Citizen Hearing 2013: Pilots & Aviation Experts

0:10 thank you very much i do hereby affirm that i will tell the truth that i will tell the truth and nothing but the truth to this committee today to this committee today thank you very much i'm i'm delighted that this first panel uh includes people that have been in airplanes as pilots flying those they've also been involved as controllers and i understand faa administration is represented here as someone from that i'd also like to acknowledge a gentleman on this panel flown more combat missions for the united states air force than any other person in the history of the united states and his record is double the man's in second place and that's lieutenant colonel richard french

1:15 so you've been sworn in we'll start with testimony of john callahan if i could just quickly ask mr buckman time limits that have been determined for this uh panel ten minutes for opening statements and then we'll divide the remaining time among them how much time per question depends on if they keep to their ten minutes well they're hey i've got gravel yeah i'll keep to it and then it'll be roughly a 10-minute q a session for each other and then they're definitely going to keep to it uh john calhoun you can begin all right i don't know what i can do in 10 minutes but i'll do the best i can uh apparently you guys already have a copy of what i'm going to say i'll just hit the highlights i was the division chief of the accents evaluations and investigation division in the faa in washington dc from 1981 to 1988 i was the first man selected for that position and we created that position

2:15 it came about after the air traffic control strike faa had no quality control in the system until the strike and then i was selected for that position and it turned out to be a division with five branches during this time i was involved in investigation of an extraordinary event and was asked not to talk about it since retiring i decided the public had a right for this information and that they could handle it nothing's happened to me as a result of discussing this out in public in early january of 1987 i received a call from the air traffic facility out in alaska it was the region and they wanted to know what to tell the media that apparently the uh the office was of media they had them in the hall and every time they went out uh to do anything the mediator was sticking the microphone on their face and they wanted to know what to tell him so i said tell him about what he says

3:17 about the ufo and the next one was what ufo we had established a procedure that if anything newsworthy happened in the faa we in our division were to know right away so we could defend the united states government i said what ufo and he says oh a couple weeks ago is what he told me it was really a couple months ago they had a ufo chase of 747 across the alaskan skies for some 31 minutes but like who believes in and somehow the media heard that this was going on and now they're out there in the halls and he didn't know what to do they couldn't do their job and he was kind of so i gave them our official answer tell them it's under investigation and once you tell them that they kind of drift away and they're all gone then i said i want you to pack up all that data we have all the computer data and in those days when we talk about computer data and

4:17 disk we're talking about those disks that were like a 78 record player and that looked like a pie case that they have in the delis there'd be 10 or 12 of these things inside that was the disc that we're talking about not these little things you carry around with here today so i said i want all that stuff i want the voice tapes i want everything sent to the faa tech center by tomorrow morning you put them on the red-eye flight and we're going to go down to the tech center and look at what you have and the tech center is where they create the software programs for the faa 548 facilities there were at the time i used to run that automation department had 176 people working for me they also had a program called uh playback or they had another name to forget it right now anyway you could go in into the into the facility at the tech and you could walk into one of the control rooms and you could say i want this position to be set up

5:19 exactly like the position in alaska i want to stand over here and look at the radar and see what the controller seeing i want the voice tapes to come out of the speaker above and i want them synchronized with what we're looking at so when the man says he's over alaska i want the radar to say he's over alaska and i want to see what the what was going on i want to hear what was going well they played it for me and toward the end while we're looking at it they would shut the program off so i said i want you to play it again but don't shut the program off until i tell you to shut it off and i i had bought a uh a camera with me a uh well they call these cameras here the ones that play these things here anyway i took a a video of it uh the second time they played it and it was the first time i really used the camera and it was a little shaky if you ever get to look at it but it shows you everything that was on the screen

6:20 and as they're playing the second one they shut it off again toward the end and i finally said that there must be something wrong with our communications i didn't come from the south i said i want you to leave it on until i say shut it off and they were a little hesitant they didn't want to do that and i finally told the engineer that i said you either do it i tell you or tomorrow you're going to have to find another job so they let it play well toward the end the controllers had taken a united and they asked him if they could delay his uh his arrival time and have him check this uh 747 that was coming southbound so they vectored him over to the 747 he's about 2 000 feet beneath them and the united says it's a beautiful airplane the moon behind him it looks good he says it's so clear up here you can see until next tuesday and then he passed by well after he passed by that target that had been chasing at 747 turned around and started

7:21 following the united as he went down into alaska now when the japanese pilot first come on the frequency for you guys that are familiar with radar or how the military or the controls work when he first come on the frequency for the controller the first words out of his mouth was do you have traffic for me and when a controller hears these words it means doom because right away he forgot something he's got somebody else up there that shouldn't and why would a pilot ask if we had and he looked at his scope and he says negative there's no traffic in your area and the japanese pilot says oh yeah there's traffic out here and it's at 12 o'clock in about eight miles he's telling them well the next thing the controller says is can you tell me what type is can you make out the type of aircraft any markings on the in the plane that we can we can find out who it is these think it's a military aircraft and the japanese pilot says there's no markings it's a

8:22 it's as big as four aircraft carriers it has yellow and white lights around the center and it's big and he was a little bit worried well this machine followed him down for 31 minutes halfway through his flight he makes a 360 degree turn now when i say he makes it he doesn't do anything unless the faa says you can do this so they told him if you want to deviate you want to change your altitude let us know when he changes altitude a couple times makes a and this ufo stayed with them all the scared the pants off them uh i don't know how much more time i got anyway when i get down about a minute and a half to two minutes okay so i shoot back to the faa center and administrator at the time was admiral england i know if you guys knew everything and i got there about quarter five because i wanted to go home with my wife and he heard i was in the building so he calls me up and he says give me a five minute briefing on what you're saying

9:23 so i gave him the what i'm telling you guys here and they want to know if that video i took would play on his tv and i said i guess so the book says it can so i plugged it in there and after a few minutes of watching the video he calls of the aid over and he says go tell kennedy i'm going to be a few minutes so he's watching it's a little bit more and then he finally calls the eight over and says go cancel the rest of my my appointments tonight we'll reschedule for sometime next week he says i have to go see the president and we're talking about reagan so when he get all done he says don't talk to anybody i'll get back with you and i'll tell you what to do i'm on my way to see reagan next morning i came to work and i got a call from some guy who said he was at the c.i.a he wanted to talk about a ufo i said were you talking to the wrong guy i don't know anything about ufos he says well the one that happened over alaska i said you probably want to talk to the admiral i don't know what you're talking about a few minutes later the admiral calls down and says i've stopped a briefing for you tomorrow at 10 o'clock or 9 o'clock whatever it

10:24 was in the round room he says the president's scientific staff is coming over some cia guys will be there i think he said three matter of fact and some grunts will be coming along with them he says your task is to hand this stuff off to them when they leave here they have to take this with them because the faa does not control ufos now i showed them all this stuff when they got about 45 seconds okay when they got all done one of the scientists come out and said they had three or four questions they wanted to know the speed of the antenna the frequency of the antenna the logarithm for the height finding equipment and the people i brought with me just happened to be experts and they answered all the questions when they get done the cia guy standing next to me says to the people this event pointing to the big screen they have in the room this event never happened we were never here we're confiscating all this data and

11:26 you're all sworn to secrecy scared the pants off of them i had 22 people in the air they were leaving the room right away don't know what's going to happen so i said to this guy well what do you think it was i'm thinking at the time it's the south bomber he says oh he says it's a ufo look at these guys they're drooling they can't wait to get their hands on all this data we had boxes and boxes in those days of can't wait to get their hands on that stuff i says that right he says yeah this is the first time they ever had more than a moment of radar data to look at now the big key was the word he had said this is the first time they ever had more than a minute or so of radar data and now we've got 31 minutes thank you okay yeah got a major uh filer if you could yes go ahead i'm a retired air force major 5000 flying hours and i'm currently the regional director of the mutual ufo

12:27 which is studying this phenomenon and editor of the filer's files when i was flying for the air force 420th air refueling squadron stationed at raf skalthorpe in england in january of 62 we were in orbit for refueling fighter aircraft over the north sea at about 30 000 feet in our kb50j tanker just after sunset on a clear night london control excitedly called us and notified us that they had an unidentified object hovering on their radar near stonehenge we were asked if we were willing to intercept the unidentified craft and our refueling mission had just so we quickly agreed to chase their ufo

13:27 we were given an intercept heading and started to dive toward the ufo it was really an exciting situation next then we were to go towards uh which is over the center of england next london control was diverting all aircraft out of our way so that we could have a clear path for the intercept then we realized we were above our red speed on the aircraft and had to pull back on the power and london control started giving us to the homebrewing ufo next it was uh some 60 miles ahead and then 40 and so on and as we got closer we got the radar going on our aircraft and picked up the hovering ufo in the distance about 30

14:28 it was exceptionally large radar return and we're just judging on the size of the radar return it was about equal to the brooklyn bridge or firth of fourth bridge in scotland which is a huge bridge about a mile long it's the biggest radar return that i've ever seen on the aircraft radar and it was sharp and solid as compared to the fuzziness of a rain cloud i felt the craft must be made of steel or some kind of strong metal we were doing about 425 miles per hour as we approach to about 10 miles this gives you an example of how large a radar return it was it was a dark night we could only see a series of dim lights directly ahead this is something you want to look like in the distance suddenly the ufo seemed to come alive and the lights brightened

15:29 immensely and the ufo accelerated in a launch similar to a space shuttle taking lit up the sky and disappeared frankly we saw much brighter lights and a fantastic acceleration it seemed to go straight up just estimating speed like 50 000 miles an 100 times faster than we were moving we asked london control if they had any rocket launches in the area london control seemed as disappointed as we were and the controller said there are no rocket launchers in the thank you for your intercept you are now cleared to return to your mission the incident was recorded in my navigator's log and was mentioned the next day in operations the air force did not seem particularly a few weeks later we were invited to a dining inn with prince philip as a

16:31 and he asked to speak with the air crews that had chased the ufo so apparently london control had told him that we had chase's ufo and we sat down at the table with him and he was very friendly and i essentially told him what i just told you and he indicated that he regularly interviewed the air crews that were chasing ufos either he or his aide would interview and i asked why he president prince philip was personally interested in ufos and he said that uncle the earl monbotten had seen the close up in the in the navy and that obviously he believed his uncle next this gives you some indications of ships that this one was taken over japan

17:34 and if you notice there's a large cylinder but outside the cylinder there's 12 disk craft and this is typically what they do are often called mother ships because they launch these smaller disc shaped craft from them next this picture was taken by nasa over the atlantic ocean and near iceland next and this one was actually a video this is one shot from the video taken over england on burnham on the sea on february 11 2009 next now this is something interesting that i feel or have the theory that the ancient british actually copied the ufos the archaeological are carved in the ground in england

18:37 there's dozens of them and these structures are over a mile long next and this is how they're made they're these ditches are carved out and if you think about the type of energy that it takes to make what a monster is a two mile round section of these ditches the british archaeologists call them curses because they remind them of kind of a race track but i suggest that uh they in fact show that the craft had been there in the ancient times next there's another picture of one the stonehenge curses and as you see i outlined on the ground and this is right in the stonehenge area this is one of the typical disc shaped craft next and they built these huge hills in

19:39 england the question is why were they it happens that the uh the disc shaped aircraft seem to be able to power up by the energy inside the hills and the electrical energy coming down we feel that it's something like the cargo coat in world war ii the natives in the south pacific made shapes of aircraft on the ground and that the british and ancient times may have done the same thing next this is one of the better craft pictures taken in cumberland rhode island on july 3rd 1967 and this was colorized in the windows put in next

20:39 one navy chief petty officer flight engineer with 10 000 hours had seen a ufo and he said that cigar-shaped craft was twice the size of two aircraft carriers next and the object moved east at about 100 and was a huge aircraft a similar one was uh seen by two pilots on two different airlines over the english channel on april 23 2007 next captain ray bauer in his rna aircraft and a blue island pilots had seen these ufos and reported them majors you have a little bit less than a minute left okay here's captain bauer reporting it 2007 next

21:41 and here's a close-up of one taken in just recently any case these spacecraft occasionally roam our skies they're seen by many people by many pilots and air crews and i think they've been here for thousands of years and our made structures on the ground to remind us that they had actually been here i've been interested in ufos ever since and like to dedicate this talk to my two daughters that recently passed away thank you we could next go to mr jim grant yes um i wanted to thank all the uh serious researchers that have been trying to get this information out for years and thanks for you all showing up today and

22:44 my background is i've been a pilot for started taking lessons when i was 10 years old i've been an airline captain for 31 years flying 46 years and have over 32 000 flight hours rated as a captain 747s and most boeing jets and airbus i'm also a helicopter instructor and structuring gliders and balloons and i got interested in this subject in 1962 when i was reaching for a book on flying in a small and a book fell out called flying saucers top secret by major donald kehoe and uh he he was one of the ring leaders in helping get a lot of this information and most of his books are credible uh professional uh people that were you know people that were trained to know what they were saying pilots and

23:45 uh ground observers such and i thought it was science fiction when i first picked it up so that's how i got started in this and it has not been an easy field um unfortunately after all these years it still hasn't changed much i wish it had as far as military or civilian pilots of how they're treated as far as when they see something give you an example of things that are seen but not talked about friend of mine was a flight engineer 747 with an air carrier i was flying for at the time and they were over the and they they had a similar sighting to happened with the japan airlines flight in 1986 but this was in 1980 there was no radar and my friend came up to me later after his trip and he said you won't believe what we saw this thing was bigger than a aircraft carrier and he said we were

24:46 obviously flying a 747 they were heading to to norida they were told to park the aircraft when they got there and then they were debriefed and they're told never to talk about it are many cases like this of pilots coming up to talk to me because they know i've kind uh stuck my neck out more than most pilots because of uh i've been very lucky to make some contacts with different people around the world that should know what they're talking about some of them were astronauts some cosmonauts some generals and i usually don't get into what i've been told and they tell me what they know in closed-door sessions and it's it's almost uh verbatim what i've been told before it's astounding how many people are in the know on this subject and and just you know they're afraid uh and it's not so much i find out

25:47 afraid for losing their retirement and such some of them are but or their status in life but they're more afraid for their their so i'm not going to get in too much into that aspect but what happened to me as far as uh i had a sighting over new 1995. i ironically um i i just finished talking to my first officer about this subject which i had been told sometimes it wasn't a good idea he said i've been flying 25 years i've never seen anything he was ex-military tanker pilot and his lips had barely stopped moving when the cockpit uh it was at dusk so was starting to get the cockpit started almost getting the shade of bluish green i look off the left and uh i i thought the air traffic controllers had mis informed us about any traffic nearby this it looked a lot closer than it was

26:49 it was oval shaped bluish green moving very quickly and they had no radar contact on this military or civilian we were just about 100 miles past i looked to my first officer he looked like he had just found out his wife was having an affair and the typical scenario with this is we got on the ground well there were four other airliners in the area the controller asked does anybody want to report it and they said no it's just a meteor and we had seen a like a flash of white light and the thing took off at about a 45 degree angle back into space and i i chimed in on the radio i said when does a meteor go back up so when we got to the ground he he didn't want to talk about it didn't want to report it and he never flew with me again but but this is a sad scenario because happens so much uh

27:50 pilots come up and tell me what they've seen many in uh areas over the ocean where there is no radar and they're some of these fighter pilots are pretty brave guys they fought in wars and yet they're afraid of mentioning this mostly for fear of i have been uh invited in to talk with with a small group of high-level people a couple of senators and gordon cooper the astronaut one of our original seven and edgar mitchell are friends of mine and i i'm really proud of the effort they put out trying to get this information out because it is very hard to get to the truth on this subject which is ridiculed so much but it's also so hard to get to the proof and that's what everybody's after and and i i have found out why this proof is so hard to get after and there's so much more i could share when you're down to just a few minutes uh you have to almost be a top 40 disc

28:51 jockey to get through but you got a couple more minutes so please tell us three minutes one one thing uh you think the government doesn't take this seriously i don't know if you've heard about this book i told the history channel about it back when it first came out uh it was first came out in 78 but in the second edition came out and they added the section this is the fire officer's guide to disaster control for our federal and uh civilian fire disaster people for atomic wars or whatever and how to deal with it's written by navy ex-navy personnel one's an attorney one's a phd and the main section that they revised in 1992 was on the ufo threat of fact and it tells the firefighters who are usually first on the scene how to deal with the crashed ufo possibly dead extraterrestrials or live ones and how to deal with the crowd situation

29:54 radiation problems and that's that information so it's a very interesting addition that they added in 1992 on this there are some very uh important books that people always ask me because after i was uh got involved talking about this subject to some co-pilots i was turned and i was evaluated for four four days of flight testing and everything went smooth and in fact the chief pilot said well you got through okay you get to keep your job and i'm very interested in the subject now it looks like there's more to this than i thought so we we used to have long talks about and through that situation i was so about my freedom of speech rights after how i was treated as a pilot and other pilots around the world have been treated then i ended up getting the opportunity to do a five day a week live uncensored television show for

30:56 almost three years and we did just a little over 500 shows on this subject and other mysteries that i found out regarding the the ufo subject is basically the tip of the iceberg this stuff gets very deep and i can understand just like stanton friedman has said many many times of the the reasons why this has been uh kept secret it's much more involved than people realize who don't do their homework because most people are so busy getting their kids to school paying their mortgage and their own boxed that a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still and all we can do is just keep trying and hopefully the press will have more serious articles and the the articles have been published this week unfortunately that are put a bad frame on the seriousness of this subject you've got about 30 seconds and uh i hope the pilots of the world that are listening will

31:57 not be afraid to tell what they see and and not fear the ridicule because this has got to end after so many years of this but once again i i do recommend if somebody is interested in this subject i always recommend richard dolan's books excellent research linda molten howes books stanton friedman's books timothy good's book called above top and brad steiger's book the rainbow conspiracy and also michael hesselman's book the secret history of ufos there are many others i have a collection of over probably 3 000 ufo books at my house and hundreds and hundreds of videos we all can't be crazy thank you for your time thank you very much now let's see now if we could hear from lieutenant colonel richard french i am lieutenant colonel richard french i was a fighter pilot in both

32:58 korea and vietnam during a number of my a number of flights of mine i have a little trouble reading this because it's been freehand written and having a little trouble picking it up to the sightings of a number of ufos i'm going to go to the first one that stands out most in my mind i was at spandaum germany when i received a telephone call from the osi district commander telling me to go investigate a reported in the water in newfoundland four four hours later i arrived to find a large crowd on the and there were divers in the water the water was very clear you could see down as much as uh

33:58 200 feet in it and but what i saw down there were two ufos parked side by side and but i couldn't see anyone around either one of them then a little later someone moved to the one of the ufo occupancy and i guess go ahead and call them what they are the alien moved over to the side and became came into my line of sight very soon after that he came out came out of the water going approximately 100 miles an hour as soon as he broke the surface of the water he increased his speed to 2500 miles an hour and quickly went out of sight he was gone for about 15 or 20 minutes he came right back right when it went and slowed down very much went in the water again at about 100 miles an

34:59 went on down to and he and the other one you could see them working on on the ufos they after about approximately two hours of apparently performing maintenance on the on the ufos the two of them took off together again we went left the water at about at about 100 miles an hour accelerated to well over 2500 miles an going went virtually straight up and the the speeds that i am that i report in this i arrived at the figures simply by and in that uh i could take things that were at a known distance and then calculate based on

36:01 where they were and how long it took them to get to another place is what i use as a standard for saying how for estimating their speed in another instance i was on my way to i would again i was out over the water just about three miles offshore of the northern extreme of the mediterranean sea i looked up to my left and five miles away i saw a lighted ufo i went down into the it went down into the center of mount blanc if you know where mount blanc is in france it went down into the center of mount blanc was down there for approximately 15 minutes and turned around and came right

37:01 back out since then i have noticed that there's there's something about uh the inside of volcanoes that seems to attract them and in discussing that with uh with other people we reached this conclusion that whether it's right or wrong this is the closest we can get to a logical reason for why they do that it they may very well be and have been for some time actually defending the the earth because what other purpose would they have for it but we have no way of knowing what whether they are doing something constructive but because i'm certain that they wouldn't risk their equipment and lives and like that if they didn't have a useful purpose for it you know i just mentioned and others i went i saw the same thing in hawaii and again and the uh

38:04 the live volcano killer whale which i'm sure you're familiar with and anyway that went down inside of that i saw him again when i was in uh down in sicily and uh they went down inside of the volcano that that's uh uh you know the famous one that has when it erupted it lay waste to about 100 square miles of land in all cases the the ufos have they've all been the same shape they've they've all been uh the cigar-shaped and in all cases where i was able to see see the aliens they were what we call who you've probably heard them mention by other people that are reporting in the same

39:09 the last that i personally witnessed happened right in sedona by where i lived quite recently and what happened i have a i used to go out of my in the early evening i'd go out on my back patio and you know look the stars the scenery and sedona is spectacular as you may know if you've been there but anyway i saw this one go by and but when it went by i didn't think it was a ufo my the thing i thought was that it was simply a meteorite and but you know i watched it i watched it we went from north to south and disappeared and i thought well that's a meteorite and i believed that until the thing turned 180 degrees and flew back well that immediately convinced me that that was something that meteorites don't normally do and that concludes my speech gentlemen thank you very much

40:10 thank you mr steve allen would you proceed thank you good morning distinguished members of the panel greetings from the lone star state thank you for taking time to investigate i hope it'll be rewarding my name is steve allen please forgive me i'm not a public speaker so i'll do the best i can in fact i'm just an old country boy so bear with me i live near stephenville texas i'm the owner of a transportation company i'm a private pilot of an aircraft been flying most of my life i'm a witness to what i feel and others have said could very well be the most significant sighting in history why you ask several reasons multiple including business owners former faa air traffic controllers ranch and law there have been multiple witnesses of events in the past but this time well you know many

41:12 may not remember all details distort the facts and even lie to you but this time there is a very comprehensive radar report compiled from several government radars the radars have no hidden agenda and no it simply reports what it sees here's my on the evening of january the 8th 2008 at 6 15 p.m in seldon texas just outside of stephenville at my friend's home mike odom i witnessed a set of four very bright intensity lights flying extremely fast in a very low altitude what seemed to be coming directly at us flying from east to west i knew immediately this is nothing i had ever seen i paid very close attention to all i had a feeling this would be a historic the object to be very appeared to be very large about a half a mile wide and close to a

42:12 mile long the lights came past us at approximately 3000 feet agl that's a above ground level it was up close and personal this was not something way out in the heavens but it was right there before our eyes it was totally silent made no wind noise no engine noise nothing as the aircraft traveled past us i had a strange feeling they were aware we were watching them and they were aware of us as well never had had that feeling before also as the object passed by us you could see seven extremely bright lights in the rear of the craft all in a horizontal fashion blinking in no particular order the object came to a complete stop over stephenville texas about three to four miles away the seven lights reconfigured into an arch shape like the top of a football then to a vertical shape then in a split second they duplicated

43:14 with two sets of seven lights then another brief moment they burst into a light colored flames almost white in color which looked to be contained in a large box or a rectangle shape then about three or four seconds later they simply disappeared did not streak off in the distance but simply disappeared i was amazed one of the members of our party a rural mail carrier named lance jones abruptly left the scene after the event all to our disbelief we ran into my friend's home mike odum which had witnessed the event as well and told his wife claudette she doubted us and wanted to call lance jones the mail carrier to verify our we invited her to do so clauve claudette telephoned mr jones and he instructed us to run back outside it was coming back we bolted out the sure enough this time the object was traveling from west to east at a very high rate of speed but

44:14 i could hear the roar of jets in the immediate distance then a moment later sure enough the object had two f-16s in hot pursuit full afterburner the flames were protruding from the after the aircrafts they were down on the deck and very close to us they shook the ground and rattled the windows the object was much closer than first sighted moments before we stood there silently in amazement and watched the object with the jets chasing speed off over the distance into the the next morning i reported the event to my local airport where i hanger my after they made several calls they were unable to find out anything then i contacted the local newspaper like opening a pandora's box that's when the world found out about the event i made the dire mistake of putting my telephone number in the i received many phone calls daily with no less than 60 calls per day from

45:16 actual witnesses all of the people that had witnessed the event some were willing to come forward with their story and some would not in the next few days we were all on the local news channels cbs nbc abc fox but then four days after the event larry king's show and several days after o'reilly factor good morning america prime time peter jennings just to name a few national geographic history channel discovery channel just to name a few more made productions centered around the event in the early stages angela joyner from the local newspaper empire tribune or e.t for short how ironic contacted major carl lewis at the naval air station joint reserve base in fort he consistently denied any of the aircraft in the area and attempted to explain it away he offered several possible scenarios but none were

46:18 ten days later lo and behold a press release stating they did in fact have 10 f-16s in the area then came robert powell and glenn they filed several freedom of information act documents they compiled the radar data hits in the in the schultz powell report sure enough a very detailed comprehensive report emerged there it was an unidentified aircraft with no transponder traveling from east to west at 1900 to 2100 miles an hour then in less than 10 seconds slowing to a speed of less than 50 miles an hour over stephenville texas what could do then the object reversed course and traveling from east to west with the two f-16s in pursuit what else did the radar report show well additional f-16s four f-16s on either side of the aircraft attempting to flank the object also in awk's airborne weather command

47:22 that's the aircraft with the giant frisbee-like radar on its rear at 41 000 foot circling the area for over four hours powell and schultz also received copies of the f-16 log books many had been redacted to cover up what the craft ended up 10 miles from the former president bush's western white house in crawford texas then we had no more radar info we do not all i do know is what i observed this event well did not need to be a trained observer a pilot or anything else to describe it a first grader could have reported this to me all this is very concerning it has been etched into my brain has affected my life in many ways mostly for the good more questions than what could have outperformed our best aircraft why were they chasing it with it is a danger to myself or others while

48:24 do they mean us harm i think we all have more questions than answers myself and the public respectfully demands answers hopefully you will be able to help us okay well thank you very much witnesses uh we'll have 10 minutes for questioning from each member of the panel and if any would like to reserve some of their time on the first round we'll hopefully get two rounds in if that's if it's possible mr callahan i'd like to start and ask a little more context on that meeting in the faa where was it and what was the year you mentioned the reagan administration i'd just like to to put this what's your testimony a little more context so i understand it

49:24 just a little bit better well at faa headquarters 800 the administrator is on the 10th floor on the 10th floor he has what we call a round room similar to what the president has and he had set up a meeting for us to go at that in that room it also had a uh a big tv screen that comes out of the wall so it's similar to what you have up here and uh the people that were there were the three scientists the uh three-year cie guys a bunch of grunts i brought up 22 experts from the area they watched the video and i've got the original copy of the video here in case you guys are ever interested okay about the voice tapes from the military they were probably what about you'd say 30 to 40 people um in attendance at that yeah pretty close yeah and did let me ask you this question when was

50:24 first time that happened what year 80 88 i guess 86 when if you can remember and approximate approximations are just fine here when was the first time you were able to or that you felt comfortable or in fact in any under any sort of sense talk about this openly to you know let people know what witnessed at that briefing well i don't have any problems being comfortable anytime soon so you did it immediately i take it yeah my wife is uh one of those engineers software engineers and after i spoke to the uh administrator on the way home i told her what we had seen up at lank i played the tape at home and she's one of those guys if you asked her what time it was she'd tell you how to build a watch first well she's watching the tv screen at home and she's telling me what we're looking at and how that target got there and get there so besides your wife who else

51:25 did you tell about this event and let me just practice that with were you asked by anybody there cia the three cia gentlemen not to talk about the briefing or well they made a comment but they were talking to the people i brought up so in other words you okay as far as i was concerned they weren't talking to me i just ranked them and you know okay i appreciate that um i'd like to just ask jim corrant to follow up a few a few questions on what you testified let's see the sighting you had was in 1995 i understand yes uh did you have any sightings in your was it 40 years experience as an airline pilot that you mentioned or 30 to 40 years flying as an airline pilot since so over 40 years experience uh any other sightings yeah

52:26 there were it was unusual but at two different locations a week apart in the middle of the night uh and both times i had two different co-pilots they were uh ironically both uh ex tanker pilots so they they knew what a tanker operation looks like at night and we were you know probably around 35 000 feet 32 000 the other incident one was over montana one over georgia uh two in the morning the first one a little past 3 30 in the morning the other one both times no radar contact they were ironically a very similar of i'd never heard of these type shapes before as far as that high up but in my research but they were like glowing orbs three of them in formation and they were hovering and we're cruising along about 450 miles an hour and like i said before i'm a helicopter

53:28 instructor so obviously a helicopter can't hover that uh but i must say with all this uh they're most of what people are seeing or are aerial phenomena maybe black projects from our government so very small might be able to be it could be something of course this was uh back in 19 would have been 1985 or actually was around 85 86 but we didn't have these drones like we have now but i don't even think they fly that high but they these things were just hovering there stationary and then they just slowly turned to the left and started flying off and both times when we asked the controllers you have on the radar and they said we showed no traffic in your art casts which is our traffic avoidance system never went off and i just um well i'm going to get back to this radar question but i'd like to reserve the balance of my time okay it's a

54:29 fantastic question so i'd like to call on representative woolsey too thank you mr chairman uh major filer yes this is just a out of the blue question but i'd like to hear your perspective on it and if any of the rest of you have uh ideas about this both two questions one could a ufo like a drone be uh controlled from the ground electronically or at two could you you could ufo materials be developed here in the united states or on earth and tested against uh our military uh well i think possible both are true um pardon ben rich at lockheed indicated that uh so many words we had

55:30 engineered some of these craft and we're now able to take e.t home the point is is that apparently we're able to do a lot of things now and and probably some of what we're seeing is is our own ufo so to speak well okay now but do you think we're learning from the ufos and then we're uh building because of i we're or are we where we was that us in the first place well i i th in a sense i think anything's possible but i also believe that we're being visited anybody else have a thought on that i mean you know maybe we're way more clever than any of us realize and uh my question would be and it's just a push back on making sure we've covered all ground are setting are earthlings setting this up in the first place you know so that we find our way

56:33 to outer space and for uh what could come with wars in outer space but or are the non-earthlings coming to us and showing us what they know and we're realizing we've got to compete it's a good question what you asked because i never heard that before the people i talked to that have been in the reverse engineering they call it with the ufos that they captured they could by now because it's been what 30 years or more they could have developed a ship that they could be out practicing with or a group of ships if you remember dr mitchell when he he said when he was in route to the moon he looked out the left portal i would have called it a window and he called down to nassar and said i'm now a fighter too he thought that that spaceship flying along with them was

57:34 made here in the united states and they were fight checking it so it is possible that the united states has been making these ufos but i don't think they're going to tell us and it's just one of those how do you really know okay anybody else yes mr allen uh two points why would our jets be chasing it and why would they let it out over a very densely populated if it was ours good questions yes well don't ask me i'm asking you i mean why because uh possibly our we want to find out if our military can keep up with could be attacked what we've learned is out there but uh you would think they'd test it out in the desert somewhere where there's no observers and media attention right but most of it has been over open space i would the individual that gave me most of my flying lessons when i was younger

58:34 was a triple h in world war ii two books were written about him one by a general from the air force academy his name was colonel leroy gover and uh he was one of the 100 american pilots in world war ii he went over to canada and then became commander of eagle squadron i knew him for 40 years he was a pilot's and on his deathbed three weeks before he passed on i gave him a copy of colonel corso's book the day after roswell and he said i don't know a whole lot about certain aspects of this book if it's all true but i can tell you from what i was involved with the people i knew because he was with the army air corps which later the same year as the alleged incident roswell happened the air force was formed along with the united nations and other developments but he confirmed that uh in his words and i never heard this man

59:37 he said they they were androgynous they didn't know their full technological capabilities at that time at least one of them survived uh they know their full uh psychological makeup or where they were from or what this was all about this was at this time so that's just one other deathbed statement he was a good friend and so was gordon cooper who basically made similar statements uh the years that i knew him so i'm going to ask a very short question of you uh jim because it's appropriate at this point um and then i'm going to waive the rest of my time or until later has your credibility been questioned you were a believer before you had so we're part of a sighting and people say oh yeah well he wanted that to happen so he met he made it happen amazingly enough that come up in discussion but it's it's

1:00:41 something that i expected but that that hasn't been a problem okay good thank you very much and i'll yield for the time being could we uh go to representative bartlett please thank you very much mr cullen the event that you describe is exactly the kind of thing that i think is most credible let me understand how many different people saw this so the radar returned well are there not people that saw the craft and people that saw the radar returns no the only ones that saw the craft was the japanese pilot and the other two with them there's okay so there were three people that saw the craft all right and how many people saw the radar oh no 20 30 23 people yeah yeah these are the kinds of things that are just very difficult to explain away

1:01:43 where you have eyewitnesses and a radar track and a real radar track but apparently some of these things don't leave a radar track the other day we had testimony from a pilot in south america that they can absorb bullets something that can absorb bullets can absorb radar i would think well the radar picks up all the traffic but most people don't understand how the system works and that's what blows their if you're an air traffic controller and you're working your sector in front of you you've got 500 miles that you're taking care of the antennas going by every nine or ten and it picks up a primary target which is the size of a pencil eraser and it puts it on your scope right here you could be working traffic going this way when that target shows up we don't know who it is and you're going to look at that and say well if he gets close to this guy i'll do something 10 seconds later that target is over here someplace nowhere near your traffic so your mind says it must have been an 18-wheeler it could be somebody low i don't know

1:02:44 what it was the radar always picks up everything flying but it they so fast that you don't recognize them today to fly in the faa system if you're flying below 10 000 you have to stay at 250 knots if you're flying above 10 000 or above 18 000 you have to have a working transponder on your aircraft that sends out a signal to the radar that says this is me and it shows a different target on the screen that's what we see when our people are flying the ufos don't have transponders and they don't care about our rules and regulations they come and go i don't know how you're going to solve that problem are these records now i didn't hear you are these records now available or have they been taken somewhere the radar tracks oh i've uh a copy of it of the video i took i also had the engineers at the tech

1:03:46 center produced this chart and i've got the papers that you can have any anybody that knows anything about automation they could plot all the airplanes along the route of flight and the the engineers that did this they wrote down that this is the first time the ufo showed up the first time the military seen the ufo the pilot uh at the zero two two seven zero six norad called they lost the they put two sheets of paper like this together on the board they said this is what happens now when i was talking to the engineers the hardware and software engineers i asked them to tell me what the target was alongside the 747 and the hardware engineer says that target right there is a software problem this one's a software all the way down the targets that showed up were software problems the software engineer gets up and says this target here is a hardware problem

1:04:49 that's a hardware problem so my question to them was well if it's not a hardware problem and it's not a software problem then what the hell is it what are we looking at i'm still thinking it's a stealth bomber and one of them he says my religion forbids me to believe in so i said well how do you know it ain't the stealth bomber they knew what they were looking at they knew what they were putting out on the chart and it was something that didn't belong here in the united states but you won't see if you go up and watch radar today you won't see the ufos he's shooting across the he has to slow down to somewhere around 600 knots and then he would if he stayed with the with the airline pilot you would see the airline's target the computer would tell you who it is it's transworld whatever it is what his speed was what his altitude was as he's climbing what not all that data is on the screen and next to it to be a dot and unless

1:05:50 pilot said hey if you got some somebody at my altitude we would never know that that's what it was if he stayed a little bit above that that aircraft he wouldn't see it wouldn't give it any thought we would not know once the pilot says hey there's somebody at my altitude here if it was a leader jet or a military had the pilot said it looks like an f106 playing games out here we would attract that little dot all the way to we landed and we would have wrote them up for flying and controlled airspace without the faa's approval i think you've answered my next question that was how do those who say there is no such thing as just explain it away and they're explaining it as either a a software problem or a hardware problem well that's what the engineers i gather okay okay thank you very much uh mr piper the hills in england and the energy from the hills can you explain that a bit pardon me you mentioned hills in england and energy from the hills

1:06:51 yes we've done some indication that the ufos may need some kind of and magnetic energy and all over the world there's pyramids or hills or mountainous terrain where they seem to be attracted to and have often been reported in landing on top of these pyramids that kind of thing and we're assuming that they may use this as a power station there's a books out that indicate that the pyramids actually generate power that their power stations in some way and for example right now there's some 200 pyramids in china with flat tops to them which make them ideal for a craft landing on them and the chinese are declaring that they're some 10 000 years old the question is how did these huge pyramids be built

1:07:51 when we were basically not much further along than cavemen yeah that that's very let me continue a little bit more with this with uh mr uh alan you um uh mentioned that there was that they just disappeared yes sir just in a flash they didn't streak off or anything it simply and when you saw it uh take off there was no propulsion sound there was no wind sound correct no wind noise no uh no engine noise nothing and we was this has anybody speculated on how a large object like that could move so rapidly through the air and have no wind that's one of our questions pure were these tracked by radar yes sir yes that's a comprehensive radar report i think you do have a copy of it so there's something tracked by radars and people saw it so you know it's there and it moves very

1:08:55 and there's no propulsion sound and there's no wind sound no propulsion pound sound i understand because we don't know how they propel themselves if it's an anti-gravity thing or something obviously there's going to be no propulsion sound but you're going the molecules i don't understand that yes sir colonel frank i apologize for this because i had intended to discuss the phoenix lights and uh i by accident i stepped over but go ahead and take the rest of my time to discuss the phoenix lights go ahead what happened i was this is it happened in 1997. i was at with four friends at and we were up at an area called the boulders which is in north actually northern scottsdale and uh that was when the phoenix lights you know were where uh they were explaining what they were was that they were actually targets for gunnery practice

1:09:58 well i i knew better than that and i was explaining to them why number one uh one of those target gunnery targets they're they're a flare and the flare burns for exactly one minute and 21 seconds and another thing about them of the a gunnery flare may go up or down now the reason it'll go up it it'll capture heat in the with in the deployed uh area of the parachute and it'll rise or it won't capture enough air in it and then it'll descend and sit so i knew i knew then they couldn't be and i'm telling to my friends you know no they got this all wrong while i'm in the process of doing that there was a low spot in the well it's a mountain range but it's not an extreme one and this ufo came through that cut and of course there was no lights on it that i could see at that point when it went by and now

1:11:00 it's going at this time at about 50 miles an hour and descending slowly and headed in the direction of tucson to the south well the uh the set as it got past me and about probably 30 miles down the lights out on the range they didn't go out they stayed on but they started heading for tucson the the ufo now it went by made absolutely no sound it was less than a hundred yards from me and you could hear absolutely nothing yet the the vehicle was actually nearly a mile and approximately 60 feet in diameter again silent totally silent when it got in the vicinity of tucson the smaller ufos that were had were reported to be parachuted i

1:12:03 parachute targets they headed toward tucson and at that time i could see on the side of the uh ufo like little doors open they entered the other we call them mother ships anyway the the smaller ones went into the mother ships the mother ships went when they got to tucson and very quietly disappeared went right up and out and thank you so much first of all thank you for your testimony um jim i'd like to ask you a question um did people not talk about this because they were they were afraid for their families when did people when did you start talking to other people about what you saw

1:13:04 what happened uh probably more after the tv show ufo cover up live in 1988 it was kind of the beginning of the from what i understand a slow education process for modern times of the public and there's been since then it's been easier to talk about this situation with uh other crew crew members do come up they've seen me on tv and they say i'm still afraid to talk about it but let me tell you what happened to me or my father when he was in the military or this or that but i you know i'm glad that these shows through the last 20 years on discovery channel learning channel even the show recently that's a series his ancient aliens if you look at things like the eca stones of ika peru very fascinating case with the 50 000

1:14:05 amazing i've traveled the world studying these things and and it's it just gets deeper and deeper and more amazing but one of the problems with people uh not being able to accept this even and it is a major issue is the if these entities are getting here which i as a person believe they are based on my research they've conquered gravity once you conquer gravity you conquer everything so there goes the fossil fuel-based you economy of the world and we can go on and on the religious issues are pretty but carl sagan on his show cosmos you know he he admitted with 200 billion stars out there the in the drake equation they must be out but they can't get here and what's locking that problem is the theory of relativity with so what you really have to kind of take a look is maybe there's something beyond the theory of relativity and what's faster than the speed of

1:15:06 light thought from what i understand from scientists that have been involved with uh these projects is they they've they're thousands of years ahead of us probably and they've definitely used some kind of uh incredible thought process some kind of inversion energy process to get here and they basically warp time so as as profound as it sounds if you'd uh told me that uh 10 years ago people be bumping into themselves in an airport terminal like zombies looking down at these devices these cell phones i wouldn't have believed it and so anything's possible but we do have based what i understand called a tr-3b there's probably either many other advanced craft that we've developed at some of these installations like 51 or pine gap in australia possibly that do hover silently

1:16:06 and they can duplicate some of the technology but we haven't been able to replicate it 100 percent thank you um i don't know if anyone wants to volunteer for this question but nobody talks about the sound there was no are there no sounds that you heard when you um saw a spaceship or saw a flying object was that did they make any sound so you have to be is that why more pilots have seen them than anyone else because you're in the air space with them um i'm with the mufon organization and we investigate these sightings and we get about a thousand sightings per per month and actually i write about it in my filers files which i'm happy to send to i'm sending out 17 000 emails a week discussing the sightings

1:17:06 that we're getting but generally people say that there's no occasionally when the ufo goes right you know they can see it go right overhead just a few hundred feet above they'll hear what sounds like a electric okay and it's that description has been given many times sometimes a buzz and it's very low and obviously if you're in an aircraft you wouldn't hear it or even if it's a little bit further away you wouldn't hurt point is that there apparently is at least on some of the ufos uh a small almost indistinct sound and that's probably to do the like you mentioned with the overcoming gravity and it seems to have a lot of electrical energy surrounding it and not only radar has picked it up but other types of uh instruments for example just your

1:18:08 typical compass that you you know you can buy any case they the ufos nearby it will usually turn the to directly point towards them can i give you a just a little extra of whenever i spoke i was invited someplace to speak on tv they always brought in this little japanese guy who's on channel five michikooka or something like that he would get up and explain how it's to go from one plant to the other and he would explain the thousands of light now a few months ago he was on fox news and sitting behind him was a picture of the earth and they asked him what that was and he says the hubble telescope sent this picture back the other day last week he says this this is a small planet similar to earth it has atmosphere and it could probably have life on it and if they were a thousand years older than us they may have developed

1:19:10 some type of travel a week or two later he's back on and now there's a big earth right behind vigorous he says this planet came from the hubble telescope it is a hundred times bigger than earth and it has atmosphere and it could have life and if they were one to two thousand years older than us they could have developed space travel and they could do the wormholes and they could go from place to place and they said well what else does that tell you he says well the biggest thing it tells us is that the universe goes on forever apparently they had thought before it was like the earth was flat and eventually you would run out of the universe but now he says it goes on and there's two planets that they have identified through the hubble telescope that have been there longer than us so you might want to consider that is that your fight yeah okay may i make one closing of course

1:20:14 had i came in here i was not a skeptic when i came in here i already believed in them but i say very clearly that had i been a skeptic when i came in i would have been convinced by the simple testimony of my let me say let me say that the testimony i think has been and your backgrounds and where you come and and the fact that you are willing to come forward and talk about this i think is a credit to all of you so thank you for doing that i have two minutes left and i'm going to reserve my time mr chair okay i'd like to ask senator gravel two questions one uh when we look at the shape of the vehicles that have been observed the

1:21:17 two shapes stand out one is something flat like a disc and the other is cigar shaped could the cigar shaped uh which is you know substantially different uh could it be the angle of observation because if you observe a disc shape at a certain angle it looks cigar shaped could that be the case and that talking more uniformly about this disc shapes than disc and cigar shapes anybody could answer um one of the the pilot reports was what's was on the news for a while but then the pilots were told to uh not talk about it they never gave their names but they were uh watching they were thousands of feet in the air 737 and out of the clouds came this giant mile long cigar-shaped

1:22:18 craft and it was cigar-shaped they they aren't disc shaped so uh unfortunately the the never wanted to talk about it again after hit the news and they played their voice tapes over the over the television and uh you know they they took some heat for it but thank god i've got danny sheehan over there to protect me as a good attorney in case i get trouble here bless you you're talking about a cigar shape of a mile long yeah we have dozens it couldn't be it could be a confusion of a contrail which could be a mile long no i know these are these uh you're hearing reports of uh you know size of three aircraft carriers or in my friend's case when that over the pacific they said it was the size of an aircraft carrier and they're they're in a 747 you are they looney tunes are they pilots like uh you know this movie flight with dwayne with mr washington uh no the pilots are very serious in their profession and they know what they

1:23:20 whether i can understand where it might look like a disc but they they usually know if it's oval shaped sphere shaped or a mile long that's that's a big that a pilot wouldn't make i have a boyfriend who was a captain in pan am and flew the the largest of four but uh the other thing i want to touch on which really doesn't surprise me but maybe a little angers me and that is the back engineering and i think you referred to somebody from lockheed or grumman or what a company saying that they back engineered uh what was the debris or whatever they they got their hands on through the government uh and they can take et home okay well that sounds like an exaggeration to me because if there's a company that's a propulsion system equal to what's been

1:24:20 by all of our witnesses then and based upon dr greer's testimony you know we just alter alter life on this planet if if that form of energy is is known so for somebody who's an engineer at a major contracting firm can boast to you or anybody that we can take e.t home then that son of a is denying the planet something very and that's what angers me so i i question i question i i think it's boastfulness but correct me i give you the opportunity to correct me was the person who told you that they could take e.t home did it was he looney tunes or was he a serious engineer or or was he just boasting in your judgment well he's worked for a lockheed he was head of skunk works he was in a very important position and i have friends who were at the

1:25:22 briefing where he said this jan harrison at ucla and he said in front of you know like a hundred i don't know if he was bragging or not but he said it very clearly well but the implications of that now i've met people in very high places that are looney tunes well i know so that's not a criteria of credibility uh you know all that is is that he's walking around or he's walking around but but the implication of that is what really must be focused on is that if somebody who's in a any responsible corporate activity obviously funded by the government to some degree and can make the statement with any degree of credibility that we can take e.t home then there's grounds for prosecution you know or some there's grounds for something it doesn't strike me as as a proper assessment it strikes me as boastfulness the bravado that exists many times with

1:26:25 technicians or politicians i just don't want to attack technicians well obviously what we're studying here is has all kinds of implications and one of the implications that was written about in the air force physics books that was taught at the air force academy said that if these craft really exist and and i've seen them and like everyone here has seen them that much of what we have concerning our laws of physics our laws of biology and so on are probably incorrect so you can see how it would affect the whole civilization if it was released to the public and i agree with that statement totally and that's the reason why i questioned the statement that we can take e.t home okay can i give you one more thought assuming that the ufos are there are correct they travel from one planet to the other

1:27:27 where they stop for a gas station what do they do for oil what do they do for medical for the the people that that's there i my own personal thing there's enough people here in the united states or on this planet that would not want the rest of the people to know how they could get this free uh power and the the better medical stuff so some of that's kept aside also the companies or the corporations or whoever's in charge they're not going to want you to know that you can take a toaster and give a new york city all the power they want they don't want you to know that they're selling their product and they got to keep control of their product look what we're paying for gas today almost five dollars a gallon yeah i found jim please the man that the world doesn't give enough credit to

1:28:29 that started this late in the late 1800s nikola tesla you look he's almost like forrest gump he's he was everywhere working with and and alexander graham bell and einstein and uh they finally gave him credit for inventing the radio over marconi i'm sure they're going to give him credit for television radar but we would not have the world we have today without his invention of alternating current but somebody starts needing to educate the the kids in college and the world a little better other than that very good show on pbs of the man who created lightning and give this man who whoever he was credit for the world he brought us nikola tesla start doing some homework on him i i would respond to what you had said john that was that i found in my life and

1:29:30 in my career that there are more than people are aware of but but there are less conspiracies than people think it sounds like uh oxymoron but but it is uh you know we can and of course the the the audience reacted to your statement in that regard sure there's conspiracies we know it all the time where new technology is bought up by a corporation because it impacts and we know that the corporate interest is more interested in in maximizing the profits from what they already have in uh we see this with refineries that should be shut down but they're still making money with them and they're not going to build a new one because they they got the old one that they're making more profit on but but you you come to the reality and this is where i come back uh something is significant as the unknown the scientific unknown

1:30:33 and the lack of rationale we have to understanding fully what what these ets are all about and primarily the propulsion you know we've seen testimony it may be thought what i don't know i'm not enough scientist i'd defer to my colleague congressman barrett who's a lot more educated in that area but he comes up with the same queries i notice our questions are very similar in that but i just want to underscore excuse me but and then with all due respect the time is expired well fine good i think we could go to uh representative patrick thank you mr chairman i came to this at the invitation of citizen hearing to find out more about the world in the when i first got the letter inviting me to participate i did my homework and looked at the 1968 report of the science committee in the united states house of

1:31:35 i read it was real briefed on it and thought it was a beginning did not confirm but had a lot of evidence that something else is among us so i thought i'd better look earlier and look more into that when my local newspaper decided to publish that i agreed to participate it even opened wider from people i did not know and from around this country and out of the some cynics but mostly scientists and intelligent people who after years of watching the and participating in it came to the conclusion that there is something and that we ought to look into it so i i agreed to come when i came in on monday now tuesday wednesday thursday and now friday from nine to five i heard some of the most intelligent the most scientific the most universal knowledge on the on the topic that i didn't know i was going to witness so when i came in here today

1:32:37 and mockery is being made of it i'm i think it's unfortunate yesterday we heard from 12 different countries who have hundreds of of scientific intelligent information on the subject so i mentioned they mentioned another 12 or 13 that weren't here yesterday but also believe it behooves us as human in what is known as the greatest country in the world to participate in that not just to seize or to take but to participate and find out what it is as a grandmother of six two sets of i want them to have the kind of world that we've enjoyed all my 60 plus years and to not act like something exists and then further to act like it's a joke we do a disservice to our ancestors to and to the people of the world

1:33:39 so i'm saying i'm very new at this i serve 18 years in michigan state house and 15 years in this congress now here sitting with you i'm a high school teacher two children six i want the world and the universe to continue and if there is something out there and i'm not a scientist i have a master's degree from the university of i'm learn it as you would call it but there's a whole lot we don't know i think it's ignorant of any people not to seek out what we need to know to continue the universe i was convinced before this morning's that there probably is something out there and i'm willing to work the rest of my life to see that it if it and how we can enhance the universe to see that we all have a better quality of as an appropriator on the house committee here and the first african-american woman to serve on appropriations in michigan for 18 years in 12 of my 14 years here in congress on the money committee this federal budget is almost 4 trillion

1:34:41 the defense budget is 700 billion of that i served on that appropriations bill for many many years much has been said already that's why i'm giving you this because i want to bring it back to what i came here for i don't want to leave it with some yellow guy with stuff sticking out of his head it's way more serious than that i can't lie i haven't laughed at anything in here because nothing's funny to me i don't mean today i mean all week it's very serious the world is in peril our country is economically socially and economically at a disadvantage right now but we fix that by being partners in what we believe is correct and what if issues you pick to work in and not to put down historical data that's scientifically proven you may not believe it but don't work in that era don't come in here and just castigate those who do that's what's wrong with our nation i think in our country and our world we don't work well enough together if someone doesn't look like we like look think like we think we think something's wrong with them rather than grab it and

1:35:42 let's enhance what we already know you know i think i'm going to jim corrant that's my editorial and i think being last i could say that because you guys have kind of disturbed me this morning i think the citizens hearing on disclosure is real i thought before today that most of you thought that too when two or three people can come in the room and change us various intelligent subjects such as this to something other than what it is that does a disservice to our country and to our world i think mr kran i'm pronouncing that right correct you said something about proof what is the proof we've been sitting here for 10 hours a day and some people half the night discussing the scientific proof that's been revealed you sound very learned in the subject but i'm not sure do you believe in ufos is there another is there an extra seo presence in the world ought to be more involved in that well i've still got three years left to fly so

1:36:45 um ted koppel once said on his uh abc news show which i thought was a very good statement in my opinion is who's the most wonderful and uh greatest extraterrestrial never seen and that was god and it's a big universe out there and so the proof as far as uh can you as far as how they're getting here and their craft and that type of thing is this gets deeper than that and i have run into people that probably have the the proof you're talking about but they're not going to risk their security clearance or whatever else they're risking their families for one to make that possible but i would say the reason i've stuck in this so long and stuck my neck out so far uh is is not just about losing their career but it's it's because i there are certain things that i've uh been privy to to keep me going

1:37:46 but um at this point i i can't get into that but and i've uh i wish i you know we we do and there have been some military men who've come to this table this week there's people out there that that have the proof you're looking for but it's you know we're talking uh on a need to know basis very very high security clearances absolutely national security service should and should be uh you know i understand that and then i was gonna say that the military people came before us and just coincidentally they were all men but i know that there are many i served on the for this room it seems like a different room than the other four days and i'm not trying to take anything away from intel field or the military officers that are a bit involved with this they're doing their orders this this from what astronaut gordon cooper told me that they started these lies in 47 after roswell and roswell wasn't the okay let me reclaim my time thank you so much thank you thank you just just just lastly for me someone mentioned um

1:38:49 maybe it was our ufos which said to me i think it's one of the two you guys that it might have been one of our uh ufos which means says to me america's ufos uh does america are producing ufos to confuse the cosmos or what one of you said it either i'm not sure if it was you major or i think it was major did you say that or it might have been the gentleman i think i said it also is that it could be ours because they've been doing reverse engineering for 30 40 years now and there's no telling what they've i don't think anybody here is uh so there might be an existence that we're creating and also out there i'm not i'm not saying that's good or bad i just want to make sure i was understanding that's what was said because they say out in the area 51 they do have ships that come up you know and down so yeah we probably have them okay uh one thing and i'm gonna end on this uh that came out in the scientific intelligent discussions and testimonial

1:39:51 lectures that we've heard this week is that whatever's out there ufos and i haven't yet defined the difference i know some similarities some it's way more intelligent than our technology today can do more the ships the ufo's speeding up and stopping turning and all the things that we haven't yet mastered that that doesn't mean that we can't or that it doesn't exist it just means that we have more work to do and we have it more to do universally thank you very much steve allen i'd like to talk to you about now you were a pilot and you've done a lot of flying but the but the the thing you observed the incident you observed you were on the ground yes sir yes and a whole lot of people in stephenville saw what you saw it's obvious from your testimony yes

1:40:52 close to 200 witnesses and there were two was that what was established i believe so okay and the f-16s that um that you say pursued whatever that object was was also seen how many people how about uh i'm not sure the number on that one there was several though quite a few right okay and do we have is there and i know there were newspaper reports of exactly what you've said uh was the radar involved in that one yes radar reports show the f-16s in pursuit well they show the epson 16s was radar involved in the in in the object itself is what i'm asking at any stage i don't feel like it was no it's probably not and okay that's consistent with what a lot of the people observed and all well and let's see that was radar jim

1:41:54 involved in either of the incidents i think one was in 95 the others were earlier about 10 years earlier yeah they were they was radar involved there was no radar uh contact and we had no uh t cast warning the traffic controls uh air traffic control warning system in the aircraft did not go off and i thought john callahan had some pretty good information on why radar might not be if radar is not involved does that leave less credence to the idea that there might be an extraterrestrial origin then not necessarily if radar is involved well obviously we have stealth technology now where that came from i i'm not going to speculate on but uh i i would i know they just had a site that's in the news this week uh airbus aircraft british coming into glasgow scotland december 2nd and it just broke in the news yesterday and two days ago and they they were at 4 000 feet and

1:42:58 discs shaped thing came under him with the you know strange lights and all that and they never got any warning from their tcas system or wasn't on radar so this richard haynes is the he's the ex-nasa expert on this and he's the all his books and studies for years are on pilot sightings and and uh one of the strangest cases was this melbourne episode 1978 where the pilot on cessna uh disappeared after he cl he was talking on uh to air traffic control about this craft coming down bright during the day and they did have radar somebody got hold of the tapes from pine gap australia the our space monitoring agency down there something coming at him and then they never found any wreckage he's never been heard from again but there richard haynes is the expert on pilot sightings read any of his books if you're wondering about articles uh

1:44:00 from around since the 50s rob simone did an excellent job on ufos and the headlines real reporting on a real phenomena okay mr callahan we've been talking about radar you seem to know a lot about radar probably the x probably more about radar than any other expert we've heard this i think and that's not just a compliment i think it's a fact from everything i've heard at least the question i've asked is you gave some well repeat just very briefly why you think radar does not show up in some of these sightings well the radar always shows up but you can't see it that's the problem oh you remember now if a ufo or even a russian or some other come into our airspace without a working transponder then the computer would recognize that little dot that the radar picks up as nothing and if it was a huge uh

1:45:02 mass of raw radar our system says it can't be an airplane it must be weather so it puts it on what they call the with mule weather fixed mapping unit and it tells the the computer says i'll put it on the scope as a cloud unless the controller says i don't want to see the weather and if that's the case it never shows up well i'm glad i asked you this because at least for my benefit this has certainly illuminated the understanding and so it would not be fair to say if something did go ahead a number of military radar operators and faa radar operators have called me and basically there's what they said was that they were told not to tell the pilots that there was a ufo out always deny the fact the ufo exists and turn the aircraft away so they you know there's no chance of

1:46:03 hitting it or whatever the point is is i don't think there's any radar people here but that's what i've been told also they i understand there's some way that they program the computer so they're less likely to show the ufos because they're usually moving at very low altitude a very high altitude at very high speeds and the tendency for the uh radar not to pick them up but if you go back to that now i hate to do this i really do because i love what you're taking this information but my time has expired oh it's too bad i think i'm next yes excuse me representative will say go ahead you have in fact four minutes okay um pilot corrupt can you you mentioned in your testimony that you had you and a group had met with uh a group representatives on on the hill senators

1:47:06 and and this was 20 years ago there were meetings where i'd met these people on and we got talking and they invited me meet them on the subject they were interested they some of them are still active well so uh you know oh it was on the airplane it was not in their office and they invited me into their office okay well you go in their office you know guess what public they work for everybody out there they don't they but but you don't have to tell who they are but they would be if if you would let if they were as interested as you uh if somebody in the paradigm group or this the organizers here knew who they that might be a first step for us to get back onto the radar radar of uh the the congress to ask for a hearing that's i mean

1:48:07 that would be uh you've got to find this we've got to find the thread you'd think we'd know but we we don't know the person that's going to be willing to do that but if you somebody has expressed interest to you uh or you could call them maybe directly yourself if you were would be willing uh it would be a start i wish it was that easy but even well you folks the other day said if you were active in congress or senate at this time you probably ask for a hearing on this well i probably would on the science committee because that would be the perfect committee for this because it's not a very politi it's not really political and uh but i mean after this week i now that i've got information no i on one of my flights i asked uh it it kind of went the wrong way where i asked the senator he was friends with some very well-to-do friends of mine and they were main campaign fundraisers so we got talking it was just he and i in the

1:49:08 out in the waiting area before his flight and i asked him senator do you think there's a chance of ever having another congressional hearing like like 1968 with gerald ford and he said no never it's all been explained away that was one of them but i just thought maybe you'd found somebody that had some interest they're still out there i would like mr callahan to be able to complete his you had something you wanted to say and i want to mention that the military is air traffic control i started with faa when it was known as the caa before radar when controlled with strips when they brought the first radar unit into the facility it was an old vg scope that the navy used to use and the instructions was 26 pages and nobody knew how to use radar we started off with what they had was just a broadband radar raw radar

1:50:08 and eventually they were able to draw airways on this uh vg scope that we're looking at we had to do all kinds of things when when the pilot called on the frequency and he's approaching harrisonburg you look down there and there's like 15 people all in that area so you would tell them to make a right turn 30 degrees for 30 seconds then resume you want to get no and you would look to see who's turning sometimes two or three people would turn sometimes the pilots have a real sense of humor and eventually you give this guy a couple turns and you'd pick him up and say he's there that's the primary target it's only a dash we had all kinds of trouble keeping them separated from one another they weren't all flying under the faa control they invented the uh transponder they made it mandatory that you have to have a transponder to fly above certain the transponder now gives a signal so that you'll always see the target but if there's somebody flying alongside of them

1:51:10 that doesn't have a transponder he shows up as a dot the dot is always there if it's a ufo and he's traveling at three four thousand miles an hour when you look at your scope you see him okay ten seconds later he's over here he's nowhere near your area that you're controlling traffic on you get one hit maybe two he gets one hit on his sector and is gone he wouldn't know that was a ufo and as long as i've been in the faa and i had worked up to the position where i was the guy in charge of all the air traffic people in the united states if they made a if they screwed up on their phraseology it was my fault that was the new thing after the year strike so i knew everything and we did we never told our controllers not to report a ufo we did tell them not to solicit a near-miss report because when you bring two airplanes too close together they would fire what we call the near

1:52:12 miss well they were getting too many near misses so they said do not ask the pilot if he wants to file in their mess when he gets on the ground he can do it but that's the only thing we restricted uh following was the near miss report not a ufo and i uh i see that our time for this panel has expired i want to thank the panel this has been very interesting