainstream media are here or not this is historic and it will be looked back as an historic event and you will be congratulated in time for your participation thank you

43:05 thank you thank you very much detective i just want to underscore that your passion uh really underscores the significance of your testimony and and that's and that's a worthy that's a it's a virtue uh now we come to our last panelist uh for the this round who's graced us with her she doesn't have her little hat uh today but it's not raining okay it's not right very good well great to have you back uh ms hall please because i'm going to talk about a subject that is perhaps one of the most difficult when it comes to the ufo i thought i would give you a little bit more context about my background and to jennifer who is handling the slides please wait until i call for them by my name is linda moltenhau

44:06 my master's degree in communication is from stanford university palo alto california in 1968 i attached a bio for you to my statement since then i have produced two dozen tv including the regional emmy award honored a strange harvest about the worldwide animal mutilation phenomena and more than a hundred live tv studio science environment and medicine is my i also produce write edit and report the journalism award-winning science environment and real x-files news earthfiles.com in addition i am an investigative reporter for premier radio network's program coast to coast am reporting earth files environment science and real x-files news monthly and three-hour broadcasts since 1990 i have produced a thousand

45:07 new segments for radio broadcasts my four books include an alien harvest 1989 glimpses of other realities volume 1 facts and eyewitnesses 1993 glimpses of other realities volume 2 high strangeness 1998 mysterious lights and crop circles second edition 2002. i have been asked to speak around the world as an investigative reporter at national and international conferences and including nasa's goddard space flight one of the subjects that i have been asked to talk about is all of the work that i have done in the investigation of animal mutilations around the world the first global media report about this phenomena was in september of 1967 when a female horse named lady was found on a ranch near alamosa in southern

46:10 the horse's entire skull and long neck had been stripped of flesh and every organ in the chest of that horse had been surgically excised according to a medical doctor there was no blood anywhere not in the not around the animal and nowhere nearby and there were no tracks of the animal it was powdery soil and the animal is lying there stripped of flesh but there were no tracks around the body not even the own horses tracks but a hundred and some feet away it there were horse tracks in a circle as if the horse had been caught in in which the feet had gone around in a and then 100 and some feet away the body was found at that same time and jennifer image 0-0

47:11 on july 15 1984 the sunday times in australia quote cover-up alleged over ufo-linked animal slaughter many reports of ufos and strange lights in the sky close quote farmers in the adelaide hills have discovered mutilated animal corpses and burn marks on the in one incident researchers say a farmer discovered four cows with holes drilled into their skulls and the brains removed adelaide ufo researcher colin norris said quote i have been told the army asked the farmer to remain quiet about the animals and that the army would cover the whole thing up close quote mr nora said pod marks in the ground and burnt treetops indicated a ufo craft had landed that was australia in 1984 and we should have up that headline at

48:16 if jen yes and australia has played a very interesting role in this historically because the bbc in 1979 when i started the work on a strange harvest it was a producer there who told me that they had a journal from that had been published about 104 sheep being found in an australian with a ear eye tongue genitals and rectum cored out 104 all in one billabong with no blood and no tracks around those animals either image 13 this map shows geographic areas where animal mutilations have been reported since 1967 at least barring the fact that australia has many before by 2013 every state in the united states and

49:16 every province in canada have had bloodless large animal mutilations as well as other countries no one knows for certain how many animals have been mutilated over the past half century in the united states and canada and around the world many mutilated animals are not reported because ranchers are either afraid or do not want public attention and potential ridicule image 14. beyond the united states and canada mutilated animals have been reported in panama puerto rico brazil argentina parts of europe the canary islands china and australia image one excisions are not only smooth and bloodless they can be serrated the way that pinking shears cut cloth for dressmakers as was discovered in this two-year-old hereford steer the fifth mutilation on the richard fazio ranch near portland oregon within a four-month period ending in october of

50:17 image two here is a photograph of the uniformly serrated edge of the mutilator's bloodless excision that many people who have had these in their hands in the field say do look like some kind of pinking shears have cut the steers tissue image three here is a close-up of that particular serrated edge from the side in the 1990 oregon steer serrated that an oregon state university veterinary diagnostic laboratory reported have been cut with high heat image five consistent and i'm reading from the oregon state university laboratory assessment quote consistent with a specimen collected via electrosurgical excision it is not possible to tell whether this lesion was caused by a laser it does appear consistent with a heat induced injury close quote

51:18 image four here is another similar serrated edge found on a mutilated cow in 1975 where going back almost 20 years by the cascade county sheriff's office in great falls montana the issue of lasers came up early in the animal mutilation mystery because there was no blood there had to have been some kind of cautery but then i worked with john altschuler md pathologist and hematologist in denver colorado going out to animal mutilation sites myself to collect tissue and fluid for him to study from the one of his first confirmations was cooked hemoglobin in a mutilated cow slide six here is what normal cow collagen looks like under a microscope image seven and here is mutilated cow tissue in which the hemoglobin has been cooked by high heat at the excision site dr al shuler also showed me photo micrographs of the mutilator's

52:19 excision in comparison with known laser dr altschuler said quote the animal mutilation excisions do not show any but earth life is based and all tissue exposed to the heat of a laser should show carbon residue that looks like black pepper grains under a unquote we never found any carbon on mutilator excisions we studied raising the question what is the surgical instrument does it work by sound frequencies or some other unknown to earth medical science image here is a classic example of the bloodless removal of an udder from a cow that had just given birth in ashdown arkansas discovered on the morning of march 11 and i'm showing you letting you know this is one of the cleanest kind of phenomena the excision is there

53:19 and the animal is not alive but you can see how pristine the scenes are the editor of the little river news jim wilson williamson contacted me and i called dr outschuler who wanted jim williamson to cut a rectangle of cowhide that would include the mutilator's cut dr al shuler said tissue slides from this cow quote proved that the cutting was done quickly with a hot instrument of some kind close quote he reported quote examination of the tissues after fixation revealed cut edges to be very hard difficult to cut and appearing somewhat darker than the surrounding tissues which does relate to high heat image photomicrograph number one has an arrow which points to the separation line the abnormal tissue on the left shows a smudge pink change with nuclear indicating tissue destruction and death

54:20 these changes are referred to as coagulative necrosis the band between cutting margin and normal tissue is quite thin suggesting that the dissection was done with what appears to be a pinpoint and minimal dissipation of heat at the cut line close quote the heat is confined to a millimeter in these excisions image 10 this photo micrograph shows dark pinkish blue parallel bundles of cells at the cut edge of the tissue these changes are referred to as the string being signed by a pathologist tissue exposure to high heat as in laser or hot needle surgery but again there is no carbon residue image 11. in this photomicrograph the tissue is from below the hide surface and is called dermis the upper portion clearly shows many spaces called vacular changes where the arrow is which result from tissue cooking or

55:21 exposure to high temperatures probably above 300 degrees fahrenheit image 12. in the lower left-hand corner of this photo micrograph is a distinct color change from a light normal pink to a dark pink the darker collagen tissue is damaged from some injury source but shows a striking lack of inflammatory change this suggests that the procedure of injury was relatively fast talking taking all the microscopic findings into account one would have to conclude that the surgical procedure performed on these animals took place quickly probably in a minute or two and utilized high temperature heat as a cutting source applied in a fine probe or cutting instrument close quote we are talking about the excision of an eye jaw flesh tongue the sexual organs and the rectum in less than two minutes leaving physical

56:24 evidence that has been repeated myself i have cut tissue from at least 30 of these animals in pastures all over the united states and all of the findings are exactly the how do you excise large sections of and leave the evidence of high heat without carbon residue no blood and no tracks around the animals and do it in two minutes or less lynn lauber head of animal mutilation investigations at the royal canadian mount of police in calgary alberta in 1980 where the local canadian were told by the rcmp that the cause of the mutilations there in the hundreds were satanic cults but lynn lauber called me at kmghtv in denver after the broadcast of my tv documentary estranged and he said that he had seen my documentary and he was calling me

57:25 because and this is what he said to me he knew that something from outer space was involved in the mutilations that the rcmp in canada had investigated when i asked him why then have you told the media the perpetrators are satanic he said the reason was that he felt the truth was too difficult to report and that to me sums up the metaphor of not just this 21st century or the 20th century but this is a phenomena that i understand has been going on for thousands of years and we are just catching up to it and when sheriff tech's graves in september of 1979 in my very first interview with somebody in law enforcement about animal mutilations when i began doing a strange harvest told me linda the perpetrators are creatures from outer space quote unquote and i felt the same shock

58:28 that perhaps you do the truth is law enforcement has long from their own eyewitness accounts they've seen the beams of light in ranchers have seen the glowing discs put beams down ranchers have seen animals rise into these glowing discs the glowing discs have been seen lowering animals down in beams of light to pastures where they are then and to get those people law enforcement or ranchers to stand up in front of a camera and the world what they've seen with their own eyes is the biggest difficulty of my entire because we are on a planet where humans are more afraid of humans and they're ridiculed than they are of i am hoping that in this citizen hearing

59:29 i kind of exercise to what i hope will take place all of this should be presented in a executive official congressional hearing of why has the the agencies of the united states the department of justice the fbi the cia the nsa the dia the nro they've all been studying this they have more data than i do why shouldn't this country get back on the track of being of and by and for the people and that we should know exactly what those agencies know thank you thank you thank you thank you all for your fine testimony

1:00:30 i'd like to yield to my colleague from the house uh mr bartlett explores yourself thank you very much and thank you all very much for your testimony mr hazelton you mentioned some concern expressed to you about the contribution of statistics yes it reminded me uh when i was working on my doctorate and that was a long time ago i got it in 1952 i came in one morning and my major professor norman phillips said you know roscoe there are three degrees of liars i said sir he said yes there are liars they're damn liars and they're statisticians so that was uh that was his view of the when i got home last night i uh my wife called me and she said there's somebody on the phone with a very heavy accent that wants to talk to you so i went to the phone and it was somebody from the bbc and they said we understand that you're involved in a a citizen's hearing in washington dc about

1:01:33 and i said well that's not quite my when i accepted the invitation to to come to the to be a part of these uh this citizen and i thought to myself this is a bit like the uh elephant and the three blind men one of them felt its broadside and said gee this is a wall another felt one of the legs and said this has to be a tree and another felt the tail and said this is a rope or a and so what you think these hearings are about depends i guess upon your context and of your experience and what you had in your head when you when you came here that i knew before i came here that ufos a real subject unidentified flying even the air force in their not very truthful fact sheet on closing down project blue book uh

1:02:36 admitted that there were 701 that's what a ufo is an unidentified flying object so even even the air force admits that they're unidentified flying objects my interview on the bbc last evening ended with my uh with my question what are they there's clearly something out there that cannot be explained as beams of light or swamp gas or hallucinations or anything when more than one person sees it from different angles when there is a radar track this is real this is not something that you can that you can argue away my hope is as a result of this hearing that the the media will you know even if they believe that this is all crazy that everyone who believes in now i believe in ufos i'm not quite there yet that they're extraterrestrial maybe that's because

1:03:36 i'm a scientist and i know that the the closest possible place i'm told where there could be life is 37 light years away what that means is unless they have some way of communicating faster than the speed of light it takes 74 years to ask a question and get an answer back so obviously you can't be controlling something from that far away now you know i um my four bears not very long ago since i am anglo-saxon uh my four bears not very long ago we're running around europe in animal skins in a stone age so i have to be pretty arrogant and presumptuous to believe that there isn't somewhere out there in this huge universe some civilization more developed than than mine and i note that we still have these stupid wars and kill each other and there's got to be a civilization somewhere in this huge universe with a billion stars in our galaxy and a billion galaxies out there there's

1:04:37 the statistical probability that there is life somewhere else just has to be very very high doesn't it i would hope that what comes of this hearing is that the press recognizes that here is an opportunity for some really interesting stories there is reporting out there and then after the reporting what is the explanation of it i'm sure the air force thought that they explain away um nearly 12 000 or 12 618 sightings they explained away all but 701 of them and there are a lot of sightings that you know that are search lights on clouds and that sort of thing and so it would make very interesting press i would think to to report these sightings and then to report the the analysis of the sighting what did it so the press doesn't have to buy in to extraterrestrials they don't have to buy into to any of this they simply need

1:05:39 to to do what the press i think is supposed to do and that is report what's out there and why wouldn't this make you know and they don't have to to buy into the to the lunatic fringe you know if somebody cites something somebody cites something why not report it they don't even report the sighting they don't report anything and you know you've told me about fairly recent uh mr evanport i haven't heard any of that in the press now a number of years ago there was there were uh mentions of that in the press i mentioned the one time i was listening i can't remember the year was quite some time ago but you may be able to tell me what the year was by the conference of the two events one was sightings over new mexico and the other was report that two people had died in new york city from what might have been sidicosis and if it was cydicosus it might have come from dried pigeon manures and maybe we ought to kill all the pigeons in new york city so i thought to myself you know with that kind of of logic if i was out there from somewhere else watching i think i'd want to i'd want to watch a

1:06:40 little longer before i contacted these uh i hope that that's uh what comes of this as i say you know i there are unidentified flying objects i came here with an open mind i'm not quite there yet they're extraterrestrial because i'm not sure how they would control things when the lowest when the closest possible life i'm told is 37 light years away now you know i couldn't my four bars bears couldn't imagine of the the iphones of today so clearly there there may be travel faster than the speed of light there may be ways to communicate um that we can't begin to understand but you know the phenomenon is real they are here there are thousands of you know and i will do everything i can i think i have some credibility i will try to do everything i can to convince the the press that they there's some interesting stories here you know story maybe this guy is really a wacko isn't he's

1:07:41 reporting these crazy things but in any event isn't there an interesting story to all of these sightings there is something there why who has been successful in convincing the press that these are not reportable supposed to be a free press free country the truth out there why isn't it thank you very much it's turning into a senate hearing you know where where we give our views i'm guilty of that for the last two days the next person to uh to ask questions is congresswoman lynn woolsey thank you uh more interesting information there's no question about it i'd like to

1:08:42 uh just add on to what uh congressman bartlett said it's not just the press that needs to start bringing this forward it's our and we know that maybe if if our government will listen and investigate and i mean they're doing it somewhere probably but if they bring it out in the that would make interesting press and it would not be press libel kooks i don't believe and i have i actually have questions but i want to say there's no cooks in this room and i am so impressed with all of you so thank you for letting me be part of it uh okay uh peter davenport you said that there's over 80 000 written reports that you and examples that you get i mean reports you get every year on your hotline and in your organization uh we receive

1:09:45 probably between three and six thousand reports a year we have i think eighty six thousand reports accumulated in our databases okay well uh give us an example or two of what somebody would call about that uh resulted in incredible thank you for the question congresswoman woolsey uh i would go right to the phoenix lights case in response to your question the most dramatic case that i've handled in my roughly 50 60 years of investigating the ufo again the size of the objects was by terrestrial standards the the triangular object that hovered for an estimated five minutes over the intersection of seventh avenue and indian school road that night again this is march 13 1997 hovered there for five minutes it subtended an

1:10:45 arc of about 135 degrees from the vantage point of people on the ground it was that large above their heads at which time it was not less than eight thousand feet above ground level the size of these objects by itself tells us that we're dealing with something extraordinary that object was capable of hovering motionless for five minutes so i'm going to ask you to talk about what came of that i mean so you just you heard something of something and it turned out to be something that uh people could see and what came of it i mean so so why did it matter that that uh we knew this well it appears that a very unusual event occurred it's generated multiple books six videotapes of various objects that night were taken it was an extraordinary event that went largely unreported in the national press it occurred on march 13th the first

1:11:46 national article in the usa today did not appear until wednesday the 18th of june that year did anybody was anybody harmed was did anything happen to arizona because of this not that i'm aware of i think the full story is yet to be understood and i'm not sure we'll be able to obtain the full story but about 1500 witnesses submitted written that's pretty good evidence by my standard do with those reports where did they go many of them are on our web page i think probably 100 or 150 eyewitness reports are posted there many of them are in the hands of investigators in arizona okay thank you and are you still following up i mean you you don't just hand it to the investigators and say now it's yours well that is what i did in that instance because we the national ufo reporting center

1:12:47 technically speaking is not an investigative body right we're conduit of information okay now to all of you uh but you don't all have to answer when if you hear the right answer from one of your colleagues on the panel uh when it's not a ufo okay this flying object it when it's when it's not a ufo what is i'll take that first um any number of things congresswoman in fact most of us um who try to do good work in this field are uh approach it with surprising because we no longer have the luxury of disbelief so to say it's been proved to us repeatedly in terms you could bring into a courtroom we have to be particularly careful about not informing our examination first it's no secret that our government has produced

1:13:52 flying aircraft that do not conform to the notions that we grew up with that are terribly advanced and i don't have to tell the members of this committee that technologically where we are at the highest levels so now and it's your understanding that those technologies aren't common knowledge oh i think they're common knowledge in popular culture but the specifics of the dynamics of these machines and what they're capable of for most intelligent people would mimic a machine from you know another planet or also if you're predisposed to the or you're a believer or you're looking for these things it can be a plane coming at a certain it can under certain circumstances be a reflection from the ground it can be um you know a large assembly of balloons themselves that escape there are any number of

1:14:55 the main thing is to paraphrase our friend and colleague stanton friedman the question is not are ufos per se machines of advanced technology from parts unknown the question is has one ever been and for those of us that spend a good part of our lives looking into these that answer is overwhelmingly yes and we feel pretty certain that uh the ufos and if they're manned or uh bodied i don't know who's it what's in them if there is such thing uh they are coming here with they aren't coming to get our technology they're coming with advanced technology so far ahead of us i don't think any of us assume these things run on coal petroleum or uh yeah right okay what it is is all theoretical um i have been involved in this field of study for over 35 years and i know that i have no idea

1:15:55 of where they come from why they're coming how they propel themselves i can make better educated guesses than many people and i tend to shy away from colleagues who do tell me that they know the specific answers for me that is somewhat problematical to say that you know the unknown definitively there's only several ways you can they told you um you read it in a book you saw it in a movie you dreamt it it came to you in a vision however my feeling is we are dealing with uh an area that is the epitome of the unknown and i have to i have one more question and i have to ask it linda because i only have a minute uh miss uh molten howe explain a little bit further i don't how these uh pieces and parts of tissues are used why why a genetic harvest pardon it's a genetic harvest to be used how

1:16:56 i'm not there yet i don't get it what are they doing with it they're going to take it back to outer space and do some what are they doing with it i think that the answer is very i think it involves on a more sophisticated level what we are beginning to do in our science with cloning and if you are and you can take genetic material and you can clone you can probably clone so there's a chance there's maybe the idea that uh we have parts of animals are parts of living that uh the aliens that you would like clone because they're maybe stronger than what they have or

1:17:57 what why do they want ours i don't have all the answers but genetic a harvest of tissue there is there might be a reason for why pieces and tissues are harvested not anything is being done with the bovine itself it's the genetic dna it's the dna that would be used so it's not a religious sacrament or it's not symbolic we're talking about medical cloning could it could i just to back up linda that i think we have to put things in perspective and it goes to addressing the question your last question realistically every ufo researcher in the world will save 100 of cases 95 of them turn out to have a mundane explanation

1:18:58 that's a generally accepted figure worldwide have a mundane whether it be astronomical misinterpretation that's a generally accepted figure but really where we start to delve down is when we look at the five percent well when you look at the five percent after investigation you end up with probably about three percent of hardcore cases now these are hardcore cases after investigation well i haven't bothered about the 97 and your remit here is not really to speculate in my opinion as to where and what they're doing it's really to establish the facts and the facts are very very apparent from very credible people that we are that this is a subject that needs to be addressed as on an evidential basis and it's not for us to speculate really where they're coming from what their agenda is it's really to look at the evidence this is a hearing to look at evidence and this is what we should be doing and the evidence in that three percent

1:19:58 is what counts and the and the media need to look at the three percent the cases that defy all explanation after investigation that's what evidence is is there evidence that would stand up in a court of law yes there is if there was a plane crash scenario just this building and we all happen to be on a coffee break we'd all be material witnesses to it however when we talk about ufos the suddenly make us all crazy and that is wrong and this needs to be addressed and the panel in front of me are the representatives that can help make that happen we are relying on you to use your voice and experience to listen to the evidence and what all any ufo investigator wants all we want is a level playing field that is not a lot to ask in the world we just want to present evidence but sir are you suggesting we

1:20:58 listen and don't ask questions no of course not but in the limited time frame that we i mean we never only saw a little time if we don't ask the mundane simple question absolutely the public is you you're not going to get anything out of this panel no no i i accept that but we're here to look at evidence thank you the evidence goes to implication and that's what you're asking about and the implication of all of this is most of the world is probably at the stage of pretty lights in the sky that form patterns or can be stationary and put beams down and what i just presented to you in a brief way was just a tiny tiny scratch on the surface of 33 years of my trying to understand animal mutilations and why which goes out to a thousand other

1:21:59 if the pretty lights in the sky and the for centuries have been involved with harvesting material from this earth i don't know that there's any homo sapien who can answer why but there is no question in my mind or anybody who has investigated that we're dealing with advanced with advanced technology that can fold time sir that's how it's faster than the speed of light and that in so doing that their focus is on what we as homo sapiens have only begun to investigate and that is the dna the genetic material and that we're now finally doing experiments in the subject of cloning it's a bottom line that what is

1:23:01 happening on this planet and it has for centuries is there is a harvest of genetic material plants animals and humans why and to what end is a very complicated story and i think that what i had just realized and you're asking me the question which goes to implication is that the disconnect between the current world population of 7 billion and what is actually happening on this planet in relationship to other the gap is so great that to address the details that are known and what our government knows is so difficult that right now the inertia of silence on the part of government agencies who have a great deal of information let me guarantee you that they feel that this is a subject

1:24:02 that cannot be presented and i do know that there was a high naval officer who told one of his lower ranking officers who had seen a craft who was exposed to the photographs from roswell of the bodies the high-ranking authority when asked by the low-ranking authority who had seen the craft and ask the higher ranking when are you going to tell the people and the answer was never and the implication there politically is that we are now in the united states of america where there is an unstated policy of total complete silence for the foreseeable future because it is too difficult to change what has been to something that might up the end a lot of subjects

1:25:02 thank you i'd like to turn it out i'd like to turn now to congressman carolyn uh kilpatrick please there will be congresswoman sir congresswoman yes thank you thank you very much i'm easily corrected thank you not to correct you just woman i certainly want to appreciate and thank you all for coming again every day is a different day this is the first day of the rest of all of our lives how we use it how we put it together how we share and give back is what we're here for so i commend you for your testimony a lot of notes a lot of work and my mind is boggled i think i want to ask you first mr royal air force security police hundreds of incidents yet today what is the position of the

1:26:04 british government on ufos and is it similar to you us who are cousins or is it something different or do we do this in british do they speak um tell me what's the position there the bottom line is uh that there is the special relationship with america and america is quite clearly the most secretive government in the world on ufos and it leads their fingers are in every decent ufo report around the world i don't know about britain okay well britain follows generally america's lead on most things and britain does the same they have been releasing over the last three and a half years several batches of files which are in in terms of papers uh hundreds of thousands of single sheets of paper however the majority of the paper that has been released is very low level it's mostly correspondence in amongst that there are some very good for example a british case in 1957 milton torres a pilot u.s pilot flying over ipswich in

1:27:06 suffolk england and he was uh stationed there flying a super server he was vectored towards a radar target and he was ordered to fire his missile at the target uh he actually got the launch cards when he went to launch it jammed okay stop okay in britain that yeah yeah don't give me cases we got cases okay i won't know what's happening in britain i want to have more the military the media is very similar as to the us in not reporting uh it belittles the subject and it's criminal and there is very little or no difference in the uk to the us this is a world phenomenon that we're discussing you all know it way better than we do absolutely we've heard testimony now three days and read a month leading up to this videos and miss howe yeah and it's up really for all of you and i think you ended your presentation on something like this what and why is such a profound

1:28:09 reality yes not being built upon internalized if i have my military who comes to me and tells me they've got data experiences and other kinds of things that this is real other countries i've been on elevator and in the hotels with others from chile and peru and everywhere else in the or many places in the world when we already acknowledge that whatever it is is more significant than what we have here and obviously in britain and some of the other countries the why of it your scientific data is i think the answer is probably in a coalition of nations and not in our governments obviously because the governments know something we don't know and they aren't sharing it and it could be critical and catastrophic for the human being well let me add a postscript to yesterday's presentation

1:29:10 on bentwaters it's a major case it involved dozens of military people on a very important base i for one at least have been exposed to information from two people that within 24 hours of the jim peniston john burroughs and ed kavansak encounter with the black glassy craft with the hieroglyphic symbols on it in the forest that within 24 hours in the uk the national security agency of the united states took over everything that was happening at bandwater they testified to it this is important because it means that within 24 hours a decision had been made somewhere at some level between the united states and the uk that the united states would take precedent through the national security

1:30:11 agency okay stop we heard that we no i'm not good i don't know the scientific part of it i'm just going to take the political and what we do and what things we know about our country and the world and our relationships with various countries of the world you got to teach us something else wait let me just finish my point because i don't give me that testimony we had yesterday we all heard it we got notes and we got to read it and embellish it i want to move it to the action phase you came here to ask us to do something and we got to know how what and why haven't got there yet maybe by friday or next month or as we move this over the next couple years we'll get closer than you've got in 30 years and you're to be what you have unveiled is something is there that we're not alone i'm still learning i want to learn more about that in fact but as i learn it the existence as we know it is being jeopardized may not exist next week let alone 30 more years i was only going to your point about international versus the united states

1:31:12 it's my impression that the united for some reason politically is carrying the weight of the disclosure i don't know why other countries have bodies have craft have photographs have physical evidence but the united states going back to world war ii and decisions that were made for some reason it is this country that seems to have the pivotal weight disclosure what do you think that is us is the if it's not for real it's perceived to be the power of the world and that's exactly the reason why right right so we sit here in the power of the but it's like it's the power not of this world or we don't know how it is do you think america wants to live sir hold it hold you can't interrupt a congress person i will i will yell to you in a moment though i real because i just want to we we want to get to what we need to get to really and how we get to make it something so that we can all live

1:32:13 another hundred years or thereabouts so i'm going to yield to you mr hilton in just a second and you two i don't wanna i i'm just getting antsy up here today you all took it to every day it's another level but i hate how we trivialize this situation exactly i hate the men with the horns and all that and what my colleague read yesterday that and that's been since day one and i'm telling you it's what we know it's so profound yes and so and so real when you don't know how to deal with it you trivialize it so when people think that we're coming you all been commending us we've all taken a lot of flack and we're proud of we're servants of the people but to come here and then hear this other crap you know in my home paper as well you know i only talk to them because you can't say conspiracy as you if you're a congresswoman because they really think you're wacko but there's something out here that's been coordinated from our leadership not the president person but the office and our military and our press

1:33:13 that's a national conglomeration that continues unless we can somehow step outside of that and build some kind of coalitions and work and pray and build and speak and teach we're going to lose and what will the world be it might be those things with they've been drawn for all of my life i yield to mr hazelnut the rest of my may i make a suggestion you all i witnessed on uh monday the very what i thought it was an historic moment at the end when you were uh summing up the first day where you all said no we should have congressional hearings now for a ufologist that's an amazing thing you to say and i appreciate that tremendously but i think what i need you to do realistically as people with over 80 years experience is to say that to nbc cnn so ring up your colleagues at six o'clock today and say i'm calling a press conference collectively where all six of you say we believe in you do you think that the

1:34:15 listen we talked to the press for 10 minutes 30 minutes they take the 10 seconds that they want i know that's why it's got to be a people-to-people thing it's not going to be from the press i know that yeah but we battle the press and that is the principal reason why nobody knows this press club have you seen an article in any of this precisely why aren't they they're here they are can i just add momentarily on to my colleagues thoughts it's not so much that you're saying something on the about your reevaluation of this subject based on the knowledge that you're acquiring here and in your readings it's the cumulative effect of all of you and the people now serving in your positions that will make the change but it must begin somewhere with people taking a stand like your good selves i'd like to call on congresswoman darlene hooley congresswoman

1:35:18 thank you mr chair thank you all of you for your testimony it's been terrific when did we start sort of this whole ridicule piece yes may i take that yes it is become a research specialty of mine and it begins literally the summer of 1947. for me i began questioning this over 20 years ago how is it that my saying to you congresswoman i saw something in the sky the other day or the other night that i couldn't recognize or did something that i had never seen case closed why is it that in terms of 66 years of western journalism popular attitudes and ideas about flying saucers and little green men that you hear me make a simple and you're wired to think gee i didn't know peter had mental problems or maybe he's kind of gone mystical or

1:36:20 he wants to feel special or he wants to perpetrate a hoax or he wants to be on the oprah show or or or in the words of the late dr wilhelm reich evasion of the obvious why is it how did that happen it wasn't an accident i spent years that first wave of media i'm the only person you've ever met that has downloaded and read in order every single article the new york times has ever published on the subject of ufos extraterrestrials flying discs etc in order repeatedly looking for a pattern of reportage and it begins the week after the roswell the times didn't even deem it worthwhile to make that first report when it was that a machine of undetermined origin had crashed outside of this town in new they waited until the cover story had gone into effect

1:37:21 and i would say as a non-statistician 98 of the new york times coverage and i stress here that in 1947 even more than now the new york times was the flagship of western journalism it still is print terms the influence the times exerted over the other new was market the copley syndicate hearst all of the major american papers followed the times lead as a rule and the times hit the floor with all four wheels spinning every coverage and i will be happy to send you an unpublished paper on this if you're curious anybody on the committee was sarcastic condescending ridiculing explaining away like a parent to a bad child almost immediately they start to trot out authorities often unnamed often very contemptuous of the subject because overwhelmingly they're astronomers and um

1:38:25 psychologists you can't you would actually laugh if you read some of these articles they're breathtaking in their ignorance and pseudo science now what i did was i overlaid on that timeline of these several hundred authentic fully vetted declassified documents from every agency you can imagine and i would say it's about a 95 rate as you go through these where you see these silly headlines and goofy excuses and then you see um air force intel well starting in september of 47 air force intelligence uh army intelligence cia we are concerned these are not soviet they may be extraterrestrials by the way two words at the time in 1947 um and so on and what happened was it was drummed into the minds of

1:39:27 editors reporters that this is the way this thing is reported now again i stress these are the nationals the locals as peter said have almost had an inquiring mind and acted independently actually searching for i cannot prove i couldn't offer you a shred of real evidence of why i think this is and how it but deductive reasoning a lot of study and common sense suggests to me that a number of key individuals in the truman administration either with the understanding of the president or not to preserve plausible deniability either with the coordination of the study group that had formed around the president in or not went to new york to boston to los angeles to meet with people like david sarnoff of nbc the owners of the times the hearst people and one of several

1:40:29 things passed they basically said we're a little concerned based on that old bugaboo of orson welles in 1938 mass panic you know everybody's worried about the russians right now the president would consider it a personal favor if you kind of toe the line on and just treat it not seriously or in some cases possibly saying because these were major players these folks were power brokers and among the most influential people in the country at the time that we need your assistance it's your patriotic duty now once that pattern was set into place what reporter that picks up on the reality of this and wants to do a serious piece of reportage is going to risk their career we all know it's a joke now to a great degree that pattern is still stuck in the major media it is changing but that i believe is how it began and one of thank you i think i have one minute left i'll

1:41:30 anyone that would like to tackle this question um we've got a problem and time-wise okay serious problem all i yield back my one minute thank you thank you very much and i would ask my colleague i hope you make a make that up somewhere yes oh yeah you know where we're going to make it up we're not going to eat today if we keep it up we're going to have we're going to have the food of not much more can i make can i make this i'd like to ask my colleague if he could uh restrict his time i'm going to wipe my time out because we've been liberal in letting the witnesses express themselves and that's of course why we're here for you to express yourself but here here too since this doesn't work maybe this works when you see me doing that that wind it down intelligently thank you can i make just a brief close to what he was saying and that is that one year after the july 47 crashes there was another one in aztec

1:42:31 new mexico in march of 1948 and the editor of the farmington at the time did receive from all that we have been able to learn did receive a request by somebody in the pentagon to not report about what had happened that there was distinct pressure put on to a local editor and i believe that that is the way that defense department and local media there there began uh that was shortly after world war ii and so the population was less and the local media were much much more inclined to take some requests by the pentagon thank you and i yield to uh congressman uh mike cook and merrill cook i'm sorry thank you thank you mr chair peter davenport you indicated you

1:43:33 received about 86 000 um incidents i guess uh over the years about three to five thousand a year your list here of 62. uh and i appreciate that you went back to 1936 on the first one and i noticed that uh probably 55 or more or more recently probably in the last 15 or 16 years is i take it this might be a top 62 hit list or something of incidents that you think i mean and so what i'm really asking is what was the standard that you use for including these and they are certainly interesting uh events and sightings thank you for the question congressman cook there were several criteria the drama involved with the sighting the of corroboration the degree of but in essence i drew up that list as a from the 86 000 cases for the

1:44:34 committee's benefit to show you some of the more dramatic well-founded cases that we have in our and you like others that have studied this would probably say that a high percentage of the 86 000 that you've are probably not credible i mean it doesn't take a very high percentage to make a really important case here so we're trying to get a sense of what you think would be a credible percentage of all those numbers it's very difficult to quantify that i've attempted to do it but the difficulty is it is very difficult to know for sure with a hundred percent accuracy what is a genuine ufo sighting and what is not well i think you've put together some very good work on sightings of ufos so i'm going to jump to the next thing and until i saw the last statement i was sort of accepting this but i have to say and it's not too different

1:45:36 the concern that i think congressman bartlett expressed earlier uh you said here the back without indicating e.t aspects of these sightings now maybe there are some that you just didn't include in this list but but it's a fact that we have uh this is the e.t is real and i'm just asking you how how well let me ask you this isn't it a leap to say okay ufos exist it's dark there's well dr bartlett has indicated and then saying it's e.t i mean aren't there other explanations for ufos are there no other explanations is it the only explanation that's what i'm asking yep probably not the only explanation i have to say that because we don't have a answer yet to what we're dealing with but it is difficult for me to imagine that some of the craft and some of the circumstances that are reported to our are of terrestrial origin just given the

1:46:39 flight characteristics of many of the craft reported to us in other words probably in these 62 you would say it's the best explanation is that what you're saying and is that why they get included on the list is if you think it's the best explanation for e.t or you're just saying hey there was credibility we don't know what it was yet but there clearly they saw something it's very strange i mean you have some et index that you're applying to this list i take it or you wouldn't said that at the end yeah i would not have included those cases in that list had they not been of extreme interest to me based i am a scientist trained in that capacity and i would not have included those cases in that list had they not had associated with them good solid hard objectives as part of your scientific training you are saying here but it's still a leap the belief in the ufo and knowing

1:47:39 without a doubt that it's e.t yeah i would say yes i would say but i want to make sure i hear this correct and really i want you to say what you truthfully believe and think based on your experience clearly you've had a lot of time to think about this a lot and you are obviously an impressively trained scientist i i i i would characterize it like that not so much as a leap as a step in that direction and if these craft are not of extraterrestrial origin i have no explanation for them craft that can hover motionless for five above phoenix craft that can accelerate at a rate so fast that it's reported from multiple witnesses their eyes could not follow the craft as it departed i understand the maneuvering that you're saying and it's certainly the best maybe in your mind best explanation i'd like to go to gary hazeltine have to say that i'm

1:48:40 particularly impressed with your list of sightings and the reason i'm impressed is because they're from policemen every one of this this is a pretty thick list a lot of them so i imagine the credibility on your list you would rank is certainly higher than what many people that collect data would uh would indicate or just you know i don't want to put any words in your no no no you you've actually highlighted something that i hope to be able to and i think the real answer is that when i said to you before that the accepted figure is three percent after after investigation well that's not really the end of it because i would argue that in the high caliber witness categories high caliber i would mean astronauts cosmonauts pilots uh military and commercial radar operators sonar operators in these very high caliber witness the percentage after investigation would much much higher than that three percent

1:49:41 i would hazard a guess that if you looked at military pilots with with millions of dollars spent on their uh training the the percentage of error would be much reduced and i would hazard a guess that it would be something in the region of 80 plus were accurate okay then i'm going to quickly ask you well i'm not going to ask you because i only have a minute left but i'm going to say certainly credibility of people like captain solace who's sitting here absolutely i mean that probably caused the united states air force to come up filters over their icbm silos is certainly going to be incredible well i i think that's where we need to look when we look at collective evidence i'm sorry to catch you but i don't try i'm going to ask uh miss howe um very interesting slides very interesting uh nevada proving ground uh dugway utah i'm from utah talk about secrets let's talk about nuclear testing secrets

1:50:44 could nuclear testing have a lot to do with these animal carcasses and the bloodless isn't that a our first test was in july of 1945. there are mutilation records going back as i said to 1911. okay good answer um let me ask you this though the one thing that maybe i i i scratched my hand out a little bit for a statement well i scratched my head on a lot i'll have to say that uh that it absolutely is evidence of genetic harvesting i mean that may be your belief that may be something that you you say there's no it's not are you saying there's no possibility it could be anything but genetic harvesting what slides are showing we're not in the context of belief here at all we're in the context of hard physical medical the purpose how that was how carcass ended up the way it was is what

1:51:45 i'm asking that has to be you're saying that's proof absolute 100 percent proof to the extent that uh that the law of gravity is is pretty much proven uh the next harvesting the next round of the hearing is documents and there have been leaked documents from inside our own government in which the phrase extraterrestrial biological entities with the acronym all caps ebes has been included since at least a printing of what i think is a document that none of have found any dispute over the psalm 101 document with a 1954 war office stamp on it and if our government going back to fdr which there are also leaked documents about uh the discussion between fdr and uh the secretary of war marshall after the 19 february 1942

1:52:48 made the front page of the los angeles the photograph of our artillery and beams going up to a diamond-shaped distributing some 1417 bullets and then having that discussed in documents by franklin delano with the secretary of war and that in those documents that have been leaked it uses the terms these were interplanetary celestial and that we were retrieving these craft because we wanted to examine them that puts a context here again that would be before the war well i appreciate your telling me that that's interesting to me but you don't allow any of the wiggle room that for example mr davenport seems to allow in terms of final conclusions and and that's certainly your

1:53:48 right because you've looked at these things a lot more than i have i want to get the best information i can as credibly put together as i can to help as i said break down the truth embargo that's what we need to do first and maybe we have to do it a brick at a time