Congressional hearings on military reports of Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UAP) - May 17th, 2022

0:05 the subcommittee will come to order without objection the chair May declare a recess at any time before we get started I want to recognize a moment of silence for the victims of the white supremacist hate crime in Buffalo New York the subcommittee has focused intently on that threat in both open and closed hearings it is utterly devastating to see more victims of this violence our heart breaks for you with that I ask my colleagues to join pardon me we will now turn to the business of this hearing more than 50 years ago the U.S government ended Project Blue an effort to catalog and understand sightings of objects in the air that could not otherwise be explained for more than 20 years that project had treated unidentified anomalies in our airspace as a national security threat

1:07 to be monitored and investigated in 2017 we learned for the first time that the Department of Defense had quietly restarted a similar organization tracking what we now call unidentified aerial phenomena or uaps last year Congress rewrote the charter for that organization now called The Airborne object identification and management synchronization group or aim for short today we will bring that organization Out of the Shadows this hearing and oversight work has a simple idea at its core unidentified aerial phenomena are a potential national security threat and they need to be treated that way for too long the stigma associated with uaps has gotten in the way of good intelligence Pilots avoided reporting or were laughed at when they did officials relegated the issue to the back room or swept it under the rug

2:07 entirely fearful of a skeptical National Security Community today We Know Better uaps are unexplained it's true but they are real they need to be investigated and many threats they pose need to be mitigated under secretary Moultrie Mr thank you for coming today first we need you to update us on the status of aimsalk the legislation creating it was passed in December the deadline for implementation is fast approaching but the group does not even have a name director we need to know sirs the status of the organization and the obstacle to getting it up and running you have to convince the audience today and most especially our military and civilian aviators the culture has changed that those who report uaps will be treated as Witnesses not as Kooks

3:09 thirdly you need to show US Congress and the American public whose imaginations you have captured you are willing to follow the facts where they lead you know we fear sometimes that the dod is focused more on emphasizing what it can explain not investigating what it can I'm looking for you to assure us today that all conclusions are on the table one final note we are mindful today that aimsog is not starting from scratch this is the third version of this task force in DOD and Civil Society groups like the mutual UFO Network Mr Corbell and others have been collecting data on this issue for years I hope you'll explain how you can leverage the knowledge and experience of our prior work on this matter to move the aim saw along the last time Congress had a hearing on uaps was half a century ago I hope that it does not take 50 more years for Congress to hold another because transparency is desperately

4:09 needed and now turn to ranking member Crawford for comments he'd like to make thank you Mr chairman honorable Moultrie Mr Bray thank you for coming here today we appreciate it to begin the open dialogue between Congress and the executive branch on this important topic while this topic evokes creative imaginations of many aside from all the hype and speculation there are important underlying issues posed by uaps despite the serious nature of this topic I have to say I'm more interested in our understanding of Chinese and Russian Hypersonic weapon development or understanding why this Administration was so slow to share actionable intelligence with the ukrainians however in as much as this topic may help us better understand unknown activities of Russia and China I am on board the intelligence Community has a serious duty to our taxpayers to prevent potential adversaries such as China and Russia from surprising us with unforeseen new technologies as overseers of the intelligence Community this committee has an obligation to understand what you are doing to determine whether any uaps are new technologies or not and if they are where are they coming from in general

5:11 the IC spends much of its time and resources trying to understand what we call known unknowns when it comes to foreign Nations Weapons Systems and sensors known unknowns are those features that we don't fully understand yet the challenge associated with UAP is that they are completely unknown and require a more expansive collection analysis effort the intelligence Community must balance addressing known threats to our national security with preventing technical surprise we must continue to follow the facts where they lead us and ensure that there are no technical surprises the IC must take it seriously when there are credible observations a phenomena that seem to perform in ways that could pose a threat to safe flight operations or they could be signs of a foreign adversary's attempt to develop a strategic technological surprise against the United States it's also essential that our pilots and others feel they can report uaps they observe without any stigma for doing so this is the open unclassified portion of our hearing we'll have a closed classified part later it's important for the public to know that the

6:11 classification of information exists to protect National Security not to try to hide the truth when we're trying to determine if any uaps are new technologies being developed by Foreign governments we are inevitably going to run into classified information about what new systems and Technologies we do know are in the works here or abroad but where information does not risk National Security it should be shared with our allies and the public when feasible I hope that we can have your Assurance to this end today it's my hope that the intelligence Community will continue to try to determine the nature of uaps we've observed and will keep Congress fully apprised of all developments I look forward to this hearing and continued dialogue and oversight with the intelligence community on this topic and without a yield back gentleman yields back and now I'll turn to our distinguished chairman Adam Schiffer any comments he wishes to make thank you chairman Carson for holding this open hearing on unidentified aerial phenomenon and for your leadership on this issue holding a portion of our discussion today in open session is critical to the cause of transparency and openness which was congress's intent

7:13 in authorizing and funding this new task the larger effort that is being undertaken to study and characterize UAP reports is an important step towards understanding these phenomenon what we know and don't know and I look forward to hearing more during both the Open Session and the closed setting about how dod and the IC are undertaking that task UAP reports have been around for decades and yet we haven't had an orderly way for them to be reported without stigma and to be investigated that needs to change UAP reports need to be understood as a national security matter and that message needs to go out across DOD the IC and the whole of the US government when we spot something we don't understand or can't identify in our airspace it's the job of those we entrust with our national security to investigate and to report back that is why it's important that we hold this open hearing for the public to hear directly from the Department of Defense on the steps it's taking to track analyze and transparently communicate

8:14 the work that is being done on this issue it is also the responsibility of our government and this panel to share as much as we can with the American people since excessive secrecy only breeds distrust and speculation I look forward to hearing how the UAP task force is being stood up what challenges they still face and how this committee can make sure the task force is able to shed light on one of the world's most enduring Mysteries I thank you gentlemen for your work and be very interested to hear what you have to say to me among the most fascinating questions are these phenomena that we can measure that is instruments report there is something there it is not the human eye confusing objects in the sky there is something there measurable my multiple instruments and yet it seems to move in directions that are inconsistent with what we know of physics or science more broadly and that to me poses uh questions of of tremendous interest and

9:14 as well as potential National Security significance so we look forward to hearing what you're able to report to us today in Open Session and I want to thank chairman Carson again for his extraordinary leadership on this issue and I yield back chairman heels back thank you with that we will start our hearing under secretary Moultrie the floor is yours thank you chairman Siff committee chairman Carson ranking member Crawford distinguished members of the subcommittee it's a privilege to be here with you today to address your questions regarding unidentified aerial phenomenon or UAP I'm pleased to be joined by Mr Scott Bray the deputy director of Naval intelligence who will speak to the Navy's unidentified aerial phenomenon task force which laid the foundation for the efforts we will discuss today first I'd like to thank Congress for supporting the Department's UAP efforts the ndaa for fiscal year 2022 has helped us to establish a dedicated office to oversee processes and procedures for the timey collection processing analysis and

10:16 reporting of UAP related data what are UAP put simply UAP or Airborne objects that when encountered cannot be immediately identified however it is the Department's contention that by combining appropriately structured collected data with rigorous scientific analysis any object that we encounter can likely be this isolated characterize identified and if necessary mitigated we know that our service members have encountered unidentified aerial phenomena and because uaps pose potential flight safety and General Security risk we are committed to a focused effort to determine their our effort will include the thorough examination of adversarial platforms and potential breakthrough Technologies U.S government or commercial platforms Allied or partner systems and other natural phenomena

11:19 we also understand that there has been a cultural stigma surrounding UAP our goal is to eliminate the stigma by fully incorporating our operators and Mission Personnel into a standardized data Gathering process we believe that making UAP reporting a mission imperative will be instrumental to the effort success the defense intelligence and security Enterprise provides real-time support to our war Fighters and missing Personnel across all domains to optimize the Department's UAP work we are establishing an office within the office of the Secretary of Defense that office's function is clear to facilitate the identification of previously unknown or unidentified Airborne objects in the methodical logical and standardized manner these goals will ensure that we are working closely with operational Personnel on training and Reporting requirements developing data and intelligence requirements standardizing and integrating processes and procedures for collection

12:20 operational surveillance analysis and Reporting leveraging our research and development capabilities to improve detection characterization and identification of uaps developing mitigating Solutions and procedures and identifying strategy and policy this effort will maximize collaboration and build upon already existing relationships with the office of the Director of National Intelligence the FAA DHS and the FBI we are also committed to strong Partnerships with the Department of energy NOAA the DEA NASA and the National Labs and just as importantly our International partners and allies with regard to the importance of transparency the department is fully committed to the principle of openness and accountability to the American however we are also mindful of Our obligation to protect sensitive sources and methods our goal is to strike that delicate balance one that enables us to

13:20 maintain the Public's trust while preserving those capabilities that are vital to the support of our service in closing the department is committed to this effort and welcomes the challenge we thank you for your committed support and look forward to your questions chairman Jeff chairman Carson ranking member Crawford and committee members thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today to highlight the ongoing work of the Department of Defense regarding unidentified aerial phenomena since the early 2000s we have seen an increasing number of unauthorized and or unidentified aircraft or objects in military-controlled training areas and training ranges and other designated airspace reports of sightings are frequent and continuing we attribute this increase in reporting to a number of factors including our work to destigmatize reporting an increase in the number of new systems such as quadcopters and unmanned aerial systems that are in our airspace

14:21 identification of what we can classify as clutter mylar balloons and other types of air trash and improvements in the capabilities of our various sensors to detect things in our airspace almost two years ago in August of 2020 deputy secretary of defense norquist directed the establishment of the unidentified aerial phenomena task force within the department of the Navy the UAP task force was built on the foundation of the Navy's initial efforts to respond to the reports from our aviators on unidentified objects observed in our training ranges the basic issues then and now are twofold first incursions in our training ranges by unidentified objects represent serious hazards to safety of flight in every aspect of Naval Aviation safety of our air Crews is Paramount second intrusions by unknown aircraft or objects pose potential threats to the security of our operations our aviators train as they would fight so any intrusions that may compromise the security of our operations by

15:23 revealing our capabilities our tactics techniques or procedures are of great concern to the Navy and the Department of Defense from the very beginning we took these reports very seriously we instituted a data-driven approach to the investigations where we could collect as much data as possible and use all available resources to analyze and make informed decisions on the best ways to address our findings our main objective was to transition UAP efforts from an anecdotal or narrative-based approach to a rigorous science and technology engineering Focus study this data-driven approach requires input from a wide variety of sources in the early stages the task force worked to standardize the reporting mechanisms and processes to make it as easy as possible for personnel to report any engagement so that we were getting that wide range of reporting that we needed we also spent considerable efforts engaging directly with our Naval aviators and building relationships to help destigmatize the active reporting

16:25 sightings or encounters and we worked with Naval Aviation leadership to provide additional equipment to record any encounter Navy and Air Force Crews now have step-by-step procedures for reporting on UAP on their kneeboard in their in the cockpit and in their post flight debrief the direct result of those efforts has been increased reporting with increased opportunities to focus a number of sensors on any objects the message is now clear if you see something you need to report it and the message has been received in fact recently I received a call from a senior Naval aviator with over 2000 flight hours he called me personally from the flight line after landing to talk about an encounter that he had just experienced those were just the initial steps we also made a concerted effort to assemble subject matter experts from across the Department of Defense in the intelligence Community another U.S government agencies and departments we forged Partnerships with the research development and acquisition communities

17:25 with industry partners and with academic research labs and we brought many allies and international Partners into our discussions on UAP additionally subject matter experts from a wide variety of fields including physics Optics Metallurgy meteorology just to name a few have been brought into uh to expand our understanding in areas where me we may not have organic expertise in short we've endeavored to bring an all hands on deck approach to the to better understand this phenomena so what have we learned so far any given observation may be fleeting or longer it may be recorded or not it may be observable by one or multiple assets in short there's rarely an easy answer for example let me share with you the first video that we have here today which shows an observation in real time

18:28 there it was that's in many cases that's all that a report may include and in many other cases we have far less than this as we detailed in both the unclassified and classified versions of the preliminary assessment released by the office of the Director of National Intelligence last June this often limited amount of high quality data and Reporting hampers our ability to draw firm conclusions about the nature or intent of UAP as detailed on the odni report if and when individual UAP incidents are resolved they likely fall into one of five potential explanatory categories Airborne clutter natural atmospheric phenomena U.S government or U.S industry developmental programs foreign adversary systems or a other bin that allows for a holding bin of difficult cases and for the possibility of surprise and potential scientific We Stand by those initial results since the release of that preliminary report the UAP task force database has

19:29 now grown to contain approximately 400 the stigma has been reduced we've also made progress in resolving the character of a limited number of UAP encounters for example let me show you a couple of another video and image taken years apart in different areas in this video U.S Navy personnel recorded what appears to be triangles some flashing recorded several years ago off the coast of the United States this was recorded while the U.S Navy ship observed a number of small unmanned aerial systems in the area importantly the video was taken through night vision goggles with a single lens reflex camera these remained unresolved for several

20:36 several years later and off a different Coast U.S Navy personnel again in a swarm of unmanned aerial systems and again through night vision goggles and an SLR recorded this image but this time other U.S Navy assets also observed unmanned aerial systems nearby and were now reasonably confident that these triangles correlate the unmanned aerial systems in the area the Triangular appearance is a result of light passing through the night vision goggles and then being recorded by an SLR camera I don't mean to suggest that everything that we observe is is identifiable but um the um it but this is a great example of how it takes considerable effort to understand what we're seeing uh in the examples that we are able to collect um in this example we accumulate sufficient data from two similar encounters from two different time periods in two different Geographic

21:36 areas to help us draw these conclusions that's not always the case though we recognize that that can be unsatisfying or insufficient in the eyes of many this is a popular Topic in our nation with various theories as to what these objects may be and where they originate by Nature we are all curious and we seek to understand the unknown and as a lifelong intelligence professional I'm impatient I want immediate explanations for this as much as anyone else however understanding can take significant time and effort it's why we've endeavored to concentrate on this data-driven process to drive fact-based results and given the nature of our business National Defense we've had to sometimes be less forthcoming with information in open forums than many would hope if UAP do indeed represent a Potential Threat to our security then the capabilities systems processes and sources we use to observe recorded study or analyze these phenomena need to be classified at appropriate levels we do not want we do not want potential

22:38 adversaries to know exactly what we're able to see or understand or how we come to the conclusions we make therefore public disclosures must be carefully considered on a case-by-case basis so what's next we're concentrating on a seamless transition to the new organization in future analysis of complicated issues of UAP issues will greatly benefit from the infrastructure of the process and the procedures that we've developed to date I'm confident that the task force under Navy leadership has forged a path forward that will allow us to Anchor Assessments in science and engineering Vice anecdotal evidence we remain committed to that goal as I know the usdi organization does as well so thank you very much for your interest in continuing support for the UAP task force the team's made a lot of progress but we really are just establishing the foundation for the more detailed analysis that's yet to be done and with your continued support we can sustain that momentum necessary to produce data Centric analysis and understanding the phenomena I look forward to your questions thank you thank you Mr Bray this is the third version of this task

23:40 force and to be frank one of congress's concerns is that the executive branch in administration on both parties has been sweeping concerns about uaps under the rug by focusing on events that can be explained and avoiding events that cannot be explained what can you what what what what what can you say to give the American people confidence that you aren't just focusing our attention on low-hanging fruit with easy explanations Congressman I'll start and then Mr Bray please feel free to uh to weigh in so the way that we're approaching this is with a more thorough standardized methodology and what we have in the past first and foremost the secretary of defense is chartering this effort this is not someone lower in the Department of Defense and he has assigned that task to the office of Secretary of Defense the

24:42 under secretary for intelligence is curated that's me because I'm responsible for looking at intelligence matters I'm responsible for security matters this is potentially both so when you start concerning the our results with the safety of our Personnel the the safety of our installations and bases there's no other higher priority than what we have than actually getting after this and as you have stated we have been assigned that task to actually stand up an office the aim SOG which I believe the name sir will likely change but we have moved forward in terms of moving to establish that office we have uh as of this week pick the director for that effort uh very established and and accomplished individual we've identified spaces we've worked with Personnel across the Department of Defense with the services and we've worked with the IC which is on board in helping us work through this

25:42 standardized methodology for now bringing in data analyzing that data and reporting that data in the appropriate method appropriate means so we can either get it to our service Personnel to ensure their safety or get it to you and the Congress and to the public to ensure that you have oversight to what we're doing so to write about the Secretary of Defense standardize and uh really a methodical approach it's something you're doing that has not been done before can we get some kinds of assurances that your analysts will follow the facts where they lead and assess all hypotheses absolutely so we're open to all hypotheses we're open to any uh conclusions that uh that we may encounter uh quickly before I pass it to the ranking member and chairman Schiff I want to thank you both for taking the time and I had a good time meeting with you last week director Moultrie under secretary Moultrie it's fair to say that you are a science

26:43 fiction fan is that correct May the spirits say that I am an inquisitive mind who has uh spent 40 years in the intelligence field and has focused on both science and science fiction atmosphere could you tell us about it yeah well yeah look my generation grew up uh looking at space sagas and and the Apollo program so all of us who grew up in the 60s were were just thrilled by watching our first astronaut land on the Moon that was a momentous occasion to people who were of different Generations uh some of them didn't believe that it happened I still have relatives and for instance don't believe it happened right science fiction to them but to us it was no that's the progress that we've made and so I was enthralled by that and I've taken that to heart I enjoy the challenge of what may be out there I have mentioned to you that yes I have followed science fiction I have gone to conventions even I'll see it on the

27:44 record uh I got to break the ice somehow but uh you know I have done that right but there's nothing wrong with that um don't necessarily dress up but I do uh you know I do believe that it's important to show that the Department of Defense has um you know we have character and we're people just like you just like the American people we have our um we have our um our inquisitiveness uh we have our questions we want to know what's out there as much as you want to know what's out there we get the questions not just from you we get it from family members and we get them night and day not just in committee hearings so finding what's out there is important but first and forth and foremost it's important for us to do that so we can ensure there are people our Personnel our aviators our bases and the installations are safe and then that Curiosity factor is something else that that we just want to know because that's the human race it's just you know that insatiable desire to know thank you sir ranking member Crawford Mr rental you said you don't necessarily

28:46 dress up that wasn't a real strong statement gentlemen thank you for being here today we appreciate it um and thank you Mr Mulder for breaking the ice the way you did appreciate that the inability to understand objects in our operating areas is tantamount to an intelligence failure that we certainly want to avoid it's not about finding alien spacecraft but about delivering dominant intelligence across the Tactical operational and strategic so my question is how can aim SOG lead to prevention of intelligence surprises sure I'll start with that so the goal of our effort is to integrate it into what we already do on a normal basis which is look for the unknown unknowns Congressman as you stated in your opening remarks across all domains so we've been doing this for decades we've been looking at the space domain looking at space objects looking at space weather looking at space phenomenon we've been looking at things in the air

29:46 domain and we as you know we um and I'll talk more about this and classified sessions but we have a very concerted effort to understand adversarial platforms and adversarial developmental programs and we do that also on the ground domain and of course we're very interested in what happens in the in the underwater or sea domain if you will subsurface domain so if there are objects that are aviators or air crews are encountering and this air domain and their sensors are are discovering or detecting some of these objects we want to just bring that in to the norm normal process that we have for identifying unknown unknowns we want to make sure we have the intelligence requirements that allow us not only to look at that event from the time that it occurs forward but maybe retrospectively we want to go back and see if we can get to the left of that event to say was there some developmental program that we to get to your technical surprise issue sir that we should have known about and if so how

30:47 do we put that intelligence requirement in place to ensure that we are following an adversarial development or any other development that may be out there so that's what we we want to do in terms of normalizing this and bringing it into the normal process of how we identify unknown unknowns so you mentioned Fidelity and I think it's important to talk about the relationship from the Navy is the lead Agency on this how do you interact with space Force Air Force to create that degree of fidelity we're talking about the sensors and so on and I guess where I have some concerns that many of the images that we see commonly in this committee and even in open source the resolution and the clarity that would allow a robust technical intelligence analysis is challenging so is amsoc prepared to address the quality and quantity of data collected on UAP to advance intelligence collection and do you have the adequate sensors you need to collect that high quality data one of

31:48 the lines of effort that we have is looking at our sensor capabilities and to understand whether or not as the video showed that the Mr Bray displayed sometimes it's very fleeting data that we have on some of these objects and and we want to make sure that one our systems are calibrated to actually be able to collect on the objects you know our sensors today or they're calibrated for specific things we want to make sure to calibrate it for things of this nature things of this size things of this velocity if I can use that term we want to make sure that once we have that that that data is stored in some standardized method that we can then extract and that we can feed into our system real time so we do not like want this to take some uh prolonged period of time for us to get that data but our goal is absolutely to have that High Fidelity information that we get from all sensors and we want to be able to integrate that with what we may have off a ground-based sensor so whatever you may have on a platform whatever you may have on the ground whatever you may have

32:48 from other sensors that we may have in different domains we want to be able to integrate that all and get this integrated picture as we would as I said with any other unidentified objects or things that we are tracking as a part of our normal intelligence responsibilities thank you last question Mr Bray if you would uh I'm a Navy pilot I've encountered a UAP walk me through the reporting protocol um once I see something that I think needs reported uh the first thing that The Aviator would do after landing is a part of their normal debriefing is they would contact their intelligence officer their intelligence officer would then walk them through first filing a first actually data preservation to to ensure that that whatever sensor data may be on the aircraft that we preserve that so that it's available for for later analysis second they would actually fill out a uh a form that that includes details like where they were operating altitudes their operating speeds what

33:48 they observed whatever sense of data sensor data they may have recorded from that and then that report is filed it goes two places one it goes through through the operational uh chain of commands so that operational units are aware of what what's being observed and also to the UAP task force so that they can take that data database it and quite often have individual from the task force contact The Aviator and ask them additional questions if there were things that weren't clear in the in the report that then goes into a um into a database where we Bend compare it with other observations that we have again comparing for locations comparing for altitude speeds shapes if any rfe missions were detected from the platform all of that so that we can try to reach some conclusions on that thank you yield gentlemen yields back chairmanship thanks chairman Mr bright can you rerun

34:51 that first image it looked like it was outside of a plane window and if you wouldn't mind going up to the screen and tell us what we're what we're not that you can necessarily tell us what we're saying but right explain what we should be looking at in that first image absolutely and Alexi what I'll ask is if you can stop it at a certain point and are we looking outside of a civilian aircraft window is that what we're looking at

35:57 it's a great shows how difficult the analysis is go to school farther forward literally about one frame here the Miracle occupation that passes right through here

36:57 is that it right there can you point to the screen again what we're supposed to be looking at it right okay if you could stop that

38:11 everyone will see coming up right here spherical object right here soon file window uh right in this area right there you see that part right there again going by I think we're having a hard time stopping at the right smoke okay so as you can see it's difficult and I think the hard case you're here so um the laptop we're working with is not as easy for uh stopping that video we'll describe what what we have seen in that uh what are we observing uh what you see here uh is um uh aircraft that is uh operating in a uh in a U.S Navy uh training range that has observed a

39:11 spherical object uh in that area and as they fly by it they take a video you see a um it looks uh reflective in this video somewhat reflective uh and it quickly passes by uh the cockpit of the uh of the aircraft and is this one of the phenomena that we can't explain I do not have an explanation for what this this specific uh object is and is this one of the situations where it is that's that's the object that we're looking at right there thank you um and is this a situation where it was observed by the pilot and it was also recorded by the aircraft's instruments uh we'll talk about the multi-sensor part uh in a later session but in this case uh we have at least um in in the Director of National Intelligence uh 2021 unclassified report

40:12 the odni reported 144 uaps between 2004 and 2021 80 percent of which were recorded on multiple um and I take it with respect to some of you had the pilot a pilot seeing them if it was observed by a pilot and you had multiple instruments recording it so you really have three sensors the human sensor and two uh technical uh sensors detecting the object is that for them for the majority of uh uh incidents that we had in the uh last year's report uh the majority had multi-sensor data uh when I talk about the 400 reports that we have now uh that number will certainly go down because a lot of those uh new reports that we have are actually historic reports that are narrative based so that percentage will go down just as a factor of uh the fact that the that the destigmatization has resulted in more narrative reports and that's the

41:12 object we're looking at right there now that's it right there okay last year's report also said that of those 144 18 of them reportedly appeared to exhibit unusual flight characteristics appear to demonstrate advanced and some of them appeared to remain stationary in winds Aloft move against the wind maneuver abruptly or move at considerable Speed without discernible means of propulsion um that's pretty intriguing uh uh and and if you're able to answer this in this setting are we aware of any uh foreign adversary capable of moving objects uh without any discernible means of I think I would without discernible means of propulsion I would say that uh we're not aware of any adversary that can move an object without discernible

42:13 means of propulsion uh the question then becomes in many of these cases where we don't have a discernible mean of propulsion in the data that we have in some cases there is likely sensor artifacts that that may be hiding some of that there's certainly some degree of of something that looks like signature management that we have seen from some of these but I would I would caution I would simply say that there are a number of of events in which we do not have an explanation in which Then There are a small Handful in which there are flight characteristics or signature management that we can't explain with the data that we have we'll continue those are obviously the ones that are of most interest to us earlier when we asked about how you avoid technology logical surprise the biggest way you avoid technological Surprises by collecting this type of data and by importantly calibrating the assumptions that you go

43:14 into with how you do that analysis I'll tell you within the UAP task force we have one basic assumption and that is that generally speaking generally speaking our sensors operate as designed and we make that assumption because many times these are multi-sensor collections we make no assumptions about the origin of this or that there may or may not be some sort of technology that we don't understand that's I think the key to avoiding technological Surprises by calibrating those assumptions and finally with respect to the second two videos showing the small triangles the hypothesis is that those are commercial drones that because of the use of night vision goggles of pure electrangles is that the operating assessment some type of drone some type of unmanned aerial system and it is simply that that light source resolves itself through the um through the night vision goggles onto the SLR camera as a

44:16 triangle and have we in order to prove that hypothesis flown a drone and observed it with that same technology to see whether we can reproduce the effect UAP task force is aware of studies that have done that uh thank you Mr chairman I yield back the gentleman yields back Dr winstrup thank you Mr chairman thank you all for being here um my first question is throughout this process where there's been sightings have the sightings been stationary or have they always been cited from a moving object from a plane or a ship that may be have these reports ever come from a stationary object being observed in the the UAP task force does have reports from stationary from state reports from a stationary Observer there's a difference in observing something when

45:16 you're moving as well it's physics right is that if I asked that question are we capable or have we made any breakthroughs or anyone made any breakthroughs to be able to cite something and make some determination at all of its composition whether it's a solid or a gas do is there any such capability from not asking what I've just right from some of the returns I mean it's clear that uh that the majority well it's clear that many of the observations we have are physical objects uh from the the sensor data that we have well gas is physical is a physical object it can be and so and you see where I'm going with this I'm trying to determine what it is we're looking at so if we can decide if something is a solid or a gas and and if there have been any conclusion on its capabilities like its capabilities of of movement uh of turning uh going you know 180 degrees or

46:19 90 degree turn anything along that line that we've been able to determine um within the and again I should point out that uh you know that there is not a single explanation for UAP they make up there are a lot of different things uh that that are unidentified basically we really don't know much on that that's that's all I'm trying to get it we and I'm pleased that you have protocol right now for our military but are there any non-military reports coming forward of similar events or is it all coming from military the UAP task force has a very good working relationship with the FAA they have very good working relationship with other parts of the US government so that we can ingest reports from do we have any reports non-military yes thank you that's that's my question um and do we need to put out protocol for civilians that may be in that Arena like through FAA do you think that would be appropriate and helpful I think standardize the reporting without a doubt is key to helping us get to the to

47:20 ascertain what some of these are I think it would be important as well do we um there are other people besides the U.S that have had these experiences and reported them is that correct there are that's correct uh is it all of our allies or is it allies and adversaries what have we learned publicly so some of that I think sir will save for closed well that goes my next question publicly have others made anything which would not have to be considered closed so I don't want you to answer what they've said necessarily allies have uh have seen these China has established its own version of a UAP task force so clearly a number of countries have observations of uh of things in the airspace that they can't identify and uh do we share data with some with all are they sharing with us we share data with some and some share data with us but not necessarily all that have

48:22 publicly reported something that's and I think that's an important thing and for the other session actually that we we don't discuss that now um because you know obviously something like this can be a national security challenge for us no doubt about it if they're developed by an adversary through some breakthrough technology they can be very disruptive to our military actions or at least serve as a so my caution would be be careful who we share our data with and don't necessarily trust some of the data we may get from someone else and with that I yield back gentlemen yields back Mr Himes thank you Mr chairman one of the objectives of this open hearing is to um try to erode some of the stigma that attaches to in particular our military

49:24 men and women reporting this it's obviously really very serious because should one of our adversaries have developed a technology that we don't know about it we need to know about it yesterday and and obviously uh any sort of stigma that prevents our our military from reporting this data as comprehensively as possible as a national security threat so I really just have two questions in the service of that goal uh the first is the chairman asked that we run that video again most people when they see a video we're all used to seeing things from a car seeing things from a sidewalk very few people have the experience of observing something through night vision goggles at Mach 1.5 so just talk for a minute about if you would uh whichever of you is most appropriate how radically different observation is at high speed and three dimension than it is for most of us who walk around and drive cars um so the first thing I think that's

50:25 important to note about this is there are lots of things when you are moving very fast and an object is between you and a stationary reference point like the ground uh it gives a lot of different Impressions about how quickly uh something is or isn't moving and it actually means that it is a challenge uh especially with narrative-based data to get a lot of information on that that's why the sensor data is so important because things do happen very quickly uh as you see there and sometimes things that happen very quickly something may be moving very slow that aircraft is moving quite fast how fast that object is moving that goes by is probably very so I get I guess my point is that an observation either a visual observation or a a electronic observation infrared or whatever looks radically different than it does to most people um even instruments uh instruments are on gimbals and that sort of thing so that creates a very unusual uh view to

51:28 again those of us who are used to seeing things on in two Dimensions largely and second question um I think Mr Bray you said something that I want to unpack a little bit uh uh a number of these uaps you said we can't again in the service of sort of reducing uh speculation and conspiracy theories we can't explain can range from a visual observation that was distant on a foggy night we don't know what it is to we've found an organic material that we can identify right those are radically different world worlds So when you say we can't explain give the public a little bit better sense of where on that spectrum of we can't explain we are are we holding materials organic or inorganic that we don't know about are we you know picking up emanations that are something other than light or infrared that could be deemed to be Communications give us a sense for what you mean when you say we can't explain

52:28 sure when I say uh we can't explain I I mean exactly as you described there that there is a lot of information like the video that we showed in which there's simply too little data to to create a reasonable explanation there are a small handful of cases in which we have more data that our analysis simply hasn't been able to uh to fully pull together a picture of what happened um the um and those are the cases where we talk about where we see some indications of flight characteristics or signature management that are are not what we had expected when it comes to material that we have we have no material we have detected no emanations within the UAP task force that that is that would suggest it's anything non-terrestrial uh in the origin so there's um when I say unexplained I mean everything from two little too little data to we simply the data that we have doesn't point us towards an explanation but we'll go wherever the data takes us

53:28 again we've made no assumptions about what this is or isn't we're committed to understanding these and so we'll go wherever that data takes us thank you that's that's very helpful and so I think it Bears emphasis when you say we can't explain everything that you can't explain is in a bucket called Data is that correct and that would mean data collected by sensors visual observations everything that we can't explain quote unquote is in a bucket called data right a narrative report uh from uh from the early 2000s if it just had a little bit of information on it would be in our database and it would be unresolved I would add to that it's insufficient data I mean that's one of the challenges we have insufficient data either on the event itself the object itself or insufficient data or plug-in with some other organization or agency that may have had something in that space at that time so it's a data issue that we're that we're facing in many of these instances congressmen understood thank you very much Shield back

54:28 gentleman yields back Mr Gallagher thank you Mr chairman thank you for allowing me to join this hearing um I really appreciate the witness's um Mr Moultrie as the chairman uh mentioned uh DOD had an initiative to study UFOs in the 1960s called Project Blue Book it's also been well reported in our briefing and in other places that we have more have more recent projects specifically atip could you describe any other initiatives that the dod or DOD contractors have managed after Project Blue Book ended and prior to atip beginning did anything also predate Project Blue Book so I I can't speak to what may have predated Project Blue Book I mean the course has Roswell and all these other things that people have talked about over the years I'm familiar with blue book I'm familiar with uh with atip I haven't seen other documented studies that have been done by DOD in that so you're not aware of anything in between Project Blue Book and atip I'm

55:30 not aware of anything that's uh official that was done in between those two it hasn't been uh brought to my attention Okay uh additionally are you aware of any other DOD or DOD contract programs focused on uaps from a technological engineering perspective and by that I mean are you aware of any technology initiatives focused on this topic other than initiatives focused on the individual case investigations I'm not aware of any contractual programs that are focused on uh any anything related to this other than what we are doing in the Navy task force and what we're about to launch in terms of our effort same question for you Mr Bray that same answer not aware of anything outside what we are doing in the UAP task force so just to confirm you're not aware of any technology or engineering resources that have been focused on these efforts besides what we've mentioned today once again I'll say no contractual or programmatic efforts that are involved the reason why I I qualify yeah

56:32 let me qualify it that way I can't speak to what people may be looking at in the department somebody says I'm looking at something I'm looking at something that may be unidentified and I can't speak to that speak to official programs that we have on the record it's also been reported that there have been UAP observed and interacting with and flying over sensitive military facilities particularly not just ranges but uh some facilities housing our strategic nuclear forces one such incident allegedly occurred uh uh at Malmstrom Air Force Base in which 10 of our nuclear icbms were rendered inoperable at the same time a glowing red orb was observed overhead I'm not commenting on the accuracy of this I'm simply asking you whether you're aware of it and whether you have any comment on the accuracy of that report let me pass that to Mr Brave you've been looking at the uaps over the last three years that data is not within the Holdings of the UAP task force okay but are you aware of the the report or that the data exists somewhere I have uh I have heard stories I have not seen the official data on that so

57:33 you've just seen informal stories no official assessment that you've done or exists within DOD that you're aware of regarding the Malmstrom incident all I can speak to is you know what's within my cognizance the UAP task force and we have not looked at that incident well I miss a pretty high profile incident uh I don't claim to be an expert on this but that's out there in The Ether you're you're the guys investigating it I mean if who else is doing it if something was officially brought to our attention we would look at it there are many things that are out there in The Ether that aren't officially brought to our attention how would it have to be officially brought to you I'm bringing it to your team this is pretty official sure so we'll go back and take a look at it but generally there is some um authoritative figure that says there is an in synthetic curve we'd like you to look at this uh but in terms of just tracking what may be in the media that says that something occurred at this time at this place uh they're probably a lot of leads and we would have to follow up on I don't think we're resource to do that right now well I don't claim to be an authoritative figure but for what

58:34 it's worth I would like you to look in into it and for another reason you could dismiss it and say this is not worth wasting resources on um and then finally are you aware of a document that appeared around 2019 uh sometimes called the Admiral Wilson memo or ew notes memo this is a document in which again I'm not commenting on the veracity I was hoping you would help me with that in which the former head of Dia claims to have had a conversation with the doctor Eric Wilson uh and claims to have uh sort of been made aware of certain contractors or DOD programs um that he tried to get Fuller access to and was denied access to um so you're not aware of that I'm out where Congressman uh in my 10 seconds remaining then I guess I just would ask Mr chairman unanimous consent to enter that memo into the record without objection thank you Mr chairman appreciate it to Christian Worthy thank you Mr chair and thank you to both

59:35 of you for appearing today and for your public service first question is uh there have been no collisions between any U.S Assets in one of these uaps we have not had a collision we've had at least 11 near misses though maybe we'll talk about those 11 near misses or any place where there's close I assume or tell me if I'm wrong there's been no attempt there's no Communications or any kind of communication signals that emanate from those objects that we've detected that's correct and have we attempted to communicate with those objects so we don't we don't even put out a alert saying you know U.S identity you know identify yourself you are you know within our flight path or something like that we haven't said

1:00:35 anything like that we've not put anything out like that generally speaking uh what you know for example in the video that we showed earlier uh it appears to be something that is uh you know unmanned uh appears to be something that uh may or may not be in controlled flight uh and so we've not attempted any communication uh with okay so and I assume we've never discharged any armaments against a UAP correct that's correct um how about wreckage have we come across any wreckage of any kind of object that has now been examined by you the UAP task force doesn't have any wreckage that isn't explainable that isn't consistent with being of terrestrial origin do we have any sensors underwater to detect on submerged uaps anything that is in the ocean or in the Seas so I

1:01:37 think that would be more appropriately addressed in closed sessions sir okay I think one of the biggest questions that uh that that I have is um we say with a lot of probability we say they quote unquote probably do represent physical objects close quote when we say probably is that because we cannot conclusively say that they are physical objects in the task force uh report uh when when I say probably uh represent physical objects most of them represent physical objects there could be some that are more of a uh of a meteorological phenomena something like that that may be a physical object in the in the sense that most people think of something you go up and touch but the ones where you say most of them represent physical objects can you say that they are definitely like with 100 certainty that they are physical objects

1:02:38 I can say was certainly that a number of these are physical objects okay so there we can't rule out that some of them may not be physical objects so some uh certainly could be a central anomaly uh or something like that some could be now how about uh with regard to uaps we've talked about uaps on training areas but um there's some sensor bias I would think we we put sensors in training um how about with regards to non-training areas do we track what's an open source and what civilians and others have tracked and have we found similarities to what they've observed in terms of uaps and non-training areas to the ones that are in training areas dop task force has uh worked very hard to to make sure the data set that we're working with is a is a data set that we have very good control over that data so we have some Partnerships with FAA so

1:03:38 that we get some of that so we get that reporting in um but if it comes to just you know open source reports or someone says that they saw something that generally does not make it into our database so basically it sounds like we have a good partnership with FAA but apart from FAA we don't have Partnerships with other agencies or other entities that might be tracking so that we could enlarge our data set to make comparison so we will so that's the goal of this next effort will be to expand that relationship with the uh the rest of government in the interagency so we can understand what they're seeing what we're seeing we can correlate on each other's Holdings because I think resolve this sorry to interrupt but I think that we're we might have a bias right now going on with regards to just reporting on uaps being in training areas when we don't really track what's happening elsewhere last question have our encounters with uaps alter the development of our either our offense or offensive or defensive capabilities or even our sensor capabilities

1:04:39 we'll take that for the closed session okay great thank you Mr lahood thank you Mr chairman and I want to thank the witnesses for being here today obviously this topic of uaps has attracted a lot of interest in people that are um curious about uh this this hearing as we talk about um and I would say there's a lot of what I would call amateur interest groups that are involved in the UAP field Mike my question is when there are unsubstantiated claims or manufactured claims of uaps or kind of false information that's put out there uh what are the consequences for people that are involved with that or groups that are involved with that so one of the concerns that we have is that there are a lot of individuals and groups that are are

1:05:41 putting information out there that that could be considered to be somewhat self-serving we're trying to do what's in the what's in the best interest of one the Department of Defense and then two what's in the best interest of the public to ensure that we can put factual based information back into the mainstream and back into the bloodstream of the reporting uh media that we have so people understand what's there it's important because we are attempting um as this hearing as has drawn out to understand one what may just be natural phenomenon to what may be censor phenomenology or things that were happening with sensors 3 what may be legitimate counterintelligence threats to places that we have or bases or installations or security threats to our platforms and anything that diverts us off of what we have with the resources that have been allocated to us send us off in these spurious chases and hunts

1:06:42 that are just not helpful and they also helped whether they also contribute to the undermining of the confidence that the Congress and the American people have that we are trying to get to the root cause of what's Happening Here report on that and then feed that back into our national security apparatus so we are able to protect the American people and our allies so it is harmful it is hurtful but hopefully if we get more information out there we'll start to lessen the impact of some of those spurious reports so just taking that a step further so though that misinformation false narratives manufactured so what are the consequences are there legal consequences are there examples that you can give us where people have been held accountable by this misinformation or disinformation I can't give you you know any examples where somebody's been legally held liable for putting something out there but well I guess what's the deterrent from people engaging in this activity I don't I don't know I I don't have that answer I that's something that uh you

1:07:43 know welcome the dialogue with Congress to talk about that with the members who uh you know help legislate those laws and say what should be the uh the legal ramifications that we could use to potentially hold individuals accountable whether it be citizens or information that might be injected into um our media by other uh other forces or other countries if you will and in terms of dods and uh you know review and Analysis in this field I mean is there is there a standard in place when it comes to uaps I mean is there any guidance you look to that's codified in law or otherwise within DOD that that kind of sets out the standards for uaps and and what to look for I think that's part of what the the group that we're standing up now will be charted to do we're actually from my organization we'll be looking at policy and standards that we have to uh to uh come to you and work with you to actually put in place and uh promulgate across our government thank you I yield back gentlemen yields back Mr Welch

1:08:45 uh thank you amid a file I made a follow-on the the line of questions from Mr lahood uh gentlemen what seems incredibly difficult for you is that there's two almost competing but different uh narratives one is it's the no one knows whether there's extra life it's a big universe and it would be pretty presumptuous to have a hard and fast conclusion and then if there is uh it's not beyond the realm of possibility that there is some exploration coming here uh and that underlies a lot of the reports you get I think Mr lahood was asking about that people think there must be extraterrestrial life and it's not at all Beyond The Pale that there would be a visit here on the other hand as a DOD you have the responsibility to make sure that our national security is protected and that if there are surveillance drones or active drones that can disable our systems that has to be analyzed has to be stopped so how do

1:09:48 you divide the these how do you separate your responsibilities where you get all these reports from folks who may be in good faith maybe not believe that you should be investigating every possible report of a extraterrestrial incident I'll start with you Mr Moultrie sure indeed congressman and thank you for the um it's important that we um as a part of this effort really uh build out the relationship that we have with others including NASA and for the reasons that you just pointed out so there are elements in our government that are engaged in uh looking for life in other places and they have been doing that for decades right they've been searching for us to trust your life there are astral biologists who have been doing this too we're a part of that same government and so our goal is not

1:10:48 potentially cover up something if we were to find something it's to understand what may be out there examine what what it may mean for us if there are any from a defense perspective any national security implications or ramifications but then the work with organizations as appropriate if it's a weather phenomenology with Noah if it's a potential for extraterrestrial life or indication of external to life with someone like NASA the transparency actually is very important completely for public uh consumption completely but we're going to have a classified briefing and without going into the details uh of What kinds of secrets that we can't share here uh what is it what are we protecting I don't know if you can answer this question in this open Forum but in fact uh your perception of what it is we have to quote so I think right now what's really important for us to protect is uh how we

1:11:50 know certain things so there are a lot of things that we know whether it be the thinking of other leaders around the world the weapon systems are being developed or how we detect things that may be threats to us many of those things are the result of some of our most sensitive sources and methods and we'll use those things not just for this effort but those same sources and methods are used to help protect us from adversaries and from others who might mean to do us harm there aren't separate UAP sensors it's not a separate UAP processing computer it is not a separate UAP dissemination chain or whatever so it's the same processes it's the same system that we have that helps us do all that we need to protect that because this is something that that we're looking at but we're sure there's going to be other things that we'll look at in the future that will need those same sensors only those same sources of methods to help us do so so we're protecting the fact of the the that this nation has developed capabilities that enable us to know what may be threats to

1:12:51 us and to counter those threats before they become something of a a national issue thank you very much I want to thank both you Mr Bray and you Mr Moultrie for your parents today I yield gentleman yields back gentlemen Beyond videos is there a range of other information that the executive branch has that would be valuable to the American people while protecting sources and methods obviously the details of individual encounters including the time place and details of an encounter and does the aim saw have a clear and repeatable process for considering public release as part of the process chairman Carson the um do you commit to building that process if it's not in place the UAP task force uh you know the the security classification guide that the UAP task force has been operating under that I approved um really was meant to protect those sources and methods and meant to protect

1:13:52 any knowledge that an adversary intelligence uh entity May gain from under from understanding what we're tracking how we track it or um when we're tracking it or if we're not and so that has been an important piece in the balance between transparency and preserving our warfighting advantage because the U.S military does train as it would fight um what I uh will commit to is at least for that material that's under my authority as the deputy director of Naval intelligence um for uh information that we have when it does not involve sources and methods uh or and when we can with a reasonable uh degree of confidence determine that it does not pose a foreign intelligence or national security threat and it's within my authority to do so I commit to declassifying that so I I believe very much in the transparency of this and we work very hard to balance that with our

1:14:53 national security needs and I'll just add Congressman just over the last three four months I think that the the intelligence community and the National Defense apparatus have disclosed more information on various events than it has and and probably see the the previous 10 years you have our commitment to work closely with the Director of National Intelligence and others in the declassification and downgrading of Intel apparatus to ensure that we can get whatever information that we can out to the American people and to the public greatly appreciate it sir ranking member Crawford thank you Mr chairman um representative stefanik is in route I believe just real quickly but in the interim if I could if you'll indulge me I just have one a couple of real small questions one is uh do we have an example can you cite a specific example of an object that can't be explained as having been human made or natural

1:15:55 I mean the the um the example that that I would say that is still unresolved that I think everyone understands quite well is the 2004 uh incident from from Nimitz we have data on that and that simply remains unresolved does not mean it resolves to being something right that is easily explainable or uh difficulty or well obviously it resolved being something that is difficult to explain but I I can't point to something that definitively was not man-made but I can point to a number of examples in which remain unresolved gotcha with regard to videos that have appeared in open source channels for example the Tic Tac video does aimsog maintain control of videos and how do you prevent leaks of potentially classified videos or other material so the aims log as we established an organization we will have a uh a process for classified and compartmented holdings and we will find a way of getting positive control over those so

1:16:56 we have uh our sensitive access programs and special access programs that allow us to put we call saps around things and then there's controlled access programs that allow us to put caps around things so we'll have that in place our goal will be ensuring that we're sharing that with the appropriate analysts and the appropriate exploiters if you will who can look at that data too what we don't want to do is bring something into a DOD database or a DOD holding and then have so many Rapids around it's not available to those who really need to look at it and to exploit it and that's one of the reasons that we're establishing relationships with the interagency with the IC and others to be able to do that sir but we will do our best to maintain positive control over the materials that we have within our Holdings thank you I think it was chairman just going back to the 2021 report um you know under the category of UAP appear to demonstrate advanced technology uh those 18 uh incidents uh

1:17:57 in which uh some of the UAP appeared to remain stationary wins Aloft move against the wind maneuver abruptly or move at considerable Speed without discernible means of propulsion it goes on to say in a small number of cases military aircraft systems processed radio frequency energy associated with UAP sightings um I couldn't tell from that whether that small number of cases was a part of the subset of 18 that is among the 18 which appeared to move with unusual pattern or flight characteristics to some of those also emit radio frequency energy I would have to check with our UAP task force on that I I believe without getting into specifics that we can do in the in the closed session uh at least some that we have detected RF emissions from were not behaving oddly otherwise

1:18:58 uh and and the significance of uh measuring that radio frequency energy is what that we suspect that this was a some form of aircraft in which there were radio Transmissions the biggest thing that you're looking for there is any indication of uh of an effort to jam uh whatever sensors that we may have looking at it but that would also also add to that that radio frequency as you know congressman is used to control uh various platforms too so the fact of uh emanation is coming off of any platform whether it be a UAV or another platform could be radio frequency activity related to that entity transmitting out or something transmitting to that platform and of course we have a sensitivity with our Airborne platforms are picking it up which is one of the reasons that we try to prevent people from using their cell phones on airplanes and things like that it's very sensitive to RF emanation so

1:19:58 that's a part of what we'll be looking at in the aim song what is this is this something that we can collect on and can we start to characterize the signaling environment around the emanations that may be coming off of some of these uaps so that that energy then um that was recorded could be either an effort to jam or it could be an effort to control a UAV or any other communication with that uh craft I would say that's accurate right thank you Mr chairman thank you chairman um as the odni report makes clear one possible explanation for uaps is that we are detecting U.S aircraft either secret air programs or even test prototypes I won't ask you in this setting obviously to describe any secret DOD programs that said I do want to make sure the U.S government isn't chasing its own tail firstly do you have a clear and

1:21:00 repeatable process to check with compartmented programs about whether a UAP siding is attributable to a U.S aircraft secondly do does the Ames hog staff have the clearances and read-ons that they need to investigate all of these incidents and and and thirdly when your staff cannot be read on uh are your questions to those who are read on even being answered so I'll start and then I'll pass that to uh to Mr Bray so we're very conscious of the potential Blue on Blue issue or U.S on U.S and so we've established relationships with organizations and entities that that are potentially flying or developing platforms for their own interests if you will and our goal is to continue and we have a repeatable process I think we've had that process for some time to deconflict uh activities that we may have to ensure that we are not

1:22:01 potentially reporting on something that may be a developmental platform or a U.S operational platform that is performing either testing or performing a mission so we will have that in place we've already had those discussions with organizations and entities we want to ensure that we're protecting their equities we want to ensure that we're protecting their sources and methods well also getting at what we have here we want to be able to deconflict those absolutely the UAP task force has uh had a a process in place to work with other elements of Department of Defense and other elements of the government to ensure that uh that there's an uh as simple a way as possible to deconflict those and when we reference that in the in the report uh I should say that we were simply accounting for the fact that there could possibly be one or two uh data points that had that had leaked through but we were quite confident that was not the explanation um how how how are you all liaisoning

1:23:04 space command specifically how are you partnering with the parts of the U.S base command responsible for space domain awareness and how if at all are you partnering with the space force to analyze uaps uh the UAP task force uh has um uh has a very good relationship with space force as it does with the rest of the Department of Defense we have pulled analysts in from space force to ensure that uh that we're availing ourselves of that expertise as well as um uh any um any other material they may have that would be helpful and the congressman as you know um uh space force and the space command they have responsibility for space domain awareness so what we've done we coordinated with uh with space force we coordinated with their J2 and she is on board in terms of helping us plug into what they have and for us to have this interactive exchange of

1:24:05 information and data and we're doing that with all the services just not just with space force or space commitment thank you sir ranking member any additional questions all right chairman Schiff all right uh with that I want to thank you all for for taking the time out I also want to thank my colleagues on both sides of the aisle for participating in this very historical and important hearing I think it's one of the few times we can demonstrate some degree of bipartisanship around uaps and UFOs so I love it appreciate it thank you and we will see you all we will recess this hearing for the moment and return in a closed session at noon thank you

1:27:41 two miles house lawmakers just wrapping up this hearing looking at a pentagon report on U.S military sightings of UFOs and if you missed any part of this hearing we'll re-air it tonight at nine Eastern right here on C-Span too