Citizen Hearing 2013: A Global Phenomenon, Part 1

0:03 so if you're prepared to affirm that would you please stand and we'll wait for antonio just for the cameras and if you could raise your hand i appreciate that too you're welcome to repeat this in your native language as well i do hereby affirm that i will tell the truth and i will thank you i'd like to welcome this panel thank you very much for coming this morning we had people from south i'm looking forward to now hearing from people from around the world and appreciate you taking your time to be here today what i would like you to do is give your opening statements and i think we'll have everyone on the panel do that

1:04 and then we'll go back to the people at this podium and they will ask questions after you get through with your opening statements so um would you like to start first thank you i am dr roberto pinotti a sociologist a retired aerospace journalist and a nephrologist as well i was born in 1944 in venice and i live in florence italy as a political science university in 1967 i founded chaintrophological which is the most authoritative youth research team and one of the five oldest civilian youth organizations still active in touch with aeronautical military the italian air force since 1947 italy experienced more than 12 000 ufo events and four major

2:06 ufo waves in 1950 1954 1973 and 1978 and iron out community italiana faced them seriously in the 60s and 70s i also developed discrete but important personal contacts with soviet util and i visited them in moscow in 1974. in 1978 joseph allen heineck the former consultant for the united states air force project blue book asked me to represent his center for rufus studies in italy i was already an italian correspondent nycap april and mufon during the cold war in 1971 and 1972 i had been an officer in the italian hermes nato third myself brigade and as such i had been ordered to prepare an official ufo presentation for the

3:07 staff of my unit the text of which was later published in the italian army magazine back to civilian life after my i had been also asked to cooperate as a consultant on ufos by italian army intelligence officer colonel michelangelo privitera in florence in 1978 um iron kun began to interact also with the italian air force in rome due to the amazing italian ufo of that year with over 2 000 ufo sightings report among so many reliable ufo experiences pilots flight military personnel journalists and scientists as well as common people in 1978 i directly witnessed for three hours and also photographed near perugia some as darling-like ufo phenomena

4:09 interacting with our group of 11 since then and as a result of this wave and of a parliamentary question mentioning me and c.u.n our center the italian air reporter general siguretza was charged by our government's premier julio andreoti to you for phenomena in italy regularly then in 1980 i was invited by the house of lords in london to lecture for them about the italian 1978 ufo wave latter the italian air force magazine the text of my london speech and asked me to write articles about ufos for this official publication regularly in 1980 in 1981 i also started to cooperate with the french government's ufo state commission japan in toulouse between 1985

5:09 and 1995 i was involved as a sociologist in an italian aerospace firm working on space architecture and habitability projects with the university of florence for alenia spazzio the italian space agency and the european space agency and i presented several scientific papers in different aerospace congresses in particular a couple of my papers were highly appreciated by the seti scientists during the international astronomical federation congresses in 1988 and 1999. i also investigated directly the roswell and philip corso cases in the united states and also the case for ancient india's vimana air vehicles in pakistan in 1993 i started with the government of the republic of san marino an annual double world symposium about seti

6:11 and youth research destined to be the most important event of this kind in during the last 21 years besides in 1994 we translated released and published the kgb ufo dossier we received from our russian and were officially tanked by our since 1995 our international ufo magazine started in 1966 began to be distributed and sold in italian nuisance and in 1997 a 1600 page multimedia youth encyclopedia edited by me was published in italy and spain since 1973 i wrote and published 35 books about ufos and related subjects also published abroad in 2000 in 2012 the nature of the youth problem was even

7:12 in a popular comic book with me as the principal character apart from this in 2000 the italian air force sent an official delegation in their uniforms headed by the republic general secretary's chief general aldo oliveiro to present their ufo data during the submarine symposium later i was allowed in different occasions to consult their files in rome that is about 400 military ufo dossier in 40 years in my books i publish the of most of these files ranging from rather visual sightings and intercepting actions by pilots to evidence and from physical traces cases to youthful endings and close encounters with their occupants nevertheless not all the case not all cases may be found in this archives archives such as the event occurred in the president of italy's private

8:13 at castelgad portiano on august the 20th 1963 and some other ghost cases as a good friend of the late roman catholic theologian monsignor who wrote the prophase to one of my books i am well informed about the vatican ufo and et attitudes and i also lectured about all inside the vatican city also recently on the 24th of april of this year in 2000 we exposed in san marino important historical documents verified by forensic analysis written in 1936 about italian youth reports in the 30s showing the first government who faced the ufo problem in the world was really the italian government in with a secret scientific team created by and headed by guliamo marconi to study

9:13 unconventional flying vehicles as new enemy weapons from another country in europe besides recent historical studies confirm the visual evidence of the presence of ufos also in italian paintings in my opinion the intelligent of ufo phenomena is evident and the extraterrestrial hypothesis and ufology is today stronger stronger to conclude this year after the second official philatelic issue of a san marino stamp about ufos delegates from 10 different countries italy france usa switzerland hungary bulgaria romania spain norway and cuba proposed to create an international new for documentation center in san marino and presented during the symposium a common and definite scientific proposal for future and needed extraterrestrial contact protocols this will be a good basis for a necessary

10:13 approach to exo-diplomacy the future scenario for human civilization thank you thank you i think we're just going to go down the road down the row and then we will come back and ask questions uh dr shelly welcome thank you congresswoman congressman ladies and gentlemen good afternoon my name is i am from the people's republic of china i am the president of the world chinese ufo federation our federation serves as a communication platform for the global chinese on all aspects of ufo

11:16 including laws in mainland china hong kong and taiwan and abroad billion people in china and on top of that we also have a lot of overseas that means we have a very big federation i also wanted to point out that the chinese people consider as the descendants of dragon and dragon is from out of space in the chinese culture so in the chinese we are from uh out of space as descendants of dragon secondly we call our land as the land of deities or the land of god and another principle in the chinese which is also important is that we seek the harmony between

12:17 people and heaven so descendants of the dragon the land of deities and the harmony between people and heaven are very relevant with the hearing that is taking place today my career is in international affairs and international economics and i have been working in the government i have been a diplomat and a university professor but since the 1970s i started to spend time on the subject of ufo and the study of the mysteries of the universe since the establishment of the china ufo institute in 1980 i have been actively involved in the leadership of the largest ufo organization in the world and the of the world chinese ufo federation so i been a witness to the history of china

13:20 ufo research and also a spokesperson or an advocate if you will since 1990s i participated in a series of international conferences in asia europe north america south and many other places engaging in academic exchanges i've also been interviewed by many international media on china ufo research development this media include ap bbc cnn nbc wall street journal new york times los angeles times christian science monitor times magazine and the most prestigious science and technology channel discovery of course in addition to that for many years we have also been interviewed by the chinese state media xinhua and the cctv and many other chinese

14:24 so for the past 33 years it's been a very hard time for chinese ufo scholars but we are still committed to the study of this subject and we have gained a lot of great results which is reflected in the following first everyone on this planet is looking for our roots in the universe we have the right to know we have the right to discover the mission of the chinese ufo scholars is to help our citizens realize and uh implement their right to know and their right to discover any attempt to cover up is unacceptable secondly statistics of the china ufo groups show that people involved in the subject of is an overwhelming scale according to our statistics in china out of 1.3 billion

15:26 people we have close to tens of millions of people who are ufo enthusiasts and those who are interested in ufo subject or believe that ufo account for half of the chinese population which is about 500 million a group of senior scholars in the china ufo research institute come from various backgrounds that scientific research agencies aerospace manufacturing astronomy and many scholars are very prestigious scholars in the society for example a scientist a scientist who is actively engaged with us mr chiang shin wong gang and mathematician mr chanding and a very uh astronomist

16:27 we are working with these people uh and um we actually have uh more than 100 000 members uh this is a very big team and we are all contributing our share to uh the study of ufo certainly after years of research a large number of chinese ufo scholars including myself are convinced the authenticity of ufo the existence of ufo and aliens to testify the of the ufo and aliens i have also written articles that have appeared in china's encyclopedia which is also a prestigious encyclopedia in china that

17:28 was edited by mr titussian a famous scientist in china so we believe the existence of ufo we believe the existence of aliens and extraterrestrials for many years after our research and we have recorded some third kind cases including the mountain incident the facial the beijing tower incident and the farm incident as well as interaction uh with the national civil aviation system and the military with uh outer space force china has the earliest and the most recorded cases of uh the third kind in the world

18:29 the earliest can be traced back to 12 000 years ago prehistoric records carved an ancient stone plate according to our studies up to 5 000 years of written history there is a wealth of suspected mystery mysterious rather ufo related data and files including ancient uh data from the ancient local government official history ancient scientific literature or in civil literary works we see all these records which prove that ufo does exist and also proves the real existence of the interaction between ufo and fifth the physical evidence of an alien ancient alien statue may be the powerful

19:33 evidence of this existence we have a number of jade statues of ancient aliens which closely resemble the aliens i have three for your reference they look very very much like aliens and our expert appraisal indicates that these schedules could have been in existence for at least 100 million this is from the studies of our geologists and archaeologists this may also be the earliest evidence of alien civilizations communication with humans or the earth and 6. in china there are thousands of alien communicators who

20:35 claim to be receiving information from out of space some of this information has very high scientific and practical value of view individual alien uh communicators claim that uh they have communicated with the universe universal source and claim to have even obtained the core secrets of the these claims are viewed as controversial we have organized a group of experts to conduct in-depth research and verification tests so far we have made some very initial results number seven my last point chinese ufo scholars have independently or cooperatively with scientists and inventors in the design the manufacturer the experiment of dozens of high-performance discs shaped artifact with all new power systems

21:38 at the same time we have conducted r d on many important state-of-the-art technology including new energy environmental protection and pollution at the same time we are doing research in high-tech areas which includes pollution treatment disaster prevention and mitigation medicine and health engineering as well as genetic engineering we have also participated in the of finding a solution to a series of problems but our scholars recognize that the study of the sky is for the benefit of the ground we're doing research of the outer space because we want to benefit the earth we are not from out of space

22:39 but we are concerned about what's going on out we are not saviors but we are doing our study because we are trying to find a solution to the problems that we face on this earth we're not einstein but our mission is to transcend what he has done and to find the solution to solve the common problems that we face on earth today and to find the truth and to meet a new era of civilization thank you just want to remind all of you we're going to come back for questions after all of you have given their opening statements so mr cameron from canada thank you um some of what i have is repetitive of yesterday so i'm just going to summarize just the first part of my testimony

23:41 which you have i have added however some documents which are handwritten files here which i'll refer to near the end as i mentioned yesterday the records for the canadian investigation all these records are online the canadian government does not dispute any of the material that is online it should be pointed out i believe that the canadian investigation from 1950 to 1954 was the most open investigation of any in the world uh in fact they didn't even use the word ufo they used the word flying saucers and flying discs it was very open in 1954 as i'll explain an incident occurred it was shut down the lights went off and that was the end of it my testimony is based on these files and also on the personal files of wilbert b smith who was the superintendent of radio regulations for the department of and who also headed the government ufo basically what the story comes down to it centers around the top secret memo

24:41 which i described yesterday the canadians went to the americans in they wanted to find out what the americans knew about the flying saucer and they threw the military attache at the canadian embassy and through the canadian embassy they made inquiries to officials at the research and development board and all that material was summed up and put in the top secret memo which i put on record yesterday and basically it was summed up saying that the americans notified the canadians flying saucers were real it was the most highly classified subject in the united states rated two points higher than the hydrogen bomb a small group headed up by president roosevelt's former science advisor van ovar bush was in charge of the investigation the fourth point was the american officials considered the matter to be of tremendous significance and the fifth the american officials notified the canadians that other things might be associated with the saucers such as mental phenomena and this mental phenomena aspect was

25:42 later confirmed by two high-level american sources uh smith left his his personal records uh which we recovered and it showed that he was in contact with vanivar bush the fl the canadian flying saucer investigation shows that besides tracking citing reports a flying saucer detection station which i think we have a photo of had been set up on a property provided by the defense research board in canada where the canadians were trying to uh detect a flying saucer and actually did on august the 8th 1954. the canadians also and this was announced in a speech by paul hellyer in 1967 when he was the defense minister that in 1954 the canadians actually opened up a base a top-secret base at suffield alberta for flying saucers to land the canadians had made contact they had initiated a contact which i can describe

26:43 where they wanted to fly over the flying saucer observatory which it did and they had plans which were approved at one point by the prime minister of canada the royal canadian minor police and the department of defense to land a flying saucer at suffield alberta on august 8 1954 the flying saucer observatory recorded an unknown object flying over and this can actually be seen in fbi documents that describe the the planning for this when this was written up in the press the the flying saucer investigation was completely shut down nothing really happened all the in the canadians followed the american lead in the 1960 in the late 1960s they shut the program down all the files are moved to the national research council the files today are actually sent to a researcher in my city in winnipeg manitoba canada none of the top secret not the secret but all the sighting reports are actually sent to an investigator from the canadian government and that investigator puts out a report every

27:43 based upon those sightings and other sightings that he gets after wilder smith's personal files were made public in 1982 more details related to the united states canadian joint flying saucer investigation were made public smith's letters showed that he was receiving ufo hardware from the united states authorities to analyze when i asked his metallurgist arthur bridge how much material they had actually handled handled he replied tons of it in interviews with smith shortly before his death he told a group of visiting researchers from ohio that the united states military has tons of hardware and they also had much smith spelled out to researchers that the hardware was controlled by u.s government officials and not the u.s air force smith's oldest son testified on record a number of times that his father confirmed to him before he died that he had been shown a downed flying saucer and the bodies by american smith's files were identi identified two

28:45 sources dr vanvar bush and dr robert sarbacher who these are the letters i'd like to refer to now dr robert sarbacher was identified by the saturday evening post as the boy genius he ran the washington institute of technology he was the dean of uh graduate studies georgia tech and in the 1950s he co-authored a university textbook on hyper and ultra high frequency engineering for uns us universities uh he was one of the main contacts that the canadians were put in contact with and you can see on the opening of the notes here i have highlighted one particular point because one of the congressmen brought up yesterday whether we have a document that actually talks about alien bodies this is a transcript that wilbur smith made of the interview that was done at the canaan embassy in september of 1950 and he's talking to sarbacher

29:45 and the question he asks and i have highlighted there i have read scully's book on the saucers and would like to how much of it is true the scully book was a book written on crash flying saucers it reported to be a crash at aztec new mexico in march of 1948 recovering of bodies and a craft smith asked sarbacher how much of this book is true sarbacher's reply is the facts reported in the book are substantially correct i'd also like to refer to you what happened was in 1982 wilbur smith's files were made public and everybody learned the fact that sarbacher was the main witness in the united states providing material to the canadians and everybody started to chase him stanton friedman has an extensive audio interview with him on that that you can actually get on the internet i refer you to a letter here from the washington institute of technology this is to a researcher in bill steinman who writes to dr sarbacher

30:46 and trying to confirm to him is this true is what is the the deal here saubacher had stanton friedman that what had happened was in 1950 there was a briefings at wright patterson air force base of a down saucer and bodies that he couldn't go to the meeting but he was in the navy office in washington d.c and listened to all the high-ranking scientists who had come back from the briefing and told him what was going on in this letter on page two he basically uh i recall the interview with dr bremner at the canadian embassy uh i think i gave the answers so he confirms this these handwritten briefings that i or notes that i showed you he said the only thing i can remember is that certain materials reported to come from flying saucers were extremely light and very tough i'm sure the laboratories analyzed them and then he confirms in this letter that he signs in 1983 that there were bodies that he was told about bodies in the uh interview with stanton friedman he's

31:47 a little more specific but you have a letter here of a high-ranking uh american official that the canadians got in contact with that confirmed that the americans did have bodies and they did have a craft what he did and this is the last part of my um stanton friedman was talking to him and he said can you tell me who was at the meeting he identified a number of people all the people that he identified were dead until he came to the fact that there was one person from pennsylvania who was at all the meetings and knew what was going on that engineer eric walker confirmed to bill steinman that he had attended the wright-patterson air force meetings walker had held many top jobs such as 15 years as the president of penn state uh he was chairman of the board of the institute for defense analysis the top military think tank used by the department of defense he was chairman of the national science he was executive secretary of the research and development board and headed the navy's applied research lab at

32:47 state college pennsylvania in discussions with more than half a dozen researchers over eight years dr walker tried not to talk about the subject but he did confirm that there were et recoveries communication with aliens and that there was a secret control group that was overseeing the entire subject after dr walker's death his son brian walker confirmed that there had been a that contained a number of official government documents he claimed he did not read them he recalls that there were drawings but did not mention whether it was of bodies or disks he claimed that the file containing the information in pen there was information about a crash in pennsylvania and one in the western united states he thinks he just his father destroyed the file before his death because when he moved the files from the from the house to penn state university the file was no longer there and that's my statement thank you thank you mr pope welcome back thank you

33:50 madam chair representative senator um you should all have a printed out copy of my opening statement but uh with your permission i'll read it onto the record okay thank you the uk ministry of defense is an organization broadly analogous to the us department of defense and has a dual role both as a policy-making department of state and as the uk's highest level military headquarters i worked there for 21 years as a three of you which were spent on mod's ufo project that's a job i had from 1991 to 1994. the mods ufo project ran from 1953 to 2009 and in that time over twelve thousand sightings were mod's role here was to research and investigate the phenomenon to determine whether there was evidence of any potential threat to the defense of the uk or anything of more general defense the uk's interest in ufos had its roots

34:52 in concerns that some objects might be foreign military aircraft on reconnaissance missions or on missions to test the capabilities and effectiveness of our air defense network both in terms of radar and air defense aircraft the work we did was very similar to the work done by the u.s government's ufo program embedded in the united states air force on under a number of different project names the best known of which was project blue book the uk's program had no formal project our conclusions were that most sightings could be explained as misidentifications of known objects or phenomena however around five percent appeared to defy conventional explanation and were of considerable interest we took no position on the nature of these sightings and remained open-minded as to the possibilities accordingly while we were aware of no evidence that would support the theory that any ufo sightings were attributable to extraterrestrial life

35:53 we didn't entirely rule out that it was regarded as a low probability high consequence scenario which is why from time to time the possibility was at least considered in internal mod discussions despite the wider societal implications mod's interest was narrowly focused on technology acquisition scientific and technical intelligence experts in mod's defense intelligence were not averse to speculating about exotic energy sources propulsion systems or aerodynamics in relation to ufos and perhaps the most graphic illustration of this was a defense intelligence staff document from 1995 which read in part if the sightings are of devices not of this earth then their purpose needs to be established as a matter of priority there has been no apparent hostile intent and other possibilities are one military reconnaissance two

36:55 scientific three tourism the uh intent was practical as the document went on to set out quote we could use this technology if it though we accepted ufo reports from everyone and indeed the vast majority of those reports came to us from the public the sightings that were of most interest were those where the witnesses were police officers pilots or military personnel and when i say pilots i mean both civil aircraft pilots and military pilots we were also particularly interested in sightings where there was some corroborative evidence e.g in terms of radar data or a photograph or film that specialist imagery analysis staff could evaluate of particular concern to us were a number of incidents where there were near misses between ufos and commercial there are several such cases in the mods ufo files and in the files of the civil aviation authority which is a uk government

37:55 agency broadly equivalent to the us faa the uk's best known and most compelling ufo incident is a series of sightings that occurred in december 1980 collectively known as either the rendelsham forest incident or the bentwaters incident and the committee has already taken evidence on on this in the late 90s the mod's defense intelligence staff commissioned a review of many of the ufo sightings that mod had investigated over the years this intelligence analysis was known as project condyne which was a randomly generated code word and this attempted some trend analysis of the reports received as opposed to reinvestigation of individual cases the final report was published in the year 2000 and ran to over 400 pages the title was aerial phenomena in the uk air defense the mod often uses the phrase uap unidentified aerial phenomenon in internal correspondence so as to

38:58 avoid the unfortunate stigma that comes from the term ufo at the time project condyne's final report was classified secret ukis only its controversial conclusion was that some ufo sightings might be attributable to exotic atmospheric plasmas and that there might be novel military e.g in terms of directed energy weapons that might merit further study again the air safety implications of the phenomenon were judged to be an important part and one recommendation of the study read as no attempt should be made to outmaneuver a uap during interception another recommendation stated at higher altitudes although uap appear to be benign to civil air traffic pilots should be advised not to maneuver other than to place the object a stern if possible a redacted version of project condy's final report was made available to the in may 2006 following a number of

40:00 freedom of information act requests there is in the uk as in the us a widely held belief that the authorities know more about ufos than they're telling the i.e there's a cover-up and a conspiracy on the subject i think there are two relevant factors here firstly the mod was and still is an inherently secretive organization despite the introduction of the uk's freedom of information act secondly it was the long-standing policy of the mod to downplay the extent of the department's interest and the scope of our official research and investigation not all of which especially post freedom of information act generated the paper trail that one might expect and hope for to give a practical example of this we consistently told the uk's parliament the media and the public that ufos were of limited interest and no defense significance unquote while highly classified intelligence studies such as project condyne

41:01 were being carried out away from public that said despite the secrecy and despite the downplaying of mod's ufo-related work i'm not aware of any cover-up or conspiracy in the sense that proponents of such theories mean mld's ufo project was terminated in 2009 as part of a wider series of defense cuts and while the public no longer have an official point of contact for their sightings pilots can and do continue to make on an ad hoc basis though they tend to avoid the phrase uf ufo or indeed uap and in my experience now tend to use phrases such as unusual in 2007 the mod made a policy decision to declassify and release its entire archive of ufo files following a similar decision by made by the french government in 2007 this five-year program in which i've been personally involved began with the release of the first batch of files in

42:01 may 2008 subsequent batches followed and the program reaches its climax this year to date over 50 000 pages of documents have been sent to the uk's national the uk and france are two of a number of nations that have opened their ufo files in response to pressure from media and the public and again the committee's had some testimony on that in concluding i should say that i do not have a single neat explanation for the ufo and neither am i aware that anyone in the uk government has or had reached a definitive conclusion however having undertaken three years of official uk government research and into the ufo phenomenon my belief my assessment is that whatever the true nature of the phenomenon it raises important defense national security and air safety issues additionally as pointed out in project condyne's final report there are potential novel technology

43:02 applications and military applications that may result from a proper scientific study of the phenomenon and finally and perhaps most importantly in relation to this event and i think we heard it most graphically with the testimony from sergeants peniston and burroughs and their ongoing quest for their medical i think it's clear that again whatever the nature of this phenomenon this mystery there are issues of political accountability open government and freedom of information here thank you thank you very much thank you if i may call you antonio and welcome thank you so good afternoon distinguished members and panelists of the citizen hearing on ufos today we're discussing official investigation investigations from various countries around the world among those nations that have conducted some kind of official ufo research besides the united states and south

44:03 america which have been dealt in previous sessions we can mention russia the united kingdom belgium spain italy sweden denmark ukraine poland australia and new zealand to cite a few we have with us experts that will discuss or had just some of these countries like italy the canada and china but no representatives from the other nations so i will cover briefly the history of official investigations of two particularly important countries france and russia which have a rich of material in this field let's start with friends a country that has one of the oldest and most rational approaches to the ufo some military investigations in france go back to the 50s but the current program really took off in the mid 70s when a series of important steps were taken by the french government in 1974 the minister of defense

45:05 robert galley admitted in a famous radio that quote the mass of reports coming in from the gendarmerie were pretty disturbing the minister added that quote i believe that the attitude of that we must adopt vis-a-vis the is an open one that is to say that it doesn't consist in denying a priori as our ancestors of centuries did deny many things that seem perfectly elementary end quote the national legend are marie which is a national police force similar to our state troopers had been investigating ufo incidents since the 60s including a famous ufo landing and close encounter of the third kind ce3 cases where humanoid beings or ufo occupants are seen in connection with the sighting in valencia in 1965 ten years later the gendarmerie formalized its ufo protocols

46:05 by issuing instructions that gendarmes throughout the french territory including those overseas like french guiana or reunion island in the indian should respond and investigate any ufo incident reported by french citizens these protocols are still current in 1977 the institute of high studies of national defense or ihedn a key think tank of the french released an important study which recommended the establishment of a permanent agency to study ufos this was accomplished later that year when the cnas the french space agency equivalent to our nasa created the study group of unidentified aerospace phenomena japan under the direction of aerospace engineer claude poger who had conducted ufo research on his own for a number of years one of his first tasks was to conduct a statistical study of 354 ufo cases collected by the gender

47:07 25 percent of which remained unexplained on the morning of january 8 1981 japan's most important case took place a ufo landed on the property of a farmer in transient provence in the var region of southwest france although the case had only one the farmer renato nicolai the case became important because of the physical evidence left by the ufo on the alfalfa field which was analyzed scientifically by a number of french among other things the alfalfa leaves lost from 30 to 50 percent of and the traces on the terrain were still 40 days after the event according to the official report stranger still was what an official japan chart and i don't know if we have it on the i had given it previously so hopefully it will appear on the screen the chart stranger was what an official japan

48:08 chart characterized as quote time space effect professor bunyas one of the scientists who conducted the analysis explained that while the plants were physiologically young after the ufo landing they presented and i'm quoting now the biochemical characteristics of leaves of an advanced aged old leaves so in other words there were young plants after the ufo landed they became biochemically old and that according to the scientists doesn't happen in nature the final conclusion of the japan chart was quote physical phenomenon of unexplained high probability of electromagnetic mode of propulsion despite this and other significant cases investigated and documented by japan the agency was downgraded in the mid 80s and the name was changed to sepra an acronym for the re-entry of atmospheric objects although the agency continued to investigate ufo cases

49:09 under the direction of jean-jacques velasco who was the case investigator of the transient provence incident in 2007 however a new reorganization took place and the name was changed again to jaipan so they added an eye there study and information group of unidentified aerospace phenomena japan also launched a comprehensive and began the process of releasing all of its documents which are now available within the cns portal that's this french space agency parallel to the official jaipan and zhendar marie investigations there has also been some highly interesting semi-official reports from groups connected to the french military intelligence and aeronautical establishment the first and most famous one was the so-called cometa report of 1999 entitled ufos and defense what should we prepare for although not an official government

50:10 report in the strict sense of the word cometa was composed of a group of retired high-ranking military and intelligence officers under the direction of retired major general dennis letty their conclusion that ufos were definitely real and most likely of extraterrestrial origin were very strong more recently another quasi-official the 3af which stands for the aeronautical and astronomical association of france created a high-level study group known as the sigma commission under the direction of alain boudier sigma has recently completed a long again confirming the existence of a real ufo phenomenon of likely et origin from all of this briefly outlined in this presentation you can see that the french are undoubtedly among the leading nations to conduct significant ufo research both officially and semi-officially instead of burying their heads in the pretending that the ufo phenomenon

51:11 doesn't exist or is not important france the cradle of rationalism in the modern era have taken an aggressive approach towards service solving this phenomenon let me outline now very briefly the history of ufo research in russia and the old soviet union in the early days of communism the subject of ufos was heavily censored although some research was conducted privately by a few scientists such as the late professor felix ziegle an astronomer with the moscow aviation institute who is considered the father of russian mythology things began to change after a highly publicized event in petros of a dusk in carrelia northern russia in september of 1977 which led to the creation of a commission for the study of anomalous attached to the ussr academy of sciences this commission was public since it solicited reports from the soviet not known to the public however was the

52:11 second secret study conducted by the kgb and the soviet minister of defense although its existence was not revealed until after the breakdown of the ussr in 1990 eventually some military and kgb files from this commission were released in the 90s including incidents involving ufo over nuclear facilities one of the most interesting cases in the kgb file is a multiple witness ce1 close encounter of the first kind at a top secret army missile base in the district of kapustin yar astrakhan region on the night of july 28 29 1989 the file is surely incomplete but still offers an interesting glimpse into the maneuverability of ufos the dossier consists of the depositions of seven military witnesses two junior officers a corporal and four plus illustrations of the object by the and a briefcase summary by an unnamed

53:12 kgb officer one of the depositions mentions a disc shaped object moving quote in the direction of the rocket's whipped weapons depot and then hovering over the and emitting a bright beam another case from 1982 involved a series of sightings of ufos over a nuclear missile base near usovo ukraine which coincided with the malfunction of the computerized console controlling the launch of nuclear weapons this was obviously a great concern to the soviet military and is quite similar to the events at mount strom air force base in montana discussed in another session of these it is perhaps due to these kinds of incidents involving nuclear weapons that a curious clause quote unidentified objects was added to an agreement on measures to reduce the risk of nuclear war between the united states of america and the union of soviet socialist republics the agreement was part of the policy of the tant during the nixon and early

54:14 brezhnev administrations it was signed on september 30 1971 by secretary of state william rogers and foreign minister andrei gromiko the agreement has nine articles on issues such as informing each other quote against the or unauthorized use of nuclear weapons under its control notification in advance of missile launches that go beyond the national territory of each country and other measures of cooperation in order to avert quote the risk of outbreak of nuclear war article 3 reads i'm quoting the parties undertake to notify each other immediately in the event of detection by missile warning systems of unidentified objects or in the event of signs of interference with these systems or with the related communication if such occurrences could create a risk of outbreak of nuclear war between the two countries it's a good thing that they signed this

55:15 agreement several ufo cases involving russian cosmonauts have also become public over the years one of the most interesting was a report by cosmonaut major general vladimir from the solute 6 space station on may 5 1981 the sighting of a pulsating round object which resembled a melon that's his quote and then became like a barbell and didn't resemble any cosmic objects i'm familiar with was on the record in a videotaped interview by the cosmonaut many years later another cosmonaut major general pavel even became at one point the president of the all union ufology association of the commonwealth of independent states a quote from a 1992 paper by general popovich provides an appropriate ending to this brief presentation he wrote quote the ufo sightings have the constant component of human activity

56:17 and require a serious global study in order to realize the position of man on earth and in the universe ufology the scientific study of the ufo phenomenon should take place in the midst of other dealing with man and the world thank you very much uh we're going to go through one round of questions and we will each of you get five minutes and then when we come back after break you'll have another chance to go through so let's start with the representative cook thank you madam chair let's uh i'd first like to ask a question of our witness from the uk nick pope i remember some of your

57:17 biography from yesterday but remind me you did work for the ministry of defense in the uk you are currently not working for the ministry of defense am i correct on that correct sir i left in 2006 2000 and then you've been very involved in this study of ufos since that time since you left while you were there and certainly you've been involved since you left yes sir in a private capacity in a private capacity i understand at this time okay the uh and of course you're telling us and this is really interesting to me that the ministry of defense's project on ufos lasted from 1953 which is essentially the same year close to when project blue book in the united states started but you went all the way to 2009 in the uk with your project although you don't have a fancy name for it or any name for it am i right yes sir if if you'll excuse the pun i think we were

58:19 even worsely resourced um as than project okay but but you collected uh you you've had you've investigated 12 000 and i guess it was 2007 or currently at least over 50 000 pages of documents have been sent to the archives for scholars like yourself and any other scholar here to be looking at am i correct so they're open files they aren't um well let's explain tell me what i don't want to put words in your mouth what are those files are they and closed kind of high clearance to get it to what i go ahead the material is at the uk national archives website and uh i'm afraid to say there is a small charge for for access but having said that if you're prepared to pay that small charge they're all open but many of the investigators here that have been witnesses would have no problem with that small charge i'm sure yes sir uh so i can imagine

59:21 you being as interested as you are i've looked at a lot of these documents or maybe you've even read every one of them i don't know would you explain what to what extent you've analyzed this when i did that job i made it my business to research back into the archive and look at the documents so i went right back to the and and indeed though the formal project started in 1953 we did uh have a look at some sightings on an ad hoc basis even before then and indeed we had reports during the second world war at the time the phrase foo fighters was used for these things and you all you described uh what you felt was the feeling of mod at least when you were in the of giving some but low probability of origins to the ufo that were studied am i correct and yes you testified too i i think it's more you said low uh

1:00:23 probability but high consequence certainly nobody would question high consequence some might question low priority but was that their official position after with all this work done i i think it was more a case sir that we couldn't rule that possibility out we said it was a sort of non-zero um possibility but now i'm particularly interested not in the official ministry because i know how politics works and as you say i've never said this these are your words sir the uk acts like a lap dog to the united states okay so here's what i'm gonna ask you what's your opinion after all the research you've done and based on all that stuff that you've had access to is there an e.t origin to what's obvious we've been accurate or i should say sightings of real ufos now having side we're just repeating the concept that having cited a ufo is not

1:01:24 the same thing as saying there's an extraterrestrial component i want to know your opinion of that based on all that stuff that you have investigated i think sir i would say that the evidence doesn't go quite far enough for me to say personally that i am absolutely sure we're being visited but but i certainly think it is compelling enough that that um it is a a possibility i mean i know okay fair enough i've got just a minute left so i'm gonna i wanted to get to grant cameron i'll be able to do that on the second round anyway but this 1950 wilbert smith thing is showing illumination on a question i brought up i think to you or to somebody yesterday on e.t or i should say let's use the word bodies bodies witnesses talked about bodies concurrently with seeing those bodies and it's documented that they talked about it at the time not a lot later there was something

1:02:25 about wilbert smith's uh i think it was scully book would you elaborate on that if you could i think the point that you were making yesterday was in one of the documents it says uh in the project magnet report that extraterrestrials was highly probable for the for the result and that's when you asked is there any documents that actually refer to you know extraterrestrials rather than you know that it's confirmed so what what i've put forward is this idea that when the canadians went to the americans the first question they asked was related to this frank scully book that was published in 1950 this is when the interview took place and the first question he asked is scully's book about the crash of aztec new mexico is how much of that book is accurate and that's when when he says the vast majority of the material is is i know the times expired i'll probably pick up with that next round thank you thank you let's go to congresswoman kilpatrick

1:03:27 thank you madam chair i think i want to start first with mr pennaty if i'm pronouncing that correctly is the vatican and included in italy's deception i know they're acceptable to the country or are they do you interact with them do they have their own beliefs about what this phenomenon is yes consider that recently even the official term unidentified flying objects was formally translated into latin res inexplicate volantis which means exactly the same thing in the old latin this was made surely because there is a approach in the vatican and according to my personal opinion and to i happened to to see well everything began probably in 1952. mr president

1:04:28 yes i've got five minutes yes you've got one of the hands let me ask this simply simply that's my question my only question right now we're going to come in 1952. that means wait you have to wait a minute okay okay okay no the president i'm not trying to be rude help me out madam chair because just don't i want to because i want to get all them on one question yeah and i'm just trying to find we had 10 different countries today 11 counting russia and 12 if we count vaticans or whatever is absolutely uh open to this subject because recently the director of speculation which is the official uh uh astronomical observatory of the vatican said not only that surely ufos but they have to exist because otherwise this would be contradictory to the doctrine of the church of the um creation of the power of god's creation in other words we have uh to uh meet in the future aliens and we must consider them as our brothers this is exactly what

1:05:31 the official okay thank you mr penalty thank you very much sir i appreciate that i'm still not sure if one or two thoughts but i i agree with what you said thank you very much for all of you and all of your experiences and i appreciate all your testimony again we've heard from 12 different countries today and that's just an international phenomenon one question i want to ask do any of your countries have any relationship with the united states government any ngos or any non-profits where they would get all of your information or some of your information or come and get whatever you do you interact with the united states on this and have do they have some of the materials that you have collected over the years let me start with you mr hooksett um well the answer is you know i'm just reporting on the history of france and russia but i'm not uh you know i'm not their spokesman if you don't know it's okay you can say so i i i wouldn't know i would imagine that the russians and the americans have some dialogue on this but that's an

1:06:32 but no to your knowledge nothing that where russia may have had an incident and the u.s came and got some of that well i mean even from that that clause of the nuclear thing you know i mean i think there's some incidents where they they must have some connections but it certainly wouldn't be public the french as you know from your days in congress are pretty independent on their on their way of so and friends with friends right yeah i know we're allies but right allies allies but they're a little independent so i i don't think okay and i don't want anybody to speculate it's okay to say if you don't know i don't know okay but that's good enough and you're right about the relationships to our countries you're absolutely right thank you very much mr paul man there was some limited liaison between the usaf project blue book and the ministry of right up until blue book was terminated beyond that i'm not aware of anything other than ad hoc liaison our terms of reference limited our to the uk's air defense region but we did from time to time through

1:07:33 the embassies and open source get ie media get reports from other countries did a british government us government or an ngo in america or non-profit in ever come to britain and take some of the findings or oversee or analyze any findings from your country i i believe that some files were exchanged yes ma'am and i think that some of the blue book personnel made the odd visit and indeed you heard the testimony of general gabrielle of course coming in and taking items relating to rendelsham okay thank you very much mr cameron and um the canadians since 1954 have been completely silent on the subject but i would imagine based on the very close relationship between canada the united states especially with regards to nato that discussions are taking place at some interacting material but the canadians are absolutely quiet they do not say anything the american government leaks a

1:08:33 lot of material the canadian governments have said nothing since 1950 okay unlike what we heard this morning uh u.s in some instances actually went to those countries and gathered the particles the information yeah i have a story my father worked for transporter no pull the story hold the story i got one minute okay it's a good story though i know we come back forward second round i promise i'll give it to mr shelley would you comment on that china and the u.s does china share anything with our with an ngo in america or a non-profit as it relates to your findings and i love your testimony by the way 500 years and and up that's outstanding and still standing and the economic engine of the tell me does china share on this phenomenon on the extraterrestrial ufo phenomenon with the u.s at all we have some exchanges in the

1:09:39 several times they have come to me and we have conducted a high level a trilateral that involves americans russians and chinese on the ufo issue we at the meeting talked about the fact that we have to take actions and do more research in this area and suggestions were made at that to have a uh summit meeting and i was asked to start preparing for this summit meeting so for more than 10 years i have been trying to make efforts and start this summit i have been preparing for this summit meeting on ufo this time the rockefeller foundation

1:10:40 hosted this meeting that he will try to organize a very scientist group to do research and um they will make an exception a chinese person to join this group to join this expert or this and once the scientific research results in china has been acknowledged by this group it will be published and it will be acknowledged around the nowadays we have many results at hand we are trying to

1:11:42 verify those results and exchange those with other organizations so in my opinion our next step is to become more active so like me i am the chairman of the chinese ufo federation find out where those ufos are we also have to focus on the next step that is the high technology that is from outer space thank you very much thanks to all the panelists thank you thank you thank you congresswoman woolsey mr panati can you would you give us some actual examples and experiences uh that you you learned and experienced uh during your many

1:12:45 and uh total involvement with these issues my experience is part of private nature and also from the standpoint of officiality because i could consult also okay italian air force archives okay excuse me yes let's make sure that talk about what some examples with ufos or or uh yes yes et's okay exactly i um for instance just to make some we could mention this could be linked to the previous question too for instance in 1954 we had a big wave in italy and even the ambassador of the united states in rome was present at one of this phenomena for instance in 1978 we had the biggest

1:13:45 wave more than two thousand cases and in these cases we had absolutely the landing the sightings rather cases objects they were round objects with dome and in different cases we had also uh entertains on the ground uh there are but close encounters of the kind cases and also of this type what we may say is that that there is a definite pattern in other words in many cases we seem the same kind of a definite craft of a certain shape a couple of occupants and a lot of phenomena which may be related among them besides uh for instance the italian air

1:14:45 uh in different occasions uh um had uh really the close encounters with the and uh ufos in the skies of italy but since 1966 to 1978 for instance there is also a photograph of one of these subjects made by a fiat g91 fighter italian plane in other words we have a lot of materials in this 400 cases filed in the italian air force archives not only ufos in the real sense of the but also you unidentified submerged objects too because don't forget that ufos do not fly in the real sense of the world but they also interact with the hydrosphere and italy has five seas and so there are many

1:15:46 many cases in which these objects entered the water and took off from the water there are even photographers official of these cases in our country thank you so much thank you uh mr pope you say that in 2007 the mod made a policy decision to declassify and release its entire archive of ufo files how did the public respond how did the government respond how did the press respond there was extensive media congresswoman and a huge public interest to as a result on the website for example the national archives website i don't have the statistics in front of me but uh it was hundreds of thousands of hits if not more and were the responses positive or did they make fun of it a bit of both ma'am i think some people were incredibly interested

1:16:46 uh some people were concerned that taxpayers money had been spent on this at all and some people thought that the whole thing was disinformation and all the good stuff was being kept back okay thank you very much i yield my time thank you um next we have representative uh bartlett i do know your name uh is there a global website that people can go to or do you have to go to a lot of individual ones there's no master link that can tie you into all this stuff okay thank you mr panetti you mentioned you investigated roswell what does that mean and what did you include conclude simply i was here in the states in 1991 when this case were absolutely not known like today and i succeeded when they were still to counter some of the witnesses for instance uh the former lieutenant hot just to make

1:17:49 an example and other people dennis stacey and so on besides there were other links you surely know the case of colonel philip corso and all the story and what did you conclude what was your conclusion no my personal conclusion is that the case is absolutely true besides i have also a person that we were facing an extraterrestrial okay besides a very interesting km thing is this when i was a military in 1971 and 72 and i was in italy for the nato third my seal brigade i had an uniform of course and on that i was ordered to prepare a lecture for my unit and i did well i was in touch also with an american artillery because in that period of course in nato we were all together

1:18:50 and he came and told me oh lieutenant i know you are preparing this interesting lecture okay you know in the usa we have the crushed objects and even the corpses of the pilot well you can understand that in 1971 and 1972 we knew that all this were rubbish that all this did not exist only the case of scali the scally cases were known and was considered not in a positive way so frankly at that i thought that this guy was out of mind frankly today i do not know thank you mr uh shilli you said that a cover-up was unacceptable unacceptable to your organization unacceptable to your government unacceptable to your military which does your government consider cover-up

1:19:54 right it's unacceptable but now looking at what the chinese government thinks i don't think they're exactly there yet because the chinese government doesn't have as much information on et as that held by the u.s government such as the remains of these uh of these ets and so on but i can also tell you this on the issue of ufo or flying object the chinese government is still very interested we have a commander for the air force before that person takes office they would often come to me and talk to me before they take office and also a lot of people in the air force come talk to us and say that

1:20:56 oh ufo is a big issue we have to go we have to go talk to you we have to talk to the chinese ufo federation so all in all in china the people in the government see this as a military issue a security issue which is which is not entirely the same as our approach so the government is not trying to cover anything but they see this as still confidential because they think this is a national security and a military issue we have some examples here the we have been notified some sightings by the government and they seek our suggestions and opinions sometimes thank you very much thank you thank you uh mr cameron uh excuse me you have 30 30 seconds i saw the sign okay i have good eyesight um you know someone might say of a girl

1:21:57 that she has tons of lipstick on now there's tons of material that the united states is supposed to have is that figurative or literal uh i think both i figurative it was when i asked the metallurgists how much they handled he just said tons of it i mean they'd handle a lot of materials do you mean like tons of lipstick or literal tons of stuff his son tells numerous stories about seeing boxes cars coming military cars delivering there's a lot of discussion about material coming to wilbur smith for in canada the sign says my time is up another round thanks thank you um let me ask each of you to be very brief but i want to know how many of the sightings of what you know about um

1:22:57 saucers whatever you want to call them how many of those are unmanned versus manned do you know i mean is there sort of a ratio or most of these um without somebody so-called driving it because that's how far my imagination yeah that's a really good question um we don't know uh because um you know dr heineck who was the the famous uh advisor for blue book who later became very pro-ufology well he came up with the term close encounters of the third kind for those cases where besides the ufo occupants were seen this could be that sometimes if it's you are close enough to the object you may even see an occupant inside the porthole or something or maybe the object landed and the in the occupant came out but in other cases when the object is at a distance which is the majority of ufo

1:23:57 we would have no way of knowing if it's automatically piloted or not then we have cases where we have large which obviously must be manned by and then out of the large object small little probes come and those seem to be remotely vehicles you know kind of early versions of the what we today we call drones uh but but these are reported as far back as the 50s or something when certainly the americans or the russians or whatever did not have access to this kind of technology i mean this this whole thing about unmanned vehicles is fairly recent i think it goes back to maybe the 70s for the first so there is no way of but certainly there is a there is a uh there is a percentage of that that do occupants but the exact statistics because of the distances there's no way of knowing right nick do you have anything to add uh

1:24:58 madam chair of of the roundabout 12 000 ufo reports that mod received in the time of the ufo project only perhaps a few dozen involve the sighting of any entities okay mr cameron i have a personal bias that sightings are almost a total waste of time you can't tell anything from stuff flying around in the sky it's not until you interact with whoever is flying them or get inside the ship that you can learn anything you really can't very much from watching whether it's their stuff their stuff it's just stuff lying around in the sky it just shows you that something very mysterious is going on thank you mr shelly there is a higher level air force officials that he gave me a ufo report he reported that that he has seen that dozens of ufos that have all lined up and are flying in the same

1:25:59 direction and he he said that there must be a highly organism in there to find that so i think this is very valuable report because it's reported by the high-level military officials because ordinary people do not have like kind of about aerospace but this official then military officers that he he considered this must be the evidence of this high intelligence organisms flying the objects and so and this high-level military officers he often joined and participated in our seminar as well and he even gave me he even gave me a picture of the ufo this is something very special that was a picture that's taken from the satellite and that was very clear crisp clear picture of ufo thank you my personal opinion consider that there

1:27:00 is a big difference between the official cases and the civilian cases for instance in italy we have more than 12 000 cases taken from civilian sources and the eternal force only 400 so this is a big difference right but just to to make a possible uh my possible opinion i frankly think that we are facing uh some elongated and very big motherships which may contain piloted objects and these pilot subjects objects are not to too different from our fighters in other words and then probably there are also remotely piloted probes and they are probably objects and no more than half a meter in diameter of dimension disease but they are probably able to fly

1:28:01 and do to to give information to this strange phenomena all right thank you very much for your time and your testimony it was a terrific panel thank you and we are adjourned 3 30.