UFO Cover-Up Live with Larry King (CNN/TNT, 1994)

0:00 I'm so proud. Do you remember when we were in the middle of all that mess? We were fighting all the time about just everything. Well, I told you. No, well, first, you said that... Well, you know, you were talking about if you had a stroke and... And you asked me if I would be all right. I remember. And I told you I wouldn't be. Well, Bonnie, that's not true what I said. I would be all right. You know why? Because you've given me so much love, so much laughter, smashes of song. It lasts the rest of my life. So I could be alone if I had to.

1:05 And I would be all right. And you, you made up for every bit of unhappiness that I've experienced in my whole life. In 1963, under hypnotic suggestion, Betty Hill drew from memory the map shown to her aboard the spacecraft. Astronomers became fascinated for what if the map corresponded to a pattern of real stars from an alien viewpoint. Astronomers reasoned that the majority of star systems likely to have life-supporting planets were located in the obscure southern constellation of Reticulum. Yet three stars, yet three stars in the cluster were unknown until 1969. No astronomer on Earth knew their position in 1963. But that same year, Betty Hill drew a map which contained these undiscovered stars. Astronomers at Ohio State University requested a computer to put them in their correct position out beyond the incredible double star system of Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta

2:08 Reticuli 2. 220 trillion miles, 37 light-years away from Earth, looking toward our sun. And the computer duplicated with virtually no variation, the now famous map of Betty Hill. This is Larry King. Stay tuned for the UFO cover-up live from Area 51. A TNT Larry King special coming up next. Welcome, welcome to the loneliest place I

3:10 have ever seen. Somewhere in the heart of the American West, somewhere north of Las Vegas, Nevada. Some say there's more than sand and scrub out here. Some say there are secrets, maybe the biggest secret ever, right behind those hills. We'll present the case. You decide for yourself. Some believe. Others wonder. And there may be a few who don't want you to know. The UFO cover-up. Live from Area 51. A TNT Larry King special. Hi, the TNT crew and yours truly are here live in Rachel, Nevada. We're about 50 miles from Area 51, that

4:11 mysterious Air Force base that the Air Force denies exists. This is going to be an incredible two hours with great guests, interesting interviews, and of course, we'll include your phone calls. We'll be giving you an 800 number where you can participate. Flying saucers, UFOs, little green men. They are more than incredible tales and tantalizing rumors. They're part of our history and our culture, even if they're just figments of our imagination. All around us, they're part of us. Thanks in part to those wonderful folks in Hollywood. Watch. Your choice is simple. Join us and live in peace or pursue your present course and face obliteration. A classic threat from a Hollywood alien. Shape up or die. It was 1952. The Red Scare was on. It wouldn't be the last time script writers invented an emissary from space to show human dreams and fears. I think all movies have, from the beginning

5:12 of the medium, plugged into extremely basic human yearnings, fears, fantasies of every kind. Since 1947, when real-life pilot Kenneth Arnold saw silver discs over Mount Rainier and coined the term flying saucer, people have been straining to see spaceships. And if they came up empty, there was always the movies. Holy cats. We finally got one. We found a flying saucer. UFOs are a modern obsession, but the idea of strange visitors dispensing advice, discipline, or trouble is an old one. Try 6,000 years old. The Egyptians and the Mesopotamians considered their cities dominated by sacred ziggurats, the property of gods from the sky. Ancient cultures the world over wrote of regular celestial visitors who taught everything from irrigation to medicine.

6:14 Where did they all go? Where are the demons? Where are the Greek gods? They just disappear. They left the earth. These are things inside people's heads. But others say remnants of long-vanished cultures from Easter Island to Stonehenge show today's UFO believers have history on their side. Sacred circles still mark hallowed ground from Scotland to the American West. South America's ancient Nazca lines formed giant birds and monkeys best appreciated from the air. More recently, many believed in fairies, elves, trolls, or leprechauns, little people who sowed magic or havoc. Today, we puzzle over crop circles, flying saucers, and little gray men who abduct innocents. The data seems to indicate a form of non-human consciousness that is very close to the earth, has been present throughout history. Whether visitors from the unknown really did

7:15 and do show themselves, or whether they're a collective daydream as old as civilization itself, Hollywood has for decades played a game of what if. Imagine they came here, what would they be like? What would they do to us? What would they do for us? All of that stuff is really interesting to play with. You're wiser than anything on earth. Use that intelligence. Look at me and know what I'm trying to tell you. I'm not your enemy, I'm a scientist. I'm a scientist who's trying to... Some aliens you just can't talk to, but the thing was a product of the 50s. By the 60s, we seemed to want extraterrestrials to be teachers. 2001, a space odyssey showed a far superior intelligence, helping mankind evolve in a remote but caring way. And in more recent years, we fantasized about not only meeting aliens, but running away with them.

8:17 And when the mothership in Close Encounters finally showed itself at a secret government landing pad piloted by benign, mischievous aliens, it was ordinary Joe Richard Dreyfuss who was welcomed aboard. Interterrestrial contact has become our dominant fantasy. What about reality? Do the movies simply reflect age-old yearnings to explore, to grow, to make contact? Or are they an attempt to make sense of an inexplicable real-life mystery? I think that people want to believe so much that it flies in the face of any logic. As Captain Kirk, William Shatner, and the Star Trek crew encountered fictional aliens for 30 years. But that doesn't mean he believes in real ones. People interpret what they're seeing as science fiction because they want desperately to believe that they exist. And that there is another intelligence out

9:19 there that can, like Big Daddy, come and put their arms around us and gently say to the culture that has gone astray, Big Daddy's here, we'll set you on the path again, and everything will be fine. Almost at once there followed the discovery of Piper Drive. The spinning round spaceship has become a cultural icon, a symbol for mystery, excitement, hope, maybe even rescue. Some say it's so pervasive it explains a lot of real-life saucer sightings. When people have been exposed to these stories on television with dramatic reproductions or dramatic visual aids, naturally that influences the story they tell. The last night I saw a flying object that couldn't have possibly been from this planet. A laughable movie, but to a lot of real-life military men, that's not a laugh line.

10:20 Army and Air Force personnel do see strange things. They are ordered not to talk, as we'll see tonight. Some are talking anyway. We'll see that the U.S. government is holding back UFO files, contents unknown, while pretending not to be interested. We'll see how a U.S. congressman was stonewalled when he probed a legendary, unproven UFO story. The movies, the lunatic theories, and the desperate desire to believe all make it doubly difficult to investigate all this. But tonight, we'll try to play it right down the middle, as we ask whether UFOs are the story of the century, or just a case of wishful thinking by a troubled species hoping for company in a lonely universe. We are back in Rachel, Nevada, with our first two distinguished guests. Stephen Greer is a North Carolina doctor. He does a lot more than watch the skies. He fires off messages, and he says that someone or something is responding.

11:21 Dr. Greer is looking for close encounters of the fifth kind. Also here, the dean of UFO researchers, a man who says the world governments have engineered a kind of cosmic Watergate to hide the truth from the public, the esteemed nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman. What is key, Stephen, about this area, Area 51? Well, this area has been reported for a number of years to house black operations from the Air Force and other agencies that have allegedly been back-engineering alien spacecraft, as they're called, or extraterrestrial spacecraft. This is the place where the Air Force supposedly hides things from us. Yeah, I'm not saying that that's the case, but that's what is reported here. What do you think goes on here, Doctor? Mister, please, Larry, no free degrees. Okay, you're Doctor, you're Mister. Yes, there's no question that there's all kinds of secret government development projects going on over the hill. Whether any of them have anything to do with flying, so that's another question entirely.

12:21 Certainly, if you were going to try to test fly a new strange vehicle, this would be the place to do it. It's a huge area, access is prohibited, we're not on Area 51, we're nearby, because they wouldn't let us on Area 51. What would happen if we went there now? We'd be stopped at the gate, we would not, and we could be arrested, I know of people who've been arrested, for trying to look over the mountain to look down at the area. What does the sign at the gate say, Stephen? I haven't actually been over there. What's the name of this base? There are several names, Area 51 is the larger name, we're near Nellis Air Force Base, there's Groom Lake, there's Papoose Lake, there's a whole bunch of different facilities out here. And the Air Force tells us this is what? Until very recently, they were saying there's nothing out here. No, that thing out there is not there. Yeah, it's not there. You can't look at it, and the guards can't look at your videotape on your camera, because they're not cleared to see what isn't there. We'll get to that later. What, Dr. Greer, do you believe? By the way, your specialty is what? Emergency medicine, emergency and trauma medicine. So you're in an emergency room every day?

13:21 Yes, well, not every day, but enough. You treat trauma patients? Yes. How'd you get into this? Well, it's a long story. I had an interest. My uncle worked on a project working on the Apollo mission, and I had an interest in space. And many years ago, I had a sighting at fairly close range of an object that was clearly not an airplane. And from that, my interest grew, and I developed an interest to the point that I founded a research organization called C-SETI. Which stands for? Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence. What, at this minute, do you believe? Well, you know, I separate my belief from what I know. What do you know? Okay, our assessment at this point is that there is at least one extraterrestrial civilization which has managed to make its way to our corner of the universe. And number two, that there's no evidence at all that they have hostile intentions towards this planet. And number three, that the priority at this point must be trying to establish some sort of a liaison to them, some sort of a diplomatic liaison to them. And that's what we're working on. How do you know this?

14:23 Well, I personally have been within a few hundred feet of these craft as they have been maneuvering. You've seen them? We have seen them. I've been on research teams that we have put out in areas where these objects have been seen, and we have been able to signal to them. We have been able to vector them within a few hundred feet of our location, ten feet above the ground. There's no question in my mind that these are real and not a figment of anyone's imagination. Stanton, do you believe Dr. Greer? Yes, I believe Dr. Greer. My own beliefs are a little different in the sense that I agree with what he said, but I carry it a lot farther. I'm convinced after 36 years of studying investigation that the evidence is overwhelming that planet Earth is being visited by extraterrestrial spacecraft. That means some UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not. I don't care about those. Second, we're dealing with a kind of cosmic Watergate. That means some few people in the government know what's going on, not everybody. Third, none of the arguments made by the debunkers like Carl Sagan and Phil Klass who never refer to the relevant evidence stand up under careful scrutiny.

15:25 And fourth, we're dealing with the biggest story of the millennium. Visits to planet Earth, successful cover-up of the best data, the bodies in the wreckage from 1947 for 47 years. Why? I don't speak for the government, but I'll give you five reasons. Yeah. Go on. One, we want to figure out how they work to make wonderful weapons delivery and defense systems. They can fly circles around anything. We got flying. Rule number one for security if you set up a secret project is you can't tell your friends without telling your enemies. They watch like Larry King, too. Second problem, the other side of the coin, what if the other guy figures out how they work before you do? How do you defend against them? You don't want them to know you know. They know. Third, if there were to be an announcement made by highly trusted individuals that indeed some UFOs are alien spacecraft, what would happen? We can imagine church attendance would go up, mental hospital admissions would go up, stock market would go down. But I think the biggest thing that would happen, based on 600 college lectures, is that the younger generation, which was never alive when there wasn't a space program, would immediately push for a new view of ourselves instead of as Americans, Chinese, Canadians, as earthlings. And this plot is conceived

16:27 to be hidden for these five reasons. By whom? I didn't give you two of them. Apparently, the intelligence agencies have been running this show for a long time. I mean, the National Security Agency admits it's withholding 156 UFO documents. You're saying, Stanton, that the President Reagan knew about this and kept it hidden, or he didn't know? I think he probably did know and kept it hidden. President Bush knows. Certainly, Bush knows. He's head of the CIA beforehand. President Clinton knows. I have no idea how much he's been briefed. He's got a lot on his plate right now. He might have been told very little of the whole story. My view on this is a little different, and that is that I don't believe that when most people in government say they don't know anything about this, they are really telling the truth. And I question whether the current president and some of his cabinet have been adequately briefed. This isn't to say that there aren't people in some of the agencies who know. I'm sure there are. But I think the control point on this is not where most people would think it would be. You've contacted them or you believe you've contacted them? We have had limited exchange. By what means?

17:27 By light signaling and by graphic signaling. What do you mean light signaling? Well, basically, for example, if an object is arriving out in the field, we will try to engage it. But I hope it happens now. Well, who knows? But we will signal to it and it will signal back congruently. Saying what? You'll beep what? It's not to say anything. It is simply to establish that they see us and we see them. Three flashes, three flashes back. That idea there. I see. No, it's four flashes. We're here, you're here, we're there, you're there. Now, there have been reports of more advanced communication. But I think one thing we have to back up and say is that any craft capable of getting here from another star system is not going to have technology that would be used by AT&T and what have you. So we have to keep a very open mind about what modalities of communication might be out there. Any of those government reasons logical to you, Stanton? Well, I worked on classified programs for 14 years. I've been to 15 archives. I know how easy it is to cover things up and I know that the major concerns often are technological

18:28 and power oriented. So the fifth reason is economic discombobulation, Larry. You make an announcement, people think that soon there's going to be new methods of ground transport, air transport, energy production. That causes chaos on the stock market. We're going to take a break and come back. There'll be more guests and we'll be including your phone calls. Our numbers are 1-800-348-3900. This is our TNT UFO special, Larry King in the Desert. We'll be right back. My mind is open. There's good evidence tomorrow. I'd love to hear it. I'd love to believe that we're being visited. Coming up, the secrets of Area 51. This presentation of Larry King, the UFO cover-up is brought to you by Advil. Nothing is proven to last longer than Advil.

19:28 Advanced medicine for pain. Some days, I get these really pounding headaches. I used to take Tylenol, but it didn't always get rid of all the pain. So I've been using Advil for a while now. I found that on my tough headaches, two Advil work better than two extra-strength Tylenol tablets. Better than extra-strength Tylenol caplets. Tylenol gel caps. And you know, nothing's been proven to last longer than Advil. For my tough headaches, Advil just works better. Advil. Advanced medicine for pain. Imagine a couple of Swedish engineers have dinner with a couple of German engineers. The Swedish engineers overhearing talk about safety, while the German engineers over Bratforst talk about the joy of driving. And what do you think they'd end up with? Probably the new Volvo 960. Now the only question is who's going to pick up the tab? The new 960 from Volvo.

20:33 You're looking really fresh, but let's dress you up a little. Maybe add a few bows. Birdseye. The fresh look for vegetables. Masterful. Absorbing. 75-season scores spectacularly. Consistently outstanding from start to finish. Can't miss TV. This film epic is icing on NFL's birthday cake. Join TNT for a special encore presentation of one of the best historical sports films ever made. 75-seasons. The story of the National Football League. Monday, 7 Eastern on TNT. Tommy Lee Jones. Coming soon in a new motion picture on TNT. The good old boys. TNN Motorsports. The real deal.

21:34 More motorsports than all other networks combined. The only one with live racing 12 months a year. Over 50 live races more than ever before. So for more drive time this year get into TNN Motorsports. wouldn't it be nice if all the things you bought for your family suddenly became more affordable? Well, it's a start. by way of correction

22:38 we gave you the wrong 800 number. It's 800-448-3900. 800-448-3900 not 348 and if someone is at 348 and if someone is at 348 we apologize. It's 448-3900. Welcome back. We're in Rachel, Nevada in the shadows of the mysterious Area 51. Just behind us in the foreboding desert scrub amazing things are going on. That much is certain. But a growing list of witnesses say that they're hiding more than just secret planes back there. how much more our crews went in for a look. You referred to Groom Lake Area 51 the military will not acknowledge that those terms exist. When you don't exist you can do anything you damn well please. This is the most

23:39 secret place in America. It was home to the stealth planes back when they were only rumors. Now the rumors are of exotic officially non-existent projects like the Aurora. Nobody in government ever talks on the record. I can't tell you what anything they're doing out there. It's under the Secrecy Act. If the government really is hiding hard evidence of UFOs all the rumors point to Area 51. This country's less lonely than it looks. Head down the unmarked access road and they know you're coming. The desert's alive with electronic sensors. If you drive past signs warning you not to take pictures unmarked white Jeep Cherokees appear with men in camouflage wielding binoculars and rifles. The next sign near the robot camera says use of deadly force authorized. That's far enough. So what's going on around this bend? This object rose from the area of Papus Lake and it would exhibit totally unconventional flight characteristics.

24:40 This man who goes by the name Agent X finds and photographs secret aircraft. He's defied federal law to shoot these pictures of Area 51. He can identify virtually every plane in the sky. but what he saw here one night terrified him. As it would travel in one direction it would slightly deform to the trailing edge and as the object would stop it would kind of have a little lag and a little shift beyond it and it would drop down and it literally seemed like it was alive. Did Agent X see something genuinely unearthly? to see this thing has made me critically examine the way that I view the world and what I think and it lends a lot more credibility to several of the stories that are floating around this area dealing with Papus Lake. For example a reclusive physicist named Bob Lazar has long claimed that he worked on an extraterrestrial craft at an installation near Area 51.

25:40 other sources talk of Project Red Light an effort to test fly otherworldly craft whose force fields might make them look distorted or alive. I mean if you're going to see anything this is where you're going to see it. So believers are lured to Tiny Rachel in the shadow of Area 51 where the first thing you see is a government radiation meter. Rachel is a hundred people in one bar the Little Ailey Inn where saucer hunters trade tips and alien heads stands guard and all kinds of folks stop by. I am an alien visitor but I don't look like one I'm in disguise. Glenn Campbell has seen all kinds a computer programmer turned desert activist he's running a one man campaign to open up the secret base. My angle is let's look at the government secrecy see if this is excessive and if it is and we can hack away at it a little bit then eventually all these mysteries will be solved. Campbell still undecided about UFOs

26:40 but he doesn't like Area 51 security patrols making arrests on public land or wiring it up with motion sensors and he doesn't like the air force trying to seize even more land around Area 51. Between the security the threats the radiation meter and the UFO talk he says this is a scary place. People really are afraid of leaking things out. I see that I used to believe that the government couldn't possibly keep a secret this big but now I see that in this particular place it could. Nevada Congressman James Bilbray says yes Area 51 has secrets to keep and yes the secrecy is justified. It didn't become a serious problem just until a few years ago when all of a sudden this rumor started that there were spacemen out there and they had a captured spaceship and they had bodies of aliens. Bilbray says he's been over a lot of the base that doesn't exist and saw nothing you might call out of this world but he wants the UFO buffs banned from

27:41 eyeballing Area 51. I read science fiction all the time. It's been something I've done since I was a teenager but the fact is that they've got to understand you've got to balance that with national security needs. They cannot have access to a lot of facilities. Back at the Little Ailey Inn the believers are anything but discouraged. Even though you may be totally skeptic about it you've got this this thing pulling you saying just in case you sure would like to be there at the time. There are two tourist destinations here in Rachel, Nevada. One is the Little Ailey Inn right across the road. The other is the Area 51 Research Center. It's operator Glenn Campbell who's presided over a kind of media frenzy over the past recent months joins us and our panel now joining Stanton Friedman and Dr. Stephen Greer. What do you believe?

28:41 You moved from Boston out here, right? That's right. Just for this? Just for this and I don't believe anything. I just like to let the evidence speak for itself. What are you doing? What did you do in Boston? I was a computer programmer and essentially I do a lot of the same stuff here. I organize data. You don't believe? What fascinated you to come live out here? Well, I came because of the UFO stories and they still fascinate me but what really keeps me here is the human stories. This is really cutting edge humanity. This is an example of how humans deal with the unknown and I think regardless of what the truth is it's interesting to see this process work. What do you know about Area 51? Well, certainly the vast majority of it is routine military testing of secret weapons things that wouldn't be too interesting to most civilians but I do not discount the possibility that there is alien hardware being kept out there or have been kept at some point. You're open to that possibility? I'm open to it. Why? I continue to hear second-hand stories from workers

29:42 who have been in there that suggest this. Certainly workers in there do not discount this possibility themselves. The workers in there where do they live? They live on the base? Largely they live in Las Vegas and they're shuttled up in jets. In jets? That's right. We can't land there. We can't even go over there, right? We can't do it comfortably, no. What does the Air Force say if we call them in Washington about that base? They'll say the area is used for training. How many people are there? Perhaps 1,500. That's a guess. Okay. What are they... Why is this a secret in your opinion? And we can all chime in on this. It's a secret because it's always been a secret. Let's say they've got a plane there that can go vertically take off and go 8,000 miles a second and traverse the Earth in two minutes. Right. Tell us. Wow, wow. Why can't they tell us? They should be able to tell us. The secrecy has always been the modus operandi. Are they worried about Saddam Hussein and what? Who's the enemy? Good point. What do you think, Stephen? Why don't they just tell us?

30:42 Tell us what the plane is. Well, I think there's a lot of residual secrecy left over from the Cold War and big institutions turn around about as easily as a supertanker and I think a lot of the policies that are currently in place are holdovers from the Cold War era and I think... In other words, Stanton, do you think we're holding things secret that anybody in the public could know about? I think there are a lot of those things, Larry. But you have to understand we're dealing with an annual $34 billion black budget in the United States. About half on technology, that's a lot of bucks, and half on spying. National Security Agency, CIA, DIA, NRO, all these things. That's power. When you've got knowledge that nobody else has, that's power and these guys want to stay in power. The fact that Cold War has gone down doesn't matter to them. They want their jobs. We have in front of us a UFO model, if we can show that on. It's from the Tester Corporation. We discussed Bob Lazar in that earlier package. This is based on... Bob Lazar's... was built based on

31:42 Bob Lazar's description of the craft that he says he saw at Area 51. Glenn, do you believe him? I don't know what to believe. That's a great story. It's a well-constructed story. It's a beautiful model. It's a beautiful model and there's a rich technical story behind it. You can believe it or not believe it. Could it be experimental American aircraft? I seriously doubt it. Why? If it does anything that it's... Well, where are the wings? Where are the air... Where are the engines? It's something... Maybe it's a roll along the ground thing. It could be. Larry, it's important to recognize here that there are two separate questions with regard to the model. A, whether there are vehicles of that sort out at Area 51. B, whether Bob Lazar is telling the truth. I've done an enormous amount of research and I find that nothing checks out. He isn't a scientist. He didn't go to MIT. He didn't go to Caltech. He didn't work for Los Alamos. Worked there for a while as a technician apparently. He's a liar? Yes. So you don't believe

32:43 this is there? That's a separate question. He may have heard stories about something just like that. I certainly don't believe his reconstruction of the means of propulsion. He's got a nice story. It's good science fiction, but as a nuclear physicist, and I've worked on nuclear rockets and fusion rockets and such, the story doesn't hold together when you look at it critically. Now, there's a separate... There's a separate issue here, not whether that is at this area, but does such a thing exist and has it been documented? The answer to that is absolutely yes. There are daylight photographs of objects quite close to what that looks like, which are very good. I acquired one through a person working with us at NASA, and I'll tell you another thing, and that is in England, in 1992, we had a research team that was successful in vectoring into the field that we were operating in within about 10 feet above the ground an object that looked almost identical to that. So I would be inclined to believe that there are such craft. Whether there's one at Area 51 is another question. Maybe the model's based on what he saw,

33:43 not the other way around. How long have you been here, Glenn? Two years. In that time, are you more inclined to believe or less inclined? The most obvious stories are that you can come here to this remote desert highway and see flying saucers on demand, and I think that's ridiculous. However, the longer I'm here, the more ex-workers I talk to, the more I'm not so sure about this craft. There's a lot of interesting stories, and they all seem to hold together that the Air Force has somehow obtained craft like this. What do you do with them? How do you make a living doing what you do? Who uses your service? Oh, visitors come and buy my book, and I have a little mail-order business where I sell documents relating to this. Largely, I live off my savings, though, from my previous life. A little boring out here? Oh, no, not at all. Not boring? It's a rich pageant of humanity. You blink and miss the city. A rich pageant of humanity comes here. Oh, aliens of all sorts. You might have seen Ambassador Merlin on the cliff. I've met a number of aliens,

34:44 and that's what fascinates me, how people respond to this sort of thing. We will include your phone calls throughout this program. Other guests are coming, too, by the way, but let's take our first one. With us are Glenn Campbell, Dr. Stephen Greer, and Stanton Friedman. I'm Larry King, and this is our UFO special on TNT, and we go to Petoskey, Michigan. Hello. Hi, Larry. I have been interested in this for a long time. I have two questions. The first one is, is there any proof that people are actually abducted and then returned, like with these horror stories such as abuse and probing, to where they're really scared to death? And the second question? This is from a Christian point of view. A lot of it has come up that we feel that angels have been looking after us for quite some time because of the end being near and so forth. Has that ever been... A religious aspect in a minute. Thank you for calling. First aspect.

35:44 You got a point? Well, that's highly controversial, and my own fix on that... Do you think? I think it is extremely rare that anyone has taken on board one of these. I think probably between 90 and 99% of those sort of reports are not what they appear to be. Even with the book by the Harvard Psychiatrist. Yes. And so I would say that there have been a few accounts where people have been taken on board. I think it is much rarer than UFO followers would have you think. I was technical advisor on the UFO incident that's playing today on Turner, and I'm convinced that some people have indeed been abducted. Remember, the question is, are all the stories true? The question is, are any? The question isn't, are all UFOs alien spacecraft? The question is, are any? Any conflict with religion, as any of you see it? I've seen people who feel conflicted by it. Yes, certain fundamentalist groups say, we're the only intelligent life in the universe, and this is the work of the devil, and I don't buy that either. I mean, for them it's a problem. For me, if you're impressed with the god of our local planet,

36:45 how much more impressive to think of the god of the local neighborhood? Let's get another call, Virginia Beach, Virginia, with Messrs Friedman, Greer, and Campbell on our UFO special. Hello. Yes, I'd like to know if there's any truth to the alien ship that crashed and there were seven bodies and they were taken around to different cities in the United States and one of them is supposedly still in Langley, Virginia. Could you address that? Thank you, Stanton. I'm the original researcher on the so-called Roswell incident. 16 years I've been plugging away at that. Yes, I'm convinced that a saucer crashed, that bodies were picked up and recovered. Where they are now, I don't know. Nobody is telling me. I'm not on the distribution list for the classified documents. Where the wreckage is now, I don't know either. But there is overwhelming evidence that at least one, more likely two, saucers crashed in New Mexico in 1947. We'll be getting into lots of this and some of the things discussed we'll be covering as well and we have another guest joining us. You're watching our TNT special

37:46 on UFOs. We're in the deserts of Nevada about two and a half hours out of Las Vegas and nothing like Las Vegas. I guess I believe that there were at least three alien bodies on board this vehicle. Where it ended up, your guess is as good as mine. Is there real evidence of UFOs? Stay tuned. He has no clients. No conferences. No appointments. No schedules. For contemporary man, that kind of freedom is found in a different form. El Dorado. With the North Star System by Cadillac. Don't let a new car payment

38:56 be a financial burden. Get Smart Lease by GMAC. It's an affordable way to drive off with a new GM vehicle. And it might even give you something you wouldn't mind carrying around. You are a master of mirth. Just the sound of your voice invites laughter. You have a positive genius for not taking anything too seriously. Including yourself. Introducing Time Bank. Only Time Bank awards you one free minute for every five you spend on the phone. Getting paid for making people laugh. What a concept. Maybe you will take to the sea. have Australian lobster for dinner. Maybe you are the most important person in the world.

39:56 Maybe you will eat ice cream at midnight. Maybe life is more fair than you thought. Maybe this is not impossible. Maybe you could be there right now. Holland America Line. Week two of the O.J. Simpson trial. Join us for a look at the victim in the case. One of Nicole Brown Simpson's closest friends shares his feelings on Larry King Live Monday night at midnight Eastern on CNN. Sunday night. The Shulahs go at it. Dolphins, Bengals. Tomorrow night at 7 p.m. Eastern on TNT. I'm Chris Berman

41:13 from ESPN. Whenever I come back, back, back, back, back, back to New Orleans, I always watch Metro Sports. Carmine's chef Joseph Pocasio's had enough. For the last time. Now, chef. What? You can open now. Carmine's is now open in Bucktown. We're back, slightly bigger and better than ever. We still have all of your favorites like seafood, stuffed artichoke, soft shell crab, and more. And chef Joseph Pocasio's team of experts have been taste testing all the new dishes. I don't know. Carmine's is back in Bucktown. Join us for lunch and dinner. And remember, there's a little Italian in the pot at Carmine's. I'm looking, I'm looking. We're back in Rachel, Nevada. UFO folklore is full of great stories about the evidence that got away, the pieces of a crash saucer,

42:14 the incredible photos, the little bodies. So there are so many possibilities, but basically two, really. Either it is all just folklore or a very efficient cover-up that has snatched away at all of our conclusive proof. What are we left with? It's what a courtroom lawyer would call the best evidence. You decide how good it is. So have you all had any reports of unknown flying objects over there? No, we haven't. Okay, I was wondering. We supposedly are having quite an invasion over here. Edwards Air Force Base, 1965. What were these military men seeing and chasing? July 1959, Corpus Christi, Texas. What's that bright light in the sky? January 1967, Camarillo, California on the set of a TV western. What's that passing behind actor Tony Franziosa?

43:16 Most UFO evidence in the public domain is fascinating but inconclusive. Unidentified does not equate to alien spaceship although many people throughout the world today make that connection. This is amateur tape of an Atlas rocket launch at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California taped in November 1991 but never shown publicly until now. Shortly after liftoff, a mysterious light seems to approach the rocket and change course at high speed. Now we are not aware either here at this magazine or any of the other researchers that I'm acquainted with in any technology that the United States government at this time has that could duplicate what this object appears to have completed with this missile test. Still photos are also tantalizing. Some definitely stump the experts especially this one where the UFO seems to be

44:16 kicking up dust but the photographic evidence doesn't settle debate. It stirs more up. It would be so much more interesting if we were being visited than if we're not. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. We had a flying saucer in our possession. Roswell. Is it just a dusty legend embellished over half a century or could it be extraordinary evidence? On July 4, 1947 something did crash on this lonely New Mexico ranch not far from the Roswell Army Airfield where A-bombs were stored. The rancher took some of the wreckage to the military. Lieutenant Robert Shirky saw it and says it was covered with strange symbols. Nothing I'd ever seen and I would just have to say like hieroglyphics I've seen in the notebooks or textbooks you know of Egypt but that still wouldn't be the right answer.

45:18 The military seized the crash site but forgot about its own PR man. Without orders to the contrary he called the local papers. The public affairs officer was Walter Hout. I think KGFL at that time put it on the wire and they were cut off about halfway through. The next day's paper said that was no saucer that was a weather balloon and the manager at KGFL radio Judd Roberts got a warning from a friend in Washington. Just to say look if you publish anything anything that you have information for anything which would indicate that this was something far exceeding the importance of a weather balloon why you're in big trouble. Where was the evidence? Reporters were shown wreckage but maybe not the real McCoy. That was actually part of a Rawlins weather balloon.

46:19 We had a quick switch in there or so I'm told. In September 1994 the Air Force acknowledged there was a cover up at Roswell but denied the secret at stake was a UFO. And it was part of what was then a top secret project known as Project Mogul designed to use very high altitude balloons equipped with in effect microphones or acoustic sensors to try to detect when the Soviets launched I'm sorry when the Soviets exploded their first nuclear weapon. The Air Force offered the Project Mogul story after years of prodding by New Mexico Congressman Stephen Schiff who was stonewalled when he first filed a routine query with the Pentagon. Well the response was not routine. The response was a letter from the Air Force that simply said rather curtly we've sent your letter over to the National Archives. So for them to refer me to an agency

47:19 that they knew couldn't provide any information I think was nothing short of a runaround. Many in Roswell today believe the new Air Force explanation is just another facet of a long-running deception. The town now boasts two UFO museums which tell the story a lot of people want to believe. I guess I believe that there were at least three alien bodies on board this vehicle that did crash. The Air Force says an internal search uncovered nothing even hinting at a recovered UFO but a July 1947 FBI memo says an object purporting to be a flying disc was transported by special plane to Wright Field for examination. Wright-Pattison Air Base in Ohio long the focus of rumors about crash discs and recovered bodies. I believe that this is an issue of government accountability that people have a right to know unless there's an immediate security reason why they can't.

48:20 Schiff is having the General Accounting Office probe further but few think if the Air Force is still hiding anything the GAO could really expose it so hard evidence of UFOs remains elusive the stories are awesome the proof is always just out of reach. There's not one case of convincing physical evidence and scientists would give their eye teeth to get their you know fingers on extraterrestrial technological alloy or something like that there's never been a case like that. At least not one we know about. We're back with Dr. Stephen Greer Stanton Friedman and Glenn Campbell and we're joined now by a man who's written extensively on the Roswell incident and who believes the evidence is better than we have been allowed to see. He is Air Force Captain Kevin Randall. He's with us here in Rachel. You're in the Air Force Reserves. What got you onto this to begin with Captain?

49:20 It was actually my partner Don Schmidt's fault. He thought there was other things that needed to be done in the Roswell case. We thought we would go to Roswell we'd spend three or four days down there. We'd solve the case we'd go home. Six years later we still don't know what happened other than it was a crash of an alien spacecraft. Of that you're convinced? Absolutely convinced. Now you're an Air Force officer? In the Inactive Reserves yes. But you were in the active Air Force? Yes. And in the United States Army as a helicopter pilot. What are they hiding? Alien spacecraft. Why? The bodies. I think in 1947 as they said it was something that needed to be hidden. They wanted an opportunity to exploit it without having to worry about espionage. In 1962 the Brookings Institution did a study of what would happen if people of Earth were contacted by an alien civilization. Of the 15 disciplines economists, anthropologists, theologians, 14 of them said it would be disastrous for our civilization. We know that the army participated in civil rights violations in 1947 that they don't want to admit today. And we

50:20 believe as other people said knowledge is power. As long as you know something I don't you're more powerful. But Captain and you co-wrote with Donald Schmidt the truth about the crash at Roswell right? And you feel and you you've advised networks and the like and you've been prominent in this field for a long time. Why would this great story as Carl Millenium? The politician's story of the Millenium. Wouldn't a president love to go on television tonight and say yes they're out there? No I don't think he would. You don't think so? I a lot of the problem we have is the news media scientific community are afraid of losing their credibility. If you suddenly come out and say yes I believe in flying saucers and the United States government has one Sagan to see physical evidence and Carl Sagan is not looking at physical evidence he says where's the physical evidence we have 4500

51:20 landing trace cases where the UFOs have interacted with the environment there is pieces of metal held in private hands but we cannot get the scientific community to look at this stuff they all say it doesn't exist no one likes security unless a case of national interest impact on society Larry we can't neglect that based on what impact would we do if knew there was life in another universe how would this change my tomorrow what would I do not go to Los Angeles out there no way if they're coming here and if they are abducting people and if government officials would have to admit they've been lying for 47 years there goes the next election for all the people who have been lying so you believe this they both noticed no I didn't say that I don't know what they but I think they've certainly had advice over the years not to break this

52:20 story that it would impact on religion economics all aspects of our life the biggest puzzle of all Dr. Greer and all of you can jump in on this it's been asked I'm interested in your response why do they land here and not in Boston well first why the fact of the matter this is commonly said and what I point out to people is that in 1952 in July shortly after we detonated the first hydrogen bomb around that time there were two weekends in a row where they flew in formation over the White House and the Pentagon there were air force people who saw it airline pilots a very well they don't land there but Larry they do land all over the country as Kevin said there are 4500 physical trace cases these are 65 countries where they're seen on or near the ground and when they land and charge admission to come on board why don't they land and talk to land here now you're presuming that they're here to get on your show or to talk to the president or whatever I presume anything they're presuming obviously

53:20 why do they land in deserted areas when there's populated areas but maybe they don't want to talk to earthlings maybe we're not worth talking to but why speculate you're forcing us to speculate about what's in the alien mind we don't know if we were talking about other races on earth at least we have the commonality of all being human but now we're talking about an alien race and the question that's also raised when they crashed one in New Mexico why didn't they come back and pick it up let's say there are no ufos has the government made a mistake in keeping this secret yeah this is generated let's say there were no ufos they've perpetuated if there is a myth they've perpetuated they have this is a symptom of the black budget of excessive government secrecy where there is no knowledge and folklore will fill the void i'm not saying that this is all folklore here but it would be and that's probably what's confusing but let me say something here i think that the really horse is being the cart is being before the horse here and that is that in no other area of scientific endeavor do you have to have proof

54:21 before you begin investigating it openly and this is a hypocritical standard which i think some people like carl sagan have held up if there's only a one in ten chance that all the evidence that we know of to date indicates that we are being visited by an intelligent life form from another solar system this is one of the most significant things in human history and we do not have to trot out a dead alien body in order to begin to seriously in the scientific community begin to research extraordinary investigation that's what we need why do you think so much is going on now captain randall why this sudden upsurge in interest here well i think one of the problems we have is the air force is now on the spot a lot of people are beginning to listen to our comments about what happened at roswell there was a movie that was on showtime about roswell books are coming out about it they're suddenly under pressure and the congressmen are asking what's going on so they've launched a preemptive strike if you will by publishing their reports saying that what happened at roswell was nothing more than a project mogul balloon implying that

55:22 the balloons of project mogul were something special let's include more phone calls on our tnt special with greer friedman campbell and captain randall we go to manassas virginia hello hi yes good good evening my question to the panel is the following i understand the u.s. government cover up when it comes to the u.s.os but what i don't understand is why the u.s.os having all the technology they have why don't they just land in front of your show or in front or in new york where everybody has to ask that sir so we'll repeat it again because it does confound people in our wildest dreams we don't know we can't think for the alien mind as you said but still what is it you want larry in my lecture i don't deal with any of the stuff you've seen our listeners have seen i deal with facts and data five large scale scientific studies the biggest one isn't mentioned which is the eleven anti-ufo books project blue book

56:22 special report fourteen data on thirty two hundred sightings all of the debunkers are aware of it none of them even talk about it we don't talk about mysticism about you know strange behavior out in the wild would you guys stand that this is an advanced culture that can do things we can't do well certainly one of the laws you learn when you study technology is that progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way the future isn't an extrapolation of the past the nuclear rockets i worked on aren't just better chemical rockets entirely new physics isn't it logical to say when you say what do you want isn't it logical to say they're studying our culture by only visiting remote areas but they don't only visit remote they're seen over big cities by multiple witnesses there's sightings right over new york if you look at the congressional testimony of 1968 twelve scientists there's loads of reports multiple witness sightings over big cities radar sightings sightings by astronomers by pilots by meteorologists whatever you want it's there if you look spring valley new york

57:23 for our panel hello yes hi larry i have a question for your general panel i understand there's an area not far from where you are in groom lake called area s4 and this area s4 supposedly has even more high tech covert black projects in operation right now i was wondering if any of the panel knows about this thank you sir glenn that story comes from the story of bob lazar that he claims that this these crafty worked on were at area s4 i have had not have not heard that from other sources however pupoose lake is a very good place to have a secret saucer base it's many miles behind even groom lake all these people these 1500 who work at this air force base here keep this secret they fly back and forth to las vegas they have the fear of god they were coming out here this morning not this morning it's a weekend but on weekdays yes well let's take it a step further what happens if they're working on a secret airplane nothing to have to do with flying saucers but they're working on a secret airplane aren't they keeping that a secret and they kept

58:23 the a-bomb a great secret one of the great lots of secrets well let me point out you don't have to to look into a secret area there in the last three years there have been hundreds of videotapes of these objects maneuvering over 22 million people in mexico city and you know so it's not a question of being remote if I flew a small plane over there now what would they do to me you'd lose your license probably like flying over the white house we'll be right back with more and more of your calls we've got a full hour to go this is our special live in rachel nevada we'll be right back there are what seems to be irrefutable evidence of mysteries that strong men with insane minds have said they saw sensational stories and chilling allegations after this Sunday night coach Don Shula

59:24 meets coach David Shula it's father versus son in the Shula Bowl the Dolphins the Bengals tomorrow night kick it off with the stadium show at 7.30 on TNT Wednesday night through the years the mothers of America have had a kind of medical training next they've learned from countless doctors and pharmacists that the way to take care of a cough is with Robitussin and now at home the mothers of America are putting this advice to work next Robitussin recommended by Dr. Mom which Robitussin is right for you ask your doctor or pharmacist and for your little patient try Robitussin pediatric cough and cold formulas you're bright you're beautiful you just need to accessorize now say good in town to the new you bird's eye the fresh look for vegetables if you're tired

1:00:30 of those automobiles that isolate insulate and virtually remove you from the outside world may we recommend the 1994 four-wheeler of the year Land Rover's Defender it can make life a bit more exciting with so many people still enjoying the service and convenience of their local true value another use may have to be found for those humongous hardware warehouses this month the true value get Rubbermaid's 30-gallon trash can for just $7.77 and a Kitta home fire extinguisher for only $8.99 tower I think I want to spot a lawnmower here true value help is just around the corner imagine video like you see in the movies graphics you want to reach

1:01:30 out and touch numbers that fall into place instantly if that's what you want from your PC then there's one thing you'll want to have inside it because there's one thing that runs all your PC software best the Intel Pentium processor Monday on the TNT Classic Ewell Brenner Tony Curtis and Joan Collins the TNT Classic moves to Monday with Taurus Bulba followed by the Land of the Pharaohs Monday beginning at 9 on TNT Lakota Woman Siege at Wounded Knee premieres Sunday October 16th at 8 p.m. The bounty of the deep is yours whenever you're seated at Neptune's table whether it's his fried or grilled seafood Neptune brings you the best of the deep each entree is carefully prepared to lock in the seafood's natural flavor with Neptune's herbs and spices

1:02:31 there's a variety of soups salads and sandwiches including Neptune's own croissant sandwich come enjoy the relaxed friendly family atmosphere for lunch or dinner or just a break from shopping Neptune's table it's worth a trip from anywhere what is the Elmwood Fitness Center challenge well as New Orleans largest and most complete fitness center with two great locations and Ochsner certified fitness consultants the Elmwood Fitness Center is so sure you'll look better and feel better in just 30 days if you don't we'll give you your money back that's the Elmwood Fitness Center challenge so no matter your age or your shape what have you got to lose stop by your nearest Elmwood Fitness Center and take the Elmwood Fitness Center challenge today before it's too late we're back in Rachel Nevada our phone numbers are

1:03:31 800-448-3900 how much stock do you put in the word of your fellow man that's really the central question in the UFO debate whether to believe the witnesses who step forward and say they saw some hair raising thing to tell how good are they you decide but first listen to one of our most distinguished national leaders he's talked to plenty of witnesses and he's made his decision I think the government does know Barry Goldwater senator presidential candidate and believer I can't back that up but I think that at Wright-Patterson Field if you could get into certain places you'd find out what the Air Force and the government knows about UFOs from his ham radio shack outside Phoenix the senator disclaims

1:04:31 direct knowledge of UFOs but he does confirm a disturbing story about an exchange with General Curtis LeMay reportedly a spaceship landed and was all hushed up quieted and nobody ever have never heard about much of it I called Curtis LeMay and I said General I know we have a room at Wright-Patterson where you put all this secret stuff could I go in there I've never heard him get mad but he got madder in hell at me cussed me out said don't ever ask me that question again the most arresting arguments for the reality of UFOs come not from photos or documents but witnesses like Robert Dean retired Sergeant Major US Army dig into this thing and tell the American people the truth Dean was attached to NATO in Paris in the 1960s

1:05:32 he says a series of UFO incidents over Eastern Europe almost touched off World War 3 because each side thought they were seeing a secret weapon from the other side NATO finally launched a secret UFO study says Dean and in 1964 he saw the astounding result I couldn't believe my eyes because it confirmed everything I had ever suspected that we were really not alone and apparently the human race had never been alone and the reality of this thing the fact that we were dealing with several high technology extraterrestrial civilizations and the technology that they had demonstrated repeatedly to the Soviets and to the NATO forces was literally beyond belief by appearing here Dean who now lives in Tucson is violating his national security oath NATO has denied the report he saw ever existed but Dean even claims it contained autopsy reports

1:06:33 the 12 small bodies on this big disk that crashed near the Baltic in 63 were almost absolutely identical stories like Dean's can't be verified but if any of this is true why aren't the witnesses Dean believes at least some powerful people in government people with some of the answers don't mind him speaking out he believes if congress held open hearings dozens more would step forward they're asking for congressional immunity for violating their national security oath and that is not asking a hell of a lot the most controversial witnesses of all are the alleged abductees if this is true it's the biggest event in all human history Bud Hopkins has hypnotized hundreds of subjects and many alleged kidnap victims men, women and children draw pictures of the aliens with disturbing similarities time after time there's anger how can they do this to me there's perplexity and confusion what is this all about no one explains

1:07:33 anything to me and of course there's an enormous amount of fear some of the abduction stories are so strange they're hard to discuss but many witnesses seem to genuinely believe UFO occupants have stolen their eggs and sperm to manufacture a hybrid race such talk does plenty to discourage respectable scientists from tackling UFOs then again a long parade of witnesses do report similar humiliating encounters the reason for this seems to be that the aliens are experimenting with a genetic mix between their genetic makeup apparently and ours for their own reasons that we have no idea what that's for the alleged weird hybrids between alien babies and human babies which some women say they've been carrying fine let's see the sonograms let's see the amniocentesis what is the evidence I always felt it would be a very embarrassing position to be a difficult position to be a prosecutor in a murder case

1:08:34 with two eyewitnesses and have Dr. Sagan on the jury because he has to say I don't care what they saw we don't listen to what people see which is an absurd position in my opinion those few psychotherapists who have picked up and embraced this idea of alien abductions will in time be sued for practicing witchcraft without a license you might think people subconsciously pining for a close encounter would at least make up a happy story but many ufo witnesses are far from happy some even get injured like betty cash her friend and grandson they were driving near euston one night in 1980 when they saw a glowing beeping object in the sky surrounded by military choppers soon after all three suffered symptoms of radiation sickness nausea burns headaches and hair loss the witnesses sued the government but their case was dismissed despite the misery and risk of ridicule however cash and a lot

1:09:35 of ufo witnesses ans stick to their stories and not everybody dismisses those stories i'd like someday to be alive when they divulge all this stuff he doesn't hold back does he let's reintroduce our panel captain kevin randall united states air force reserves ufo researcher dr stephen greer founder and international director of cseti stanton friedman nuclear physicist ufo researcher and lecturer and glenn campbell area 51 activist okay what about let's start with you captain the air force story of september 8th that it was this project mogul balloon what's interesting is the air force announced in 1947 they had a flying saucer three hours later said no no it's a weather balloon now they've gone back and looked at their files they said we lied in 1947 we looked at our files again and it's a weather balloon no they said they told the truth three days later in 1947 no they said they lied in 1947 it wasn't a weather

1:10:35 balloon it was a balloon but they're implying in their report that project mogul had some special balloons they had polyethylene but according to the air force report the launch they're talking about on june 4th 1947 flight number four was meteorological balloons standard weather balloons mac brazel the man who found the debris said in the report which the air force cleverly leaves out that he'd found similar devices on other occasions and he says this is nothing like those he would have recognized them why didn't sheridan cavett who now says he was with marcel on the field he said he recognized it immediately as a balloon why didn't he bother to communicate this little bit of intelligence to jesse marcel why did the air force do you think stanton released this on september i think i agree with the notion that it was a preemptive strike i think it's a terrible piece of work i've gone through it and the 200 and some pages of attachments the non-mogul stuff because i was aware of mogul and they're internally inconsistent it's massive misrepresentation i can only hope i think that they were trying to delay

1:11:36 when the day of reckoning would come and they would hope that the media being lazy about ufos generally unlike you coming out all the way here would treat it as a fait accompli the story is over the new york times did that which really makes me angry front page 60 column inch story with nothing about the special nature of the people who were involved in the group we're dealing with the only atomic bombing group in the world we're dealing with outstanding individuals not a word about that in the new york times it'll tell you everything you always want to know about mogul which is why would the new york times not want to break this story stanton come on i guess they they don't know that there is a story to break they haven't done their homework and they refuse to admit that for 47 years they've been guilty of sloppy research one of the 10 phd theses that's been done about ufos most people ignore that there are any is about press coverage and there are scathing remarks in that about the unwillingness of the press to do it don't ask me

1:12:36 why i'm not a newspaper the new york times took the air force report on its surface it makes a lot of sense you read that report it looks like they've done their homework i've spoken to everybody in the air force report except for dr spillhouse i've talked to other people the air force didn't talk to conspicuous by his absence is brigadier general arthur exxon who says he flew over two sites the site the air force claims was project mogul plus the impact site where the craft and bodies why do you think the media would not want this story i think the media should want this story why do you think they wouldn't just as a guess we don't get any kind of answer for them i have a good insight into that and i think that the media unfortunately have been victims if i can use that term like the rest of society and they have been influenced by the ridicule and the comic relief sort of approach that has been taken to this what do you make of the raw story we just saw on that and bob dean rather in that package about nato and what he saw

1:13:36 fascinating that's the sort of evidence i can grasp onto when we talk about distant craft or abductions i don't know where to go but when there is a a government connection that's something that we can get at by foyer requests or by gumshoe work but i think bob dean made one mistake when he said a lot of the people are afraid of the government that's why they're not coming forward and if they're giving an opportunity in front of congress they would come forward i think it goes deeper i think the majority of the people especially those involved in roswell are keeping the secret because they swore themselves they were sworn to secrecy they feel honor bound to keep that secrecy it's not fear of the government it's their own personal code of honor that's why they're not talking there's a real challenge here larry can we get the air force to say that anybody who wants to talk about this non-event in july 1947 is free to do so a blanket indemnification by the way they were asked to appear tonight and the air force and did not choose to warwick

1:14:36 rhode island as we go back to calls hello orange and they came in front of the car and then they flew off what's your question hello larry king yeah what's your question what is the best course of action to date if you see these objects okay good question what should someone who sees an object do well i think it depends on their stomach and what we're training people to do is to actually engage them in some kind of dialogue but i think that i would caution people not to do that unless they're prepared for the consequences of it in other words be careful what you ask for you may get it what if you see something weird in the sky i think that you should attempt if you are inclined to to signal to it or in some way communicate with it to see if it's under intelligent control and to get it to come closer too many of the sightings are too far away to conclude anything but if you can get one within a few hundred feet of you at low altitude you can make some better observations would you go public glenn should someone

1:15:37 who watching us tonight who maybe sees an object or has a visit or whatever go public well what does that do everyone's gone public that's a good question what do you do and i don't know gather as much information as you can using the tools you have with you that is what angle is it above the horizon don't estimate how big it is you have no way to judge what can you hold between thumb and forefinger that will just cover it can you call the guy on the other side of it so you can triangulate it can you time its flight from over that church steeple to over that telephone pole can you write down as much as you can as soon as possible are people steve kevin still laughed at oh absolutely when they report such things we did a press conference in chicago and talking about the roswell case and when they came back from the segment the the anchorman said well those guys uh sound almost uh credible and my response was your report was almost objective but with that kind of an attitude who's going to come forward new britain connecticut hello yes hello yes i would like to um suggest can we go

1:16:37 make a national um campaign to undercover all this information you know because the public is already tired of hearing what has congress said about it there's one thing going on omni magazine this month carries what they call the roswell declaration in the in the pages of the magazine you sign that you send it in proving that there's a grassroots interest in that that would help i think that's something more important that needs to be done is that on the senior levels of the executive branch of our government and other governments there does need to be a declaration of amnesty from prosecution for violation of security owes for people i think we all need to become aware that despite what you may have heard tonight in some of the pieces that most people do believe in ufos that the greater the education the more likely to believe polls have shown that but because they do doesn't mean it's a fact no but it means they will be less reluctant to speak out the professors will be less reluctant to sponsor thesis project the media will be less reluctant to cover

1:17:38 glenn i don't feel this this necessarily feel this demand uh to to make it happen i think it will happen when when society reaches a certain maturity we have a president who seems to be opening up everything dea reports you think he'd open this up too we're going to take a break and come back with more we're in nevada on our ufo special on tnt more calls and more conversation with our outstanding panel don't go away a decision has been made by somebody in government that mr president i'm sorry sir you don't have a high enough classification for some of this information we can't tell you this whole story next what's the government trying to hide coming up tnt's ufo watch 94 continues when james earl jones stars in a documented case of alien abduction the ufo incident then learn all about unidentified flying

1:18:38 objects on a live interactive special larry king the ufo cover-up on tnt tonight maybe you will take to the sea maybe you will have australian lobster for dinner maybe you are the most important person in the world maybe you will eat ice cream at midnight maybe life is more fair than you thought maybe this is not impossible maybe you could be there right now holland america line time it seems has a short attention span your shoes wear out before you've broken them in your favorite restaurant changes themes as soon as you learn to like sushi but the new jetta like all 94 volkswagen cars has the longest limited powertrain warranty of any car maker you can count on it for 10 years

1:19:39 and as you probably noticed a lot can happen in 10 years team needs new jerseys person has to deliver them overnight goes to post office finds express mail as a smart solution guarantees delivery jerseys arrive on time person avoids getting sacked company sells snorkels is shocked by high shipping costs goes to post office finds parcel post as a smart solution doesn't cost much snorkels get delivered company keeps its head up off water my name is lisa pretter and i'm an emergency medical technician my job is very stressful and sometimes i get headaches i take anison there's a lot in my life between my children and my work and i can't let headaches stop me from doing my job i mean we're talking emergencies where seconds count anison is so strong it gets rid of a headache better than any regular strength aspirin if someone needs help they're not concerned

1:20:39 with whether or not i have a headache and anison lets me get back on the job and do what i need to do strong fast anison works better on your headaches so you can work better unbelievable cut down 75 seasons the story of the national football league monday night at 7 eastern on tnt sunday night the dolphins and the bangles come to play on tnt when one coach named shoot meets another coach shula how come the big guns for a little family feud it's father and son night and that's why on sunday night we come to play tnt the dolphins and the babies eight eastern five pacific sunday night nfl on tnt listen to the howard stern show on 99.5 wrno to win with the nfl on tnt carmine chef joseph focaccio has had enough for the last time now chef what you can open now carmine's is now open in bucktown we're back slightly bigger

1:21:40 and better than ever we still have all of your favorites like seafood stuffed artichoke soft shell crab and more and chef joseph picascio's team of experts have been taste testing all the new dishes i don't know carmine's is back in bucktown join us for lunch and dinner and remember there's a little italian in the pot at carmine's by the way when the sun goes down in the desert so does the temperature and hence the coat it's getting a little cold if you think a lot of the ufo lore seems too wild to be true well congratulate yourself you're thinking critically not everybody does the field is awash in weird frightening stories supported by hardly a shed of proof and in preparing this program we found some of the wild stories may come from a surprising source old rumor

1:22:51 armstrong and aldrin saw ufos on the moon newer rumor the mars observer wasn't really lost but is secretly orbiting the red planet taking pictures too fantastic and frightening to release i spent 10 15 years on mars observer those guys are out of work today they're not off somewhere and walking out with a secret smile on their face this is nonsense this is truly nonsense dive into the ufo subculture and you see why establishment scientists don't welcome to the world's weirdest rumor mill secret alien underground bases joint government terrorist performing unspeakable medical procedures on people not a bit of proof for any of that we have to ask ourselves what's the genesis of stories like that incredibly there's evidence that some of them come from

1:23:52 inside the government itself and he pulled out a plain brown envelope and as he did so he said my superiors in washington have asked me to show this to you i was out in a place called crossville alabama linda moulton howe is a tv journalist who probes cattle mutilations and ufo's while producing a report for hbo in 1983 she says she was invited to kirtland air force base in new mexico by an agent of the air force office of special investigations she was led to a secure room and handed a document which shocked her began a very dry and brief summary of according to this paper i was being shown the crash and recovery of silver discs in a variety of locations in the southwestern united states and a place in the northern part of the nation of mexico according to this paper there were six of these small

1:24:53 gray skinned large eyed noseless slit for a mouth beings and the one was alive howe was told she'd been chosen to break the story of the century she was promised official film of saucers and aliens she told her bosses then came delays and excuses from her military connection and ultimately nothing hbo lost faith dropped howe's project was she exposed to genuine secrets or a weird hoax either way what was the point it seems to be a concerted effort to spread disinformation researcher jenny randalls had a similar strange experience while probing a 1980 incident at bentwaters air force base in england security patrols spotted a glowing object through the trees and came upon a metallic capsule shaped thing hovering in a clearing a u.s. lieutenant colonel led a chase and wrote up an official report but that's not all a few days after the incident occurred a base security police officer who has never gone on public

1:25:53 record since despite the fact many of the witnesses have done came out with this amazing scenario of aliens in the forest contact with the base commander which almost every other witness i've talked to since has categorically denied had taken place why would military sources seek out ufo researchers to peddle wild uncorroberated stories many charge it's part of a secret push to discredit them dr jacques valet believes hoaxes conceived in high places have misled investigators and witnesses alike in fact i know many of the cases that i have studied turned out to be not ufo cases at all but manipulations or fabrications that were done not by the witnesses but for the benefit of the by somebody else what's the motive some say ridicule if the idea is to hurt people's credibility it's worked and when real events happen when there are real crash discs or there are real beings

1:26:53 that walk into somebody's pasture and they see them we'll just make sure that ridicule and disinformation immediately follow and that will keep everybody including the media from paying any attention now i think that has been a policy decision take the controversial majestic 12 papers supposedly prepared in 1952 for president elect eisenhower they discuss recovered saucers and alien bodies the papers surfaced in california in 1987 but linda howe was shown some of the same language in her odd encounter in 1983 and another shadowy source told jenny randles about majestic 12 in 1986 if the papers are real they're astonishing if they're fakes they're clever fakes from the same sources who had contact with linda howe and jenny randles why this information has several purposes one it's to muddy the water two it's to get a little bit of information out in such a way that they want

1:27:55 to know how people respond to it i think possibly the problem is that there are real documents out there which are the smoking gun that everybody is looking for one answer mix kernels of truth with dollops of nonsense and feed it to ufo believers with a built-in penchant for the bizarre presto deception and confusion believers sound crazy the truth stays hidden does that sound paranoid or plausible we have some very clever people working in our government who have been manipulating the public mind for well over 50 years our panel will comment on what we've just seen we'll take your reactions as well by phone when our special continues don't go away if this is true it's the biggest event in all human history coming up

1:28:56 more from the most secret place in america a major new motion picture on tnt we are federal marshals we got fbi we're gonna take it all back good god another massacre at wounded knee a true story of conflict and courage somebody's got to stay here and finish this and one woman's fight for freedom lakota woman siege at wounded knee premieres sunday october 16th at 8 p.m it's my business to help keep people safe but it's more than just my job i'm a father i have a family you know the government says that a car with two airbags has to help protect two passengers but on the DeVille we also cared about the child who sits in the middle there's a company that goes beyond the federal standards to help protect all three front seat passengers my company Cadillac and you watch the airbag

1:29:56 system in the new DeVille may help save someone very close to you don't let a new car payment get you all wound up get smart lease by GMAC it can put a new spin on affordability don't let a new truck payment stretch you to the limit get smart lease by GMAC it keeps new vehicles well within reach you're so now so bright so you just mix things up a bit and create a stir bird's eye the fresh look for vegetables maybe you will take to the sea have Australian lobster for dinner maybe you are

1:30:58 the most important person in the world maybe you will eat ice cream at midnight maybe life is more fair than you thought maybe this is not impossible maybe you could be there right now Holland America Line John Goodman coming soon as the legendary Huey Long in a TNT original Kingfish what is the Elmwood Fitness Center Challenge well as New Orleans largest and most complete fitness center with two great locations and Ochsner certified fitness consultants the Elmwood Fitness Center is so sure you'll look better and feel better in just 30 days if you don't we'll give you your money back that's the Elmwood Fitness Center Challenge so no matter your age or your shape what have you got to lose stop by your nearest Elmwood Fitness Center and take the Elmwood Fitness Center Challenge today before it's too late halpern's

1:31:59 discounts brand name furniture and sells it to you for less at halpern's we've developed value pricing a balance of quality furniture price and hometown service this determines the brand's fair value stated simply halpern's discounts brand name furniture and sells it to you for less halpern's furnishing store 1600 Britannia corner Terpsichore open 10 to 6 Monday through Saturday 1230 to 530 on Sunday we're back with our UFO cover-up special this camera's a mile away from where we are see those lights that's us and behind us is this beautiful sunset on this October 1st evening in Rachel Nevada our guests are Kevin Randall Captain United States Air Force Reserves and Dr. Stephen Greer Founder and International Director CSETI

1:33:00 Glenn Campbell Area 51 Activist Head of the Research Center here in Rachel and the noted nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman we'll start with you Kevin what did you think of what we just saw there about those tabloids and what they do to this whole story I personally believe that if they didn't exist the government would be creating that to keep the curtain of ridicule down General Roger Ramey Commander of the 8th Air Force in 1947 after the Roswell event said that flying saucers have been seen in 38 states except for Kansas which is a dry state implying that if you see a flying saucer you're drunk Air Force the government everybody still implies if you see them you're drunk you're crazy it does hurt you stories like 12 senators are aliens we're all lumped into that category we're all crazy and they imply that we all believe that sort of thing hurt you do you think Stephen yes I think it hurts the whole field and I'll say this that I'm a skeptic about a lot of things and I think about

1:34:00 90 to 95 percent of everything that's written and said and broadcast on this subject is rubbish and I'll go on record saying that however there's a core of it that is true that is obfuscated by all these other disinformation stories I think some of them are just human folly actually are deliberately planted into the culture to put people off the trail Stanton a perfect example in this Air Force report on Roswell the statement is made that the story got big play because the National Enquirer carried an article about Major Jesse Marcel in 1978 and then it says UFO researcher Stanton Friedman me then started interviewing witnesses and so forth the article appeared two years later it's total baloney but it sounds great AP picked up on that part of the story totally wrong Glenn what do you make of that kind of media approach I seriously doubt personally that there's a lot of government disinformation involved I think that UFOlogists do it all by themselves

1:35:01 just by being themselves you don't think the government's influencing the globe oh I don't think the government is that powerful I think they could drop a few drugs I think you're absolutely right and the thing is if there weren't the organizations like the globe to do this the government would have to invent them they don't have to do it they just sit back and let us do it to ourselves right we're back to this perplexing thing we'll get right back to the calls as to why the government doesn't want its citizenry to have information it's still perplexing well there are very good people in the government who do and let me say this we've been working CSETI and we have a project known as Project Starlight which has been working with senior people in our government and governments elsewhere and there are a lot of people who really do want this to come out the problem is is that the government is not a monolith and you have compartmentalized areas of information that a lot of people can't get to you would be surprised the people in positions of authority who can't get to the information in their own government let's go back you want to say something yeah there's an important part of this if an announcement were to be made

1:36:01 really carefully there would be an immediate push I believe on the part of the younger generation for a view of ourselves that would require that we owe our primary allegiance to the planet we're earthlings instead of Americans rushing you mean nationalism would end yeah and no government on this planet wants its citizens to owe their primary allegiance to the planet rather than the individual government Michael Rennie's speech at the end of the day the earth stood still let's go to some more calls San Francisco hello yes Mr. King my question is my name is David and I'm originally from Pine Bush New York which seems to have a substantial amount of UFO activity and sightings and what I'm wondering is is there any research going on in that particular area of the country right now there's a whole book about those sightings by Ellen Crystal there are a lot of people who go up there for more or less regularly to see sightings to see UFOs but the thing I have to point out is I check all my audiences more than 700 50 states 9 provinces all over the place

1:37:01 and typically I find at the end of my lecture when I ask at least 10% believe they've seen a UFO but then I ask how many of you reported what you saw only 1 in 20 of the 10% sightings are common reports are uncommon investigations are rare one night I used to do color on the Miami Dolphin broadcast we're flying back I think in 1971 72 beautiful evening forget where we had played and there was a white light off to the right of the airplane where we were like at our altitude it wasn't an airplane it wasn't a star it glowed it got a lesser glow and then a higher glow and then a lesser glow we walked up to the pilot the pilot said I don't know what it is he reported it it was not on the radar and in about an hour it went away what was that an unidentified something in the sky so I saw a UFO but not necessarily a flying saucer right not necessarily could have been anything right and this is an important distinction that we try to focus in on events that are close enough range that we can distinguish that it is not something conventional Philadelphia hello hi Dr. Stephen Greer

1:38:03 said something interesting early in the show and that was that on several occasions he's signaled these saucers and seen them up close I'd like to ask him if he's ever taken any video or still pictures of these sightings and signalings he's done with them yeah we do have some videotape and still pictures I'm not a videographer or photographer what does it take you put up by a camera and you take pictures well we have people on our team who do that and I think have you shown them everywhere I have shown them I think we gave them to your producer I don't know if you're going to show them in the broadcast or not and what I would point out to people is that there are dozens of photographs and hundreds of videotapes now this is not an unusual thing if the media would spend 10% of the time they're spending on O.J. Simpson or Whitewater to look into this they would find there's a tremendous amount of good evidence out there what do you think Goldwater meant or General LeMay meant when he told Goldwater or got mad at him don't ask me about this yeah I've spoken to Barry about this and Senator Goldwater felt and I think what was intended was that

1:39:03 yes there is something there there's smoke and there's probably fire and do not ask about it because from what I understand Curtis LeMay himself did not have access to this area where this stuff was kept we'll have more on our UFO special from Rachel Nevada on TNT I'm Larry King back with our guests some more phone calls another very interesting package right after this I think it's quite clear that the major powers of the world have access to a lot of information about UFOs how much do we know the climax of the mystery after this you'll never be alone never be in pain never grow old unless you run Logan's Run tomorrow on TNT there are two important questions to ask when choosing a pain reliever does it work fast and how long

1:40:03 will the relief last for minor arthritis Advil works directly at the site of pain it's fast and Advil provides hour after hour of pain relief in fact nothing's been proven to last longer than Advil next time you have sore muscles a back ache or minor arthritis pain remember nothing's been proven to last longer than Advil advanced medicine for pain some of the world's most advanced safety innovations are now available in this handsome carrying case the new 960 from Volvo maybe you will take to the sea maybe you will have

1:41:04 Australian lobster for dinner maybe you are the most important person in the world maybe you will eat ice cream at midnight maybe life is more fair than you thought maybe this is not impossible maybe you could be there right now Holland America Line you know how to listen you listen with your whole body your hands your eyes your face you believe that people already know the answers they just need to hear them out loud so you listen introducing Time Bank only Time Bank awards you one free minute for every five you spend on the phone when was the last time you were awarded for something you were already doing you're looking really fresh but let's dress you up a little maybe add a few bows

1:42:05 bird's eye the fresh look for vegetables because they're helping to build dreams because of their spirit of teamwork the men and women of Home Depot share in the spirit of the Olympics and to help build better homes we're proud to have Mills Pride as a member of our Home Depot Olympic family Mills Pride makes the finest easy to assemble custom home storage systems and bath and vanity cabinets they give you their best just like the U.S. Olympic team and just like the people at Home Depot it is more than just a game it is a game of power and grace it is a haunted game in which every player is measured against the ghosts of all who had gone before but most of all it is a game of imperishable hope wins and losses and coming home Baseball

1:43:06 a film by Ken Burns it's the game of our lives available wherever video is sold it is now cold in Rachel Nevada we would be crazy to supply a definitive answer to the UFO riddle tonight all we're trying to do is take it seriously for a change and ask one hard question most respectable reporters haven't bothered to ask what do we really know what if all of us in the world discovered that we were threatened by an outer of power from outer space from another planet Ronald Reagan being fanciful or letting slip that he knew something we don't questions like that keep the believers in business stop the cover off now

1:44:09 in the Pentagon may even have vaults that have bodies in them as well as crash debris from Roswell and other crashes we don't know until they start telling us what's going on we just don't have any idea it's not a figment of the imagination of a bunch of lunatics this is actually a reality for people and people at the Pentagon know about these things they waited for nearly half a century hoping to find to get a piece of credible scientific evidence they've been disappointed and so now in desperation they charge oh the government has that evidence and is withholding it from us crash saucers who knows but clearly the government is withholding something the Air Force answers queries by claiming it quit investigating UFOs in 1969 so why does this once classified memo from 1979 reporting a UFO on the ground in Bolivia get copied to Wright-Patterson

1:45:09 Air Force Base the Air Force even claims it knows of no agency with UFO records other than the National Archives So what about what about this mid-70s CIA paper on magnetism which includes the phrase this in turn is related to the possible propulsion system of UFOs if there's nothing to hide why did the National Security Agency go to court to stop the release of UFO files this is all the public got to see if there's no cover-up why act that way the cover-up that exists is a cover-up principally of ignorance rather than knowledge they're desperate to find out what makes these things happen why they can fly around our atmosphere at will why they seem to have capabilities far beyond us there is no incentive for any government to come out and say that there is something out there that they don't know we pay taxes to be protected among other things from unknown things out there Vietnam Watergate and Iran

1:46:10 contra made government lies and conspiracies seem all the more plausible what's more so many self-styled UFO researchers jumped to conclusions seizing for example on President Reagan's off-hand talk of threats from outer space as proof that sinister secrets are being kept to distinguish fiction from fact is not always easy there are a lot of us who are not interested in making that distinction they just want a good story and it is the doleful job of scientists to try to distinguish fact from fiction hope from reality so what do we really know we know the field is so riddled with sensational rumors and wild stories doing as Dr. Sagan says picking out fact from fiction is almost impossible we know many witnesses are not crackpots or publicity hounds but sober citizens who suffer for coming forward and we know the government's much more interested in all this than it's willing to admit

1:47:10 whether it's hiding all the answers or just asking the same questions we are I have never ever had anything but respect at one level for anyone inside of our government who has been trying to ride this difficult story not knowing what they were dealing with not wanting the status quo to suddenly be disrupted for reasons that may not have any kind of importance in terms of if there was not a perceived immediate physical threat then let's wait let's find out what this is and then we'll announce it to the public the problem is this has been going on now for 50 years with a policy of silence but for 50 years respectable scientists have turned their back on the UFO question at least in public until that changes and until the governments of the world unlock those censored files whatever they hold what chance do we on the outside really have of solving the puzzle I'm an optimist I think again and again in the history of science you've had phenomena

1:48:10 that were thought to be ridiculous or were covered up or were repressed and that turned out to be very significant so maybe history says we ought to listen to the thousands of witnesses who say they not only think they know something is out there they conducted autopsies I saw the photographs the metal was had the appearance of the backside of aluminum foil I get letters from Saudi Arabia from New Zealand from Russia so the phenomenon is extremely widespread I think the government has an obligation to come forward with the information it has and to make it public the American people are stronger than their government has ever realized they're brighter they're stronger they're braver they're more courageous than their government even recognizes I still believe at the deepest level in my heart that this subject will come out the people will learn the truth they will deal with it

1:49:11 and they will grow from it and develop and go on from there is he right will we develop and grow from it do we really want to know I think we have to know how can we survive as a culture as a society if there's information that we're not allowed to know we're not privy to how can we make intelligent decisions about what we're going to do in the future if something is kept from us yeah I think too that perhaps during the cold war there were reasons to keep this quiet I don't think those reasons exist anymore and that if it's done in the proper fashion if an announcement concerning this can be done in a proper way that it will be the catalytic event that will lead us into the next millennium in a state of much better than we are now I think or else these people we just saw were lying yeah I think it's easy to call people liars Larry and the noisy negativists as I call them often do that without checking their facts without getting their data straight I think what's important here

1:50:13 is to recognize that the future of this planet is going to be interconnected with space whether we like it or not at this point in time just as North and South America were important for the Europeans of a few hundred years ago space will be important for our grandchildren and their grandchildren and as soon as we recognize that we're part of a galactic neighborhood and maybe we can act in such a way to qualify for admission to the cosmic preschool I don't think even get into kindergarten yet the better off we will be and some people are fearful sorry about that Glenn I really question how important the aliens really are I really I think that fundamentally we retain our humanity our world is here if they are out there on the moon or circling around or coming and taking our cattle that doesn't really change our life here we still have to be human if the story hits the government releases some information we still have to go back to our jobs the next day everybody's got to do what they got to do tomorrow that's right but they have more knowledge

1:51:13 at least of the world they will a couple more calls Franklin West Virginia hello hi Mr. King I have a question for your general panel can you speculate how long the government will be able to keep not only the mission of Area 51 a secret but what they really know about UFOs a secret from the general public how long Kevin as long as the curtain of ridicule exists as long as people are afraid to come forward because they don't want to be ridiculed I mentioned earlier President Clinton he's opening up all the agencies Agent Orange diseases from 30 years ago Department of Energy has done a spectacular job don't you think I think this administration is inclined to come out with the truth on a lot of things that have not been disclosed in the past the problem is is how much they can get in terms of information and I reiterate that the government is not a monolith it's a hugely complex entity and there are activities in the government which many people at the top are not aware of and so I think that the people have to help

1:52:14 the executive branch and Congress become aware of this in a way that's credible and that's what we're trying to do does it confound you Stanton when in your heart as a physicist and in your mind and beliefs you know this to be a fact and the general consensus of the body politic laughs at you they don't laugh at me and there have been polls of engineers and scientists Larry that show that a majority of them believe they're real so you don't think you're on the out I've spoken at a hundred professional groups and they respond beautifully Los Alamos National Laboratory management clubs Denver, Colorado hello yes Mr. King in our area we have numerous cattle mutilations animals that disappear local news never says a word what kind of research what kind of area are we getting into with these about 80% of those I think are decoy events probably perpetrate meaning that they are probably done by some branch

1:53:14 of the military or intelligence services there's a core of 10 to 20% that are probably animal experiments for reasons which we don't know I disagree with that I would say that 99% of the animal mutilations are probably natural phenomenon someize something for me Glenn I only have a few minutes left what's going out there tonight like if the phone rings what's the number area 51 what's the phone number I don't know 702 what does the switchboard operators say who's there what are they doing gosh I wish I knew but things are going to change now we are at a crossroads as they say we at this point in history things are different now we do not have this Soviet threat that all this secrecy was hidden behind you can hide anything behind our dire enemy what do you think is going on out there now Kevin I think that there's just experimentation on the next generation of fighter or bomber aircraft

1:54:15 you think there's any alien evidence out there too I don't think so but that's my personal opinion I don't think it's involved out there no Dr. Greer I honestly don't know what's going on at Area 51 I will say that I'm certain that there are current operations dealing with deep space network and telemetry into space and what have you where people are aware of the movements of these spacecraft in real time and what I'd like to focus on is not things that happened 50 years ago but the fact that here tonight somewhere there is activity which can be traced and can be documented and what we need to do is to trim somehow to establish contact with whoever is behind this phenomenon when do you think Stanton your evidence as you see it will be accepted I don't know that it's been rejected it hasn't been presented in the right places I guess I'm an optimist I think again because of Hazel O'Leary on your show talking about Bill Clinton and the Department of Energy 33 million pages of stuff and since they weren't involved in the beginning of the cover up

1:55:15 that they will have guts enough to open the door to the data and I think that will happen within the next few years before the end of the century do you think another thing might happen Glenn do you think maybe they'll come to Washington these aliens and say hello I have the feeling personal that they probably obey the prime directive and that comes from Star Trek that they should leave us alone and let us conduct our own lives they seem to not want a lot of attention let me say though I do think that within the decade that it is likely that an undeniable event will transpire the proliferation of video cameras and other technologies are such that some of the events that had happened and waves of UFO events in past decades if they were to happen now in 1994 there is a higher and higher chance that this would result in undeniable evidence are you encouraged that this administration would help yes therefore you think President Clinton does not now know what you may know I really shouldn't comment on that what does that mean

1:56:17 that's a mysterious well I just I just don't what I think is that the current administration and cabinet level people are probably not informed to where they should be and to the extent they have been informed it has probably been disinformation and not information Kevin optimistic or pessimistic oh looking at the history of our government in the last 50 years I'm fairly pessimistic I think I think it will take some kind of an outside event for us to really learn what's going on Glenn I'm neither optimistic or pessimistic if the story hits it will cause a big stir in the media for a while but we'll go back to our regular lives just for a while come on well picture hard copy be there tomorrow morning up in Pudu picture the O.J. Simpson brouhaha and multiply that by 10 and maybe you might have the UFO thing sex in space I think it will be bigger than that I think that what you'll see is a transformation in the way we look at ourselves as a people

1:57:18 we will evolve into a global society instead of national ones are you optimistic? yes I'm very optimistic in fact and you Stanton? I'm optimistic I'm concerned that the American people are nowhere near enough aware of how much stuff is being covered up as we speak the huge black budgets all the documents that scares me thank you all very much for being a terrific panel and for participating in this show that started in daylight at an end in darkness our guests have been Kevin Randall Captain United States Air Force Reserves Glenn Campbell on the far end Area 51 activist Dr. Stephen Greer and Stanton Friedman nuclear physicist and UFO researchers this has been another one of our series of TNT specials we do these about twice a year for our sister network our regular home is Larry King Live on CNN we thank you very much for joining us we hope that you learned a lot tonight and found it both entertaining and informative at the same time we also want to thank everybody associated here in this wonderful little spot on our treasured earth called Rachel Nevada for their wonderful cooperation

1:58:19 and this great crew as well our producers and the entire staff thanks for joining us have a great time and bye

1:59:31 coming up TNT's UFO Watch 94 continues when James Earl Jones stars in a documented case of alien abduction the UFO incident then learn all about unidentified flying objects on a live interactive special Larry King the UFO cover-up on TNT tonight to a seven-year-old velocity doesn't mean much the equations that surround mass and momentum aren't as much fun as the song on the radio and crash test dummies don't go on family vacations but the people who buy Volkswagen Jettas do that's why our engineers designed the new Jetta with dual airbags front and rear crumple zones side impact beams and a rigid passenger safety cage velocity, mass, and momentum

2:00:31 don't mean much to children and we plan on keeping it that way my name is Lisa Pretter and I'm an emergency medical technician my job is very stressful and sometimes I get headaches I take Anacin there's a lot in my life between my children and my work and I can't let headaches stop me from doing my job I mean we're talking emergencies or seconds count Anacin is so strong it gets rid of a headache better than any regular strength aspirin if someone needs help they're not concerned with whether or not I have a headache and Anacin lets me get back on the job and do what I need to do strong fast Anacin works better on your headache so you can work better maybe you will have Australian lobster for dinner maybe you are the most important person in the world maybe you will eat ice cream at midnight maybe life is more fair than you thought maybe this is not impossible maybe you could be there right now

2:01:31 Holland America Line don't let a new car payment be a financial burden get Smart Lease by GMAC it just might give you something you wouldn't mind carrying around don't let a new truck payment stretch you to the limit get Smart Lease by GMAC it keeps new vehicles well within reach Tommy Lee Jones coming soon in a new motion picture on TNT the good old boys who doesn't like chocolate milk look out America this time Gallagher's going ballistic one show only Saturday night October 1st at the State Palace Theater

2:02:31 it's Gallagher's biggest mess yet bring someone you love or someone you don't love who serves seats now at the State Palace Theater box office for information or to charge tickets call 522-4435 Saturday, October Carmine's chef Joseph Picassio's had enough for the last time now, chef what? you can open now wait Carmine's is now open in Bucktown we're back slightly bigger and better than ever we still have all of your favorites like seafood stuffed artichoke soft shell crab and more and chef Joseph Picassio's team of experts have been taste testing all the new dishes I don't know Carmine's is back in Bucktown join us for lunch and dinner and remember there's a little Italian in the pot at Carmine's land encounters UFO investigations UFO movies welcome to TNT's UFO Watch 94

2:03:54 Thank you.