Tic Tac witness Gary Voorhis: interview for The Nimitz Encounters (2019)

0:00 So Gary, do I have your permission to use this interview for the film that I'm working on, Nimitz Encounters? Yes, sir. So if you could just state your name and your rank at the time. At the time it was Gary P. Voorhees, fire controlman, third class. I was an Aegis computer technician and a CEC operator. So paint a picture of the ship you were on and what your job was. All right, so I was on the USS Princeton CG-59. My job was to load crypto and take care of the CEC machinery and all the mainframe computers that run Aegis, the Aegis weapon system. So when you had flight operations going on and you guys were in CEC, what does CEC stand for and what did you see in your fellow workers there? CEC's Cooperative Engagement Capability System.

1:00 It uses a system just to converge all of our environmental data and our weapons data to be able to fire non-line of sight and to give us operational capabilities of all of our ships. And what does CIC stand for and what is that in your ship? What is that room? Combat information and it's basically where everything is. It's where all our big screens are. It's where all our consoles are. It's basically where everything is going. That's where all the triggers and the buttons are pushed. And that week of November 10th, around there, what was the first time you became aware of some unknown contacts? Well, actually it was, I got a call from the spy guys, which there's an entirely different Aegis tech that runs the actual spy radar itself. And they said that they've got a bunch of

2:02 clutter and that they need to take the system down to calibrate the system to try to get rid of the clutter because they got basically invisible tracks that are coming up that can't be there. And so they're basically insane tracks. And so they took the entire system down. They calibrated everything, brought it back up. And the only thing it did was make the tracks clear, more clear. So then at that point, you know, they knew that they were actually tracking objects. And for, well, it's 14 years ago. So it was between three and five days. We tracked a bunch of unknown aircraft. And then at a certain point, we did a F-18 interrogation of it. And I remember, because all week we've, you know, we've been looking at these things through the big eyes. We've got our own personal binoculars. We've been staring at these things flying

3:03 around. And, you know, I mean, it was, everybody was kind of, you know, some people were excited. Some people didn't know about it because, I mean, a lot of the information was still classified, you know. So, I mean, we didn't, you know, obviously we weren't telling the deck semen about, you know, the unknowns we're tracking. But, you know, anybody that had clearance, anybody that had anything to do with the radars, we all knew. And so I was spending a lot of time in combat and I was spending a lot of time, you know, just kind of sitting in my computer room watching the data and just watching, making sure my recordings are going because I was also responsible for all the recordings for CIC. So all the talkbacks, all the data going over all the consoles, all that runs through our system because we were also testing what they called Q70 at the time, which was the new baseline of Aegis at the time. It was a hybrid system with an old system and a new system tied in together. And so at this point, you guys are pretty

4:04 sure that this isn't radar clutter or... Yeah, we were 100% positive it was not. And we were, I mean, we sat around just wondering why they're not doing something about it. Why are they not checking this out? Why aren't we, you know, why aren't we firing at them? Why aren't we, you know, they're invading our airspace. So it's like, you know, we were kind of all kind of sitting there just in the dark about exactly what we were dealing with. And then the day they did the intercept, everybody with a clearance was sitting in somewhere where there was a link to the land. And we were all watching the actual interrogation as it was happening. And I remember it was, it was just, you know, it was absolutely amazing. You know, we were seeing these things up close. It's one thing to see it from a heck of a distance through the big eyes and the big eyes are pretty good binoculars. And we still, you know, you still couldn't

5:05 quite grasp the shapes. You knew that it was there and that's why they were called tic tacs, but you couldn't grasp the shape or the design or the way that it looked. And then in the video, you could see it, you know, you could see the way that they looked. They see the way that it moved, that it actually changed shapes. And, you know, it, it was just the oddest thing. And, you know, I was like, oh my God, you know, that's, that's absolutely amazing. You know what I mean? And then, you know, seeing what it was doing, you know, it was going to, you know, over 25,000 feet and then coming down in, you know, no time, zero time at all. I mean, like you could blink and it was already there, you know what I mean? It was so ridiculously fast. I mean, and the turns that it made and the way that they moved were as far as I know, beyond the laws of physics, you know? So, I mean, it is to me amazing that there was another layer of physics that we haven't even achieved yet. And that we, you know, for me, it was an

6:06 open door to something new. So, you know, I was super excited about it. And then I went back to actually make a recording of it off the secret land, so on my secret computer so that I could keep, so I could study it and rewatch it. And by the time I got back down to the computer that I watched it on, because we had it downloaded onto that hard drive to make a copy, it was already gone. And you're talking about a part, or a lengthier version of the one that we see now. Yeah, it was a much, it was a much clearer video. It, you could see the shape of the ship, you could see it, you know, moving, you could see, you know, and what's funny is even when I think back to it, as indistinct as it was, it was completely discernible when you were seeing it. So, it was, and it moved, and I know it changed shape, but it's like, honestly, it's hard to remember.

7:07 Been a long time. Yeah. And before you saw that, because you said you saw it in real time, Commander Fravor didn't have the atfleer on his jet and his wingman, they were wings clean. Is there any, were you able to see any video from him, or did you hear his radio? I'm not sure exactly what plane the video came from, only that I actually got to see the video as it was being recorded. And it was the same video that was released. So, I mean, so one of the planes had to have been rolling. Yeah, and the second flight with the guy, Chad Underwood, he's the one that filmed it. Okay. So, after Fravor came back, he told those guys get a, get a pod, and then they went up and filmed it. Okay. So, then I wasn't even aware of Fravor's flight then. And you heard, do you hear the radio too? Any time I was in combat, I could, I could, I popped in. Any time it seemed like everybody was getting a little excited, I'd pop on and listen to what they were saying. And seeing the tracks, they would actually go faster than our pulses.

8:09 So, we were only seeing, it was, the tracks when you saw them, it would almost be like it was a, if you, if you could actually see the track in real time, it would have been like a dotted line. Because we weren't hitting it every time, because it was moving so quickly. But it, it was honestly amazing. And you guys, I mean, you weren't, you weren't the spy guy, so you weren't literally selecting one of the targets and then watching it? Or did you see the playback? No, we weren't the, the OS's deal with the consoles, the operational specialists. They, they, they're the console runners. We're the, we're the grunt techs. You know, we, we get to see all the backing, the back wiring and the, you know, the consoles. And, you know, we got access to CIC and we got the clearances to be everywhere, you know. So, I mean, I was just a fly on the wall the whole time, you know. So, so, I mean, I guess I'm firsthand witness to everything, you know. I mean, I was glued to those contacts. Every time there was a new one, I got excited, you know. And. What about, so you guys decide, hey, let's

9:10 go up on and look at these things through the big eyes. Tell me, describe what, what that day was like. Well, I mean, there was actually, they finally restricted it, but for a while we were just taking turns. I mean, there was just, everybody that was actually interested in it was just up there. And believe it or not, there was a good chunk of people that just pretended like it was just another day. And, and describe it, because I think that people that watch this don't know the structure of the boat and what those things, the, it's like a big mounted. Yeah. So if you go and if you look at the CG 59, the USS Princeton, you look at the Ford, the structure where the, where you actually see the glass for the bridge. So, and on both sides of the bridge, there's these platforms that jut out from left and right. And they have big eyes on them, which are big, huge, telescopic binoculars. And you have to actually go up and around

10:11 the bridge and get onto the bridge wing to actually look through them. So not everybody's going to go up there. And when you're out at sea, you kind of have to be a special kind of person to walk out on the bridge wing to look at them. And that's why after I had seen them a couple of times, I just kind of retired back to my own binoculars, which actually ended up being a clearer picture of them anyways. So how far away and describe what you saw through the binoculars? Through the binoculars, they basically just looked like little specks. Like, like you could see, you could see, you could tell, and it would just, they'd be there, then it wouldn't be. And then you'd see another one and you don't know if it's another one or if it's just the same one, but it just disappeared and then came back to the same spot. You know, so I mean, it's kind of like seeing a bunch of gnats, but you know that they're tracks and that they're large objects. You know, they're, they're, they're not just a, you know, just a random pattern in the sky. Did you try looking at them in the day or only at night?

11:11 I've seen, I tried looking at them day and night. I couldn't see them at night. During the day, I could see the specks. I could see them moving around, but you couldn't, you couldn't make them out at night. At least I couldn't. So, um, now with my binoculars, uh, I was able to see a little bit clearer, but still just kind of, it's kind of like if you're trying to look at a cruise ship while it's coming right over the horizon. You, you kind of, you know, it's a cruise ship. You can't tell what kind or, you know, it's a ship, but you don't know what kind it is. You don't really can't, you can tell you sell the general shape, but other than that, you couldn't tell anything real discernible about it. And it didn't matter how close they got. So going back towards the end of this thing where, you know, it was sort of the end of the sightings, um, you told me how you were part of a smash and crash team. And I wanted to like tie this into what PJ said, which was that these guys came and wanted to gain a custody of the bricks and so on. So, and you happen to be, you happen to see

12:11 the helicopter. So I was sitting behind the scratch, uh, smash and crash team when the, when we actually had a helicopter come on board. And I saw, uh, just plainclothes guys come on board, you know, just normal suits. Um, and a couple, you know, it looks like a couple of officers. Um, and then about maybe 15, 20 minutes later, I get called down to combat to sign over all of the data recordings. And they take, and they wiped CEC too. They didn't, they didn't, I don't know whether they remotely downloaded off CNC, but they wiped our CEC. We had to reload the whole thing, but you can ask PJ. It's a pain in the ass. I know you probably can't use that. So, so that, so, um, go back because I don't, I mean, I had to look it up and maybe just say what smash and crash, what that, why you were there. Uh, I was there because I was basically trying to be a part of the smash and crash team because you got extra money for it. I mean, I don't, I think just fine. Oh, so what they do is there, it's a bunch

13:12 of, it's a bunch of sailors, a volunteer to sit in the hangar in case the helicopter crashes. So if the helicopter crashes, uh, if the helicopter crashes, then we rush out and we start putting out fires, trying to, trying to pull people out of the wreckage, that type of thing. So it's, uh, matter of fact, Jason could tell you a lot more about it. He's, he was, he was on it for a long time. You know, me, I did it for a little bit for an extra money, just happened to be there that day. And, uh, but he, uh, he could tell you a lot more about the actual crash smash team. Great. So, and then was it common for guys to come in and ask for this stuff or? No, no, no. Uh, my tapes generally, they just get flipped over and erased and then written over. Um, the general information, cause other than when we went to, uh, if we did field testing, if we went out to the missile range, stuff like that, they'd come and take the tapes. But it was only for, to test, you know, for just basically environmental data, see how

14:12 well the systems work and stuff like that. Um, like he said, you know, sometimes the companies that, you know, built these machines would come in and take the tapes. Just for, you know, checking out how their systems are working. Um, and then the only other times that I ever had anybody come and take tapes was, uh, when we had a, uh, a drone crash into our ship. Uh, I, we, we were testing the, the sea whiz and sea whiz had chopped the chain on the, on the drone and it actually flew into our ship and crashed into our ship. So they wanted the tapes from that too. So, um, but it wasn't like this. And basically they waited until we hit port and then they came in, they just said, Hey, we just need the tapes for, you know, the, the drone crash. And, you know, we just handed them over to them. No bit, no chain of custody, no nothing. But in this situation, people came on board. There was a chain of custody. My chief, uh, came on, you know, got me. I had to sign chain of custody for them.

15:14 And basically I just signed my name and this person that picked it up, which I have no idea who they were, signed it and they took them. And I was told that if there was any other tapes to delete them, even if they're brand new. So I went through all of our tapes and I deleted absolutely everything. So where do you think that helicopter originated from? Uh, I would guess the Nimitz. I mean, it would have to have come from the Nimitz. I mean, I don't know flight operations. So, I mean, generally I'd be, I'd have to, it'd have to come from the Nimitz. I'm sort of using speculation and conjecture to put these guys or wanting chain of custody and taking this data and this intercept and the Hawkeye, you know, I'm putting those two together and saying, oh, they're related. It certainly seems that way to me, but do you, is there like any other, um, reason do you think they wanted that? That could have just been, are we putting

16:15 these two things together and maybe they aren't related? There's no way it couldn't be related. I mean, it's a very specific set of data about the same event. So, I mean, how do we think, or how do you think personally that these people got on board so fast after the incident? Would they have had to known before it even began and been sent out? Well, like what he didn't know is this, we'd been tracking them for days. I mean, the chain of command knew. So, I mean, there was plenty of time for these guys to get on board. There was plenty of time for the guys to come and, uh, over to the carrier, you know, even from the mainland. You know, we weren't really that far. We were within flight distance of islands that he could have easily, they could have come out. So, they had plenty of time to get out there. You know, so if they knew we were going to do an intercept and they knew that there could be a possibility of us actually having this flight data, then they would have been ready.

17:15 They would have already been there and ready to go to come, come get it. And then just personally outside of, you know, any experience in combat and that knowledge, what do you think that those objects were? Um, looking at an engineering and a physics standpoint, uh, I didn't understand how they could do what they did. And the only thing I knew that they were a technology that was far beyond anything that I knew about, that I even know about to this day. Um, I don't know where they're from, whether they're, you know, I don't really have a good working theory on it. And it's, it's, it could be just our government testing out pretty advanced tech on ourselves just to see whether or not it will work. You know, it could have been an advanced drone that we were, they were, they were testing. You know, it could have been some type of new, uh, you know, system to, you know, do

18:16 mock, you know, show us mock, mock, uh, sightings, you know, or, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot of things that I've thought about. It could be. So, I mean, there there's, I just try to think about it rationally. Um, you know, I don't want to jump to any conclusions. You know what I mean? I mean, it was just the only thing I can honestly say about it is just, it was just an amazing display of technology and whether it was a, a system that we were developing or something beyond that, you know, I, I'm not going to speculate on exactly its origins or anything like that, but it was, it was pretty amazing. Kevin said he had some profound after effects of looking at it through the big eye. You also had the exact same exposure, so to speak. Have you noticed anything? Um, not that I can really contribute to that. Um, honestly, uh, my whole time on that last deployment, uh, you know, we had, um, we had

19:18 a lot of stuff happen. And we had a lot of, you know, I had a lot of stuff happen to me in the service too. Um, so, you know, there's a lot of things that just war. Yeah. You know, when you know, you're responsible for literally thousands of people dying, you know, it's, you know, and a lot of things weigh on you. So it's just, uh, you just try to, uh, you just don't even, you don't even think about it. You just try to keep moving on. And I don't know if that, that particular event had any profound effect on me. I do know after the deployment and from the time I got out of the service, which was pretty soon after that event, um, I've been a much mellower person. You know, I, I have a very clear and defined way. I think I do think more organized, you know, I do think more rationally. I've always been a rational thinker, but I was, um, I, I did get a bit colder, but then

20:24 again, like I said, it could just be PTSD. You know, I, I don't know whether it was PTSD from other stuff in the service or whether it was just from that one event, but honestly, the event amazed me because I've been a skeptical believer my whole life and that there, there's advanced technology on this planet, you know, and it just, whether or not, you know, now I know that there's, you know, there's a whole nother layer of physics and, you know, and, uh, you know, engineering that just hasn't been touched yet. So, uh, do you think that there's other, uh, shipmates and other military personnel that were there and so on that even have like a more amazing story because they saw it close up or I would love to get one of the spy guys, you know, I mean, those guys worked directly on the system that tracked it. I mean, one of the few systems that I apparently, I mean, I mean, from what I understand, some of the systems couldn't see them, you know, a spy was able to see them bright as day. Can spot can spy create like a three dimension? I mean, that may be

21:24 classified. No, no, spy doesn't do three dimensions. Um, anything three-dimensional would have been had to use multiple ships data to make a three-dimensional picture, which is, you know, that's just a whole nother system. Yeah. That you can't talk about. Never can, right? Yeah. All right. I think I'm done. And you want to add anything I didn't ask you or that you wanted to talk about? Um, you know, I just would like to say that, you know, there was, you know, there was over 400 people on my ship and 5,000 people on the carrier. I mean, there's got to be some other people out there that, you know, can collaborate the story and, you know, fill us in where our memories failed us. I mean, this was 14 years ago. I mean, I could have gotten things wrong easy because we all remember things the way we want to remember them, you know? So because I want to believe in certain things, I'm going to remember it a certain way. You know, it's like for me, it was an amazing situation where I saw some crazy advanced technology that made my day. You know, to other people, it was a religious experience, you know? So I mean, everybody has a different outlook on what happened. So I

22:25 would love to hear and collaborate with, you know, anybody else that decides that they wanted to come forward. and, you know, discuss it and talk about it because, I mean, it happened. There was no, there's no ifs, ands, or buts of whether it happened or not. It did happen. So I'd love to know if there's anybody that does know more about it. So fill in our gaps. So if people, um, contact a non, a non at the nimitz encounters.com, I can put them in touch with you guys. Yeah, I'll talk to anybody that wants to talk, you know, even if they want to be off completely off the record and not talk to anybody that's making a film or or trying to do an interview if they just need to talk to somebody about it, you know, because I know like people like Kevin, it really deeply affected them. You know, I mean, literally affected every aspect of their life. Yeah. So there's got to be other people that are dealing with that same thing. So if they can, uh, you know, if they need it, they can, they can reach out.