EXCLUSIVE: Captain Ray Bowyer on his SHOCKING Encounter w/ MASSIVE UFOs, Alderney 2007 | UFO / UAP

0:00 Ray Bowyer is a former commercial pilot who had a famous UFO encounter in 2007 near Alderney in the Channel Islands. The UFOs, which each could have been up to a mile wide, were witnessed by multiple people and were caught on radar. Ray’s experience was detailed in his own words in Leslie Kean’s book “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go On The Record.” In this interview we discuss Ray’s UAP encounter in depth. Please see the description for relevant links and other interviews that you might enjoy. Ray to start us off can you please talk a little bit about your background and about your thoughts on the UFO phenomenon prior to your 2007 encounter? okay uh my background I was raised in a place called shorum by sea in Sussex uh I was born in the late 1950s and uh suppose we went through this standard educational system uh I went into engineering at the University of Sussex in uh 1974 and I was was there for three years and then moved on to another engineering company known

1:04 as Ricardo company 1927 limited uh researching into Diesel and petrol engines and from there on not long after I started a flying training uh to become a commercial airline pilot uh but the engineering background came in very useful in the flying game um and I did an approved course at CA civil aviation Authority approved course at uh a place called Goodwood in Sussex which you've probably heard of and uh it took should have taken three years to do that but it we managed to compress it into 19 months and from there on I went into the airline industry my first employer was a company called No which used to be cair before that and before that was Caledonian and before that it was Laker so dc1s and 737 Airline and unfortunately that year of the recession hit really hard and I was there for about six months and got laid off for the first time in 10 times

2:10 and uh over the years um I flew for I think I think arini where I saw the UFO encounter um I think that was my 13th airline in about in a very short period of time and I stayed with Ari for 10 years yeah so when did you started with Ari in 1999 that's right yeah 1999 got into ordinary in January of that year yeah a really we just starting to fly the S 340s which was an awful airplane and uh all the the training take up time wasn't available for me he had to do a particular amount of flying with a co- a co-pilot and that sort of thing so I sat and toled my some thumbs in ordinary for two months and uh that was quite fun because the pubs are quite good and with with if I'm pronouncing it right you were spending all of your time essentially flying around France the UK and the Channel Islands or where they have they they don't go further a field occasional charters

3:13 for mail uh at night into Bristol um I think I did the last trial and a flight into Gatwick Airport in uh in 2000 that was a medical evacuation and uh there must have been a couple of hundred people surrounding the aircraft in in Gatwick because they used you know 74s and 73s and everything else but this little tiny 18 sua was stuck in the middle of the airport with 2 people taking photographs of it so it's quite an unusual thing in those days to see a tri under in a big airport yeah yeah so tell me prior to 2007 yeah what were your what were your thoughts on UFOs UAP had you kind of Taken have you had you considered the phenomenon did you have any interest in it as a child or as a you know an adult prior to 2007 well I think generally speaking as a child you you know who watched programs like Star Trek and uh all the the plethora of other uh TV programs around at the time and I think my interest in it was fairly conclusively that there was something else apart

4:17 from us even as a a young boy I remember talking to people about you know 10 I was 10 years old or something in the 60s sort of saying you know what uh what what's going on in the world why are we the only people here so the general background for me was simply the fact that I thought there was something else out there but nothing more than that really then the moon landings appeared or did they um if you know what I mean uh did that happen I don't know but then that kind of raised another serious interestes in space flight and that sort of thing and aircraft my father was in the Royal air force during the second world war and uh we you know I liked aircraft and that's why I decided to get into flying um but I suppose my general feeling about UFOs or or unidentified flying objects or whatever you want to call them uh it was General and I think until I saw my first one which was uh going towards Southampton I don't think I've spoken to anyone else about this maybe I have uh but I was flying from Odin to Southampton in 2000 I think it was

5:21 20 2001 can't remember and uh at 5,000 feet and I saw this very uh sparkly tube In Front of Me Dead Ahead uh 12:00 I couldn't tell the range but it looked because the clouds are going behind it and then clouds are going in front of this tubular object very bright slight angle maybe 30° um it looked like a tube and it's sparkling very very brightly and uh I got towards it and I was think I looked through the binoculars at it which I always carry and uh I could see this s of I think it was rotating kind of slowly about a 30 Dee angle and then I got closer to it and I noted that beneath it was a British warship frigate and I didn't take the number know F maybe a 42 Springs to mine but underneath it there was a frig and stationary it wasn't underway and I thought that's odd that's

6:23 there I never seen a frig in this situation before it's about 2 miles south of the needles and then this sparkling object up above it and I getting closer and I was about to call it into to sampton uh uh air traffic control because it was immediately in front of me and it would have been in way I had to go around it um and then and the cloud in front of it and it just wasn't there anymore it just disappeared so I didn't call it in um that's my first experience of seeing a UFO so I'm not I'm not a virgin when it comes to when it comes to UFO sightings if you know what I mean so that's the first one I saw and I've only had two so right okay cuz yeah I was going to ask ask year if you saw anything yeah prior to 2007 and and so you've just answered whether you've seen anything since as well so that's it you sightings ever I mean it's two more than than than me so I mean I in terms of really conclusive sightings really interesting sightings well I have had another one since on the ground uh but iny but about that little later yeah yeah exactly we Circle back

7:23 to that um yeah so in 2000 you had yeah you were going similar Direction and everything like that as well same route different altitude because I was going to Southampton so that means 5,000 ft uh you know even all different when whichever direction you're going and you fly at a different flight level um in case anyone's going in any opposite direction they're going to miss you by being outside of that that certain altitude so 5,000 ft as opposed to 4,000 ft which was what I was flying out on the way back toward me with the second sighting in 2007 yeah and did did you feel like again we're going to get into the second sighting obviously in detail in a minute but did you feel like the the object was similar in the the first sighting and the second Sting the shape no was toally totally different uh absolutely different smaller I would say once again I couldn't see any shadow on the sea because the the clouds were disturbing when you get a shadow on the sea of an object in the air you can tell the size of it on the ground uh it's very difficult

8:27 to determine the size of an object when it it's actually Airborne I'll get into that little later on as well but I couldn't determine the size however interesting that evening I phoned my mother up in in BR in in h actually uh where she was living and uh I told her about this sighting this sparkly tube thing that I'd seen just uh south of the needles on the is of white and um I went to see her on the following week I think it was a Tuesday I went to see her on the Friday and um as soon as I walked in she gave me the local newspaper which is called the evening Argus in in Brighton and she said is this what you saw so I looked at this photograph of the of the in in the newspaper and it was it was identical and it was taken by um the Brighton police helicopter in black and white in color and they also filmed it and it's still online now you can still find it and the only reason this this chap the helicopter pilot published this was because he was retiring

9:30 the next day and he was out so he he didn't want to get the backlash of uh of still being in the service when you filmed that yeah so it is still in line now I saw it a couple of years ago um and it is exactly what I saw and there's a film of it over overhead of Brighton and the the palace Pier or the Brighton Pier whatever it's called now is behind it so it gives you some idea of scale and it wasn't that big probably I guess uh 50 to 100 F feet long and probably a diameter of around about 15 feet something like that so Pro still pretty hefty you know you would it on your foot but it's not not nothing in comparison to the main sighting that I saw in 2007 yeah yeah so about that frigate that was underneath it do you are you aware like I don't really know anything about the British Navy the Royal Navy or anything was that a frig something that would have any kind of nuclear capabilities or anything like that on board don't don't think then we're going back to well 23 years

10:32 ago now thereabouts uh that wouldn't have had any nuclear that would have been um all missiles there would have been air to surface air to air missiles on that um but why it was there and there was no tether if you know what I mean by that there no there's no rope or cable going to the ship there was nothing in the way but it was pretty quick it was only there for about a minute when I saw all that going on so uh that was pretty uh quick and I only managed to get the F the frig on the side of the ship before I went over the top of it and couldn't see the rest of the numbers I was quite busy looking at this uh this circular tube yeah that was spinning at 30 degree angles in front of my face so yeah that was pretty impressive how far away from you did you say you think it was the I think it was well because the clouds it's very difficult to determine how big a cloud is when you're flying you can't necessarily but the cloud in front Cloud's going behind and I reckon I was up to about a mile from it yeah wow yeah it's it's really interesting to

11:38 wonder was the frig there like checking out this this UAP UFO activity or is the UFO checking out the frig oh yeah was a frig in control of the UFO yeah or that that's my thinking that's what I'm thinking that what you you kind of speculate that that that possibly the frig was yet in in some way controlling the the object it could just be coincidental that that frig was uh anchored there for some reason I've never seen one there before or since so put it that way and I don't believe in coincidences yeah is really interesting um so let's move on to into your next encounter the one that's been that's been very publicized it's you said the one in 2000 you don't you haven't talked about it before publicly I think I've uh I think I've spoken about it to one or two other people but I don't think it's ever been published yeah I presume you're going to do that and I'm very happy for you to do that yeah yeah but this one the 2007 one obviously has been published across the world around the whole world and in a big way yeah yeah um basically it was just a a normal day

12:48 uh i' I've been doing this route for at that time about eight years the route that I would fly at the trial under would be I was actually based in gy at that point I wasn't based in ory and I'll be going from um G to Jersey regularly Jersey to Dina not quite as regularly and then gy to uh ay and then onto Southampton and it was one of those days so I come up um from gy to Orin in landed and had a cup of tea or whatever and uh then the passengers were loaded on and up we went to Southampton for the I don't know how many thousands of times I've done that route but it was just a standard day so was a it a nice day High Cloud uh bit of overcast at around 10,000 ft so there's no direct sunlight and um and I I think I had nine passengers going to Southampton and uh it's just a normal flight pretty calm and landed in Southampton and uh discharg the passengers and

13:50 at that point we weren't going inside to get the paperwork to get the load sheets the load sheet was brought out um pretty much with within I didn't I didn't take any fuel I uh and uh the passengers are board out and off we went so it was a southernly departure uh from memory on uh from Southampton which is a north south Runway and climbing through about 2,000 ft uh we transferred uh to uh Southampton approach and then pretty much straighten the level in the cruise almost directly to ainy we transferred to London TMA um London Air Traffic Control if you like and uh stayed with them until about getting just across the ISA white which is around uh about 50 miles south of Southampton airport so we're in the cruise now 4,000 ft had about 10 passengers in the back and

14:52 uh just as I went across to London from London rather to Jersey control which is getting into the their area I noticed that there was quite a bright light somewhat similar to the one that we just been discussing in the the tubular uh UFO um there's another light very similar but I didn't didn't associate it as being anything more than a reflection from a greenhouse probably in in gery the green houses that they called vineries and they grew thousands of tons of tomatoes back in the day and of course the light would shine from the Sun and cause you see it in cars you see in houses and all but the light was reflecting what I thought was off the roof of a the glass roof of a vinery and sort of didn't make take any notice of it because they disappear the angle between the Sun the the viny and the aircraft changes so I didn't take any more notice of it and another few seconds later looked again and it was still there but that'll disappear in a minute and uh it

15:58 didn't it just stayed in exactly the same spot as as it was so I thought I wait a minute let's have a let's have a little look at this so once again met trusty binoculars after six or seven years came out of the bag and I had a look at it and I thought this has got a definite shape to it it's not just a flash of a greenhouse roof it's got a physical shape so I waited and had another look at it and got a bit closer to it it's not getting much bigger so it's not very big or it's not it's either not very big or it's a long way away So eventually I'm getting closer and closer to it it's getting a little bit bigger I didn't need binoculars for much longer my eyesight's pretty good um so I called it in to Jersey and and uh the controller there said I said it's uh Aline 543 M flight number now um I've got uh an object my 12:00 deae head can you have a look on radar please to paraphrase I've got all the audio recordings you yeah and it last about 15 minutes

17:05 the whole the whole encounter uh and he said nothing on radar so all right so it's me probably misconstruing what I'm looking at all right and I'm getting close another minute or two goes by I'm having another look through the binoculars and the chat sat behind me because this is an open cockpit aircraft I can see from my flying positions right way to the back roow which is 18 passengers when it's full up um it's an open cockpit and a chat sat behind me um I said what are you looking at I said well you have a look and he he had a look through the binoculars at this what was becoming clear that was a physical object in the air he said wow what is it I said well I'm not exactly sure so um he seemed a bit shocked at that thinking that I should know exactly what it was but of course I didn't I had no idea i' never seen anything like it before so we're getting close now that's 5 minutes gone by and then the people satting sat uh behind this fellow in row

18:06 three if you like of nine uh they could see what was going on but the airplane FES slightly nose up so people people further back than that wouldn't be able to see what was ahead but they could Kon John Russell they saw and I knew them quite well and they saw what was going on John's color blind um and Kate could see perfectly well and and he said what's that what's that orange object ahead he thought it was orange but he's color blind so but it was really brilliantly sparkling almost unbearable to look at it was so bright it was ridiculous I've never say anything it's bright it is brilliantly bright but it didn't uh affect your eyes like the sun does when you look away uh very very uh colorful um but we're good getting closer to it now so six seven minutes and I I said spoke to the chap in Jersey air traffic uh I said look if there's definitely something hit still here so

19:09 he said okay I'm going to remove the filters and this sort of thing and he said I've got some anpr your 10:00 High an appropriation which is um uh an anomaly that you get through radar and I said no it's not that I I'm looking and they said to me how far away do you think it is and I said well it's probably around s miles from what I'm looking at what I didn't know was when I first saw it it was over 50 miles away now that's unusual and I've done a lot of night flying and freighting and all sorts of stuff at night and you can see uh for example I used to do a flight from gatway up to edor um and you can see the city on a clear night from 50 60 miles away just the glow of lights and it looked just like that it looked in a very similar different color because the lights in cities are tend to be yellow and an orange because of the sodium lamps but this was a different thing but it was I didn't realize that it was over 50 miles away when I first saw it so that's the intensity of the light and also showed some idea of the size of it because it was a physical

20:13 you can see the shape this uh 15 to1 aspect ratio sharp at the ends 15 times higher in the middle and this dark band on the side of it what appeared to be the side I don't know if it was oval round flat got a clue because there was no no sunshine shining on the actual object but I could get if it was if the shadow was on the sea I'd be able to get I'd be able to determine roughly the size of it but there was no no sun above and I was thinking if there was no sun above because it was completely overcast high level how could it be reflecting off a greenhouse roof because there was no Sun shining in gery so it's all kind of coming into my head now and I'm thinking this is definitely something in the way because it was once again it was dead ahead or appeared to be and but I didn't realize that we weren't 7 miles away from it we were still around 40 m away so this thing's big I'm calling it into to this traffic BL and the chap in Jersey said okay I've taken the filters up now you've got a bit of an an appropriation on your upper left but I do

21:16 have a contact on your slightly to your right um at so many 40 40 miles away I said Well it can't be that it's too far I was I didn't say that but it it's too far away but it was that was the first object that I saw so we're continuing along it's just about six or seven minutes into the into the first point of sighting and it's getting bigger so once again binoculars went away when I'm talking to air traffic and he the chapion air traffic in Jersey is asking a 146 jet uh flyby I think from gery to see if they could see anything from above and I think it was below their nose so they could they couldn't see over the nose of their aircraft to see what was basically literally underneath them so they they didn't have any contact and they put out a general court in the area and the uh blue Islands jet stream 32 coming in from the is of man South towards Jersey um he called

22:23 in and he said I've got a contact I may have got a timeline slightly wrong here but it wasn't far off um he's looking over his left shoulder who the captain of the aircraft um uh in his 7 o00 really looking right behind he had the contact he could see the first object that I saw which then was between gery and Aly and going quite close towards casz Rock uh and so I didn't know that that was on a different frequency I hadn't didn't hear that until that was on a jersey approach uh I'm still with Jersey Maine and we're we're going uh still flying at 4,000 ft now there's no point in using binocular anymore because this thing was just there it was right there and how big was it uh I've always said it's been about a mile long um and really looking at the radar Trac that I've still got which printed out at the time uh it does appear to uh agree with that but perhaps we'll

23:27 talk about that in a minute um start getting close and it is actually about 10 miles north of Al now where it's time for me to descend uh less than 500 fet a minute to stop people's ears hurting it's an unpressurized airplane so I'm starting to go down and uh approaching it getting closer and closer to this thing I realize it's slightly off to my right now as I as I maintain uh the same is it I can't remember the I think it's 2 38 degrees I'm coming down I'm coming down we're getting to towards 2,000 ft and that is the beginning of the top of the haze layer a haze layer exists when you get a different density of or or different conditions maybe salty salt in the atmosphere and it's very difficult to see through a haze layer it's easy to see up from underneath the haze layer and it's easy to see from above the haze layer but as I went through the haze layer this thing started to get less and less visible and I estimated I was about 8 miles away from when I last saw it

24:29 and descended into Ordy then looking up through the haze layer again through this fairly thick piece of atmosphere I couldn't see it anymore and and I made a normal approach and landed in Aly thinking what on Earth was that sort of thing yeah wow just that was the first part of it and uh when we landed a taxied in and said to any of the passengers if they'd like to if they think they've seen anything unusual during this flight without trying to lead anybody would you like to go inside and perhaps report it to the desk um and and see you know if you want to do that you're very welcome the chap I gave the binoculars to didn't do that I think he was on a bit of a clan Des time visit to be honest know whatever he was doing he he never he never appeared again but uh uh the two sa in Row 3 they did report it and that's been widely publicized as well it's pretty much exactly what I saw and except for John who's color blind he got a different color that's that's the way

25:34 it is so I landed and the people went off and I had I went in and I I thought I got I got to make a report here I got to this has to be done it's it's in class a controlled airspace that airspace definition has changed now it's not Class A it's class G these days uh but Class A is the same as Heath Ro gwick and the only other place in un was a Channel Islands so it's the most highly surveilled airspace in British airspace mhm and so I got to make a report it's that's what you got to do if there's something in controlled airspace it shouldn't be there there's one thing I forgot to mention on the way down into me I spotted a second object exactly the same shape but a lot further away uh that was down towards gery which was another 20 miles away but it was exactly the same shape the same sparkly sort of brilliant white and both of these objects had this U lateral bar they appeared uh perfectly horizontal but two-thirds of the way back there was this dark bar and there was

26:42 an interface between the dark bar and the main body of The Craft it was sparkling just like the the one I saw over the aisle of white it was sparkling in this little small area between the brilliance and the darker area uh and both of them were exactly the same now I estimated the one they were they were about 20 miles apart and looking at the radar information they were a lot closer than that when they first suddenly appeared at the same second and disappeared at the same second and they were moving away from each other at around about 12 knots so having landed in orderly um I went inside and I made a report um which went to the Royal Air Force or Ministry of defense and also to Jersey air traffic control and they they sent a copy to the ministry of Defense as well and then I was du I was scheduled to do the next flight which is back to Southampton I'm exactly the same

27:44 rout with an next set of passengers I'm thinking hang on a minute the last time I saw this huge huge piece of Kit was exactly where I'm going to be taking off into into the the haze layer which I can't see through um it's it's going to be an interesting flight if it's still there yeah so anyway we loaded up and got going and got airborne and just going through the haze laay there was nothing there it had gone it had disappeared and so had the other one which was much further south yeah and that flight carried on and continued normally into Southampton wow yeah that's wild you you must have been yeah pretty nervous going up the second time like to fly back you must have been I can imagine all over the place yeah I've said this before if I'd have been empty coming back from Southampton to Aly I would have landed on it there's no doubt about it I would I would have tried or got very very close whether I'd have got radiated or not I have no idea but I

28:46 would have got a lot closer but you got to think of the passengers you know they're they're paying for their safety and yeah I couldn't guarantee that if we wouldn't had one landed on top of it it was huge it was so big but I couldn't tell whether it was a needle point where it's a flat plane whether it was oval if it was square box with a pointed end no no shadow on the sea so I couldn't determine the actual size of it but yeah it was that was an impressive day out there's so many like questions I I have about it all it's so fascinating and so so the two craft that you saw you you obviously you don't have much to you know compare it to much to get the the relative size and everything like that but do you from from your perspective do you think that they seemingly were both the same shape and probably same size yeah absolutely uh as I mentioned a minute ago they were uh they appeared and disappeared at the same second yeah so what do you make of that that's

29:46 wild well they're working with each other you know this is this is a sentient operate Sally being operated crew of two different types of aircraft now whether they're from offworld or whether they're military still don't have the answer to that I would suggest that the military would know better than to put two experimental craft in class a controlled airspace I think they'd know better than that unless they wanted someone to see it and start the the program going you know this sort of uh the theory that these things are coming and they wanted this slightly more publicized um getting into the mainstream media all over the world which is where it went and also it was the one of the most studied cases as far as I know the only thing we didn't have was actual photographs and ridiculously I just got a new phone and it took photographs didn't have a photograph it didn't have a phone before that it took photograph so I forgot basically uh but yeah that's the only

30:47 thing we didn't have was photos but yeah okay because I did I saw a couple online and I just wasn't sure if they were legitimate or you know act like actually from somebody that was on the I'll send them to you off there just in case it's going to be like oh wow that's exactly what I saw but yeah I definitely wasn't sure about the uh the authenticity I saw a few mockups you know some sort of cartoon type things the Sun newspaper in England had this double page spread of this massive gr thing and a little tyy TR Lander next to it was quite fun but yeah they were they were definitely operated by uh they were under sentient control I think and they were deliberately at 2,000 ft both of them to be in the top of the haze layer so he could only be seen from above from the side you can't see and From Below unless you're directly underneath he wouldn't be able to see up through an angle towards that level so I think there was some sentient control in that attitude the actual fact that they were at that level to remain invisible now there were there

31:48 was a conversation with two people that were walking in the island of sag holiday makers and they reported it to the hotelier but they had seen uh this one of these objects towards Aly which is exactly where it was and uh the hotel manager called it into the local radio station um but those two people never came forward now the other pilot that saw it whilst Airborne flying for blue Islands uh and this is relatively common um that his company said that you mustn't report this they think you nuts so even even though is in class a controlled airspace and it must must be reported there's no argument uh this this is what you have to do um he didn't report it due to the fact that he he would have got fired if he talked about it now this you're getting this all over the world especially in ohare airport you know where this huge ufu just went up through the that was a few months before as well wasn't it I think it was it was it was pretty close too yeah and

32:53 and uh so all the people on the ground were don't talk about it none of the other Pilots don't talk about it you get fired uh it's an end of career report I didn't even think about that because this is just what you have to do yeah but yeah uh two two craft they arrived I can find out the actual SEC minutes and seconds they they appeared at exactly the same moment and they just appeared they didn't like speed into frame they just kind of no I can't say that um it was visible when I got up to altit so I can see it from out of the ground Haz into Southampton uh on the way to ory uh but on the radar they appeared at the same second and disappeared at the same second it about over I think it's an hour and five minutes they were on radar for Wow and moving away from each other at about 12 knots yeah and one heading north northwest and one heading heading South Southwest

33:53 so they're moving at slight angle away from each other the southern most one not far off the coast of the northern tip of gy and the northermost one was overhead overhead quite important of uh the rocks at cascade's Lighthouse now one of the reports said it was a ship that was reflecting the radar from gery and Jersey there's no way a ship will be able to fly over a lighthouse yeah that was one of the one of the reports that came out yeah yeah it'd be doing pretty well to do that um and so from your perspective it looked like they were hovering essentially stationary the entire time that you were seeing them and but on but according to the radar yeah they were kind of slowly trickling away from each other these giant objects just slowly huge objects yeah absolutely and of course when you're when you're flying when you're flying in something's doing six or 10 knots it's impossible to to see that yeah yeah especially something of that size um and

34:53 so yeah back to the size then like how so you're very conf confident that they were that kind of size like when we we're talking about a mile long probably well I can I can give you an example of that uh when um when a little while later another reporter whose name I can't remember now uh made available a trip to Jersey air traffic control and where the main head was there were two heads two radar heads scanning the same sky and they they linked together in a jersey Air Traffic Control mhm and that's where the Vera radar was stored a very ancient system noncompatible with Windows or any of the other platforms but they said yeah come down and and have a look and we got this replayed this screen on on the main screen replayed the tape and it physically was a tape you know it wasn't a a hard drive or like that so there it was playing away and when you when it was sped up speeded up uh you can see these two things going away from each other and each time the

35:55 radar passed through it you got a time noted on on the screen um so they took some of the times off of it because it was all conglomerated into one math so you could see the individual times on it and on one of the sweeps from the Jersey head which was 20 miles away I forget the frequency that the signal goes in and goes out and goes in the actual radar Reflections come come back on one of the sweeps just one of the sweeps it hit the same object which was the UFO closest to cascet three times on one of on one of the sweeps and from that he estimated that that would be for three strikes to hit the same object and and reflect back to the head that would be at least a mile long yeah so that that was the technicians uh thinking so wow from that I got I mean I was pretty sure it was massive because you cannot see something from 50 miles away you can't see it you can't you can't even see a ship a big tanker he'd just about possibly make it out with binoculars

36:59 but something that big from 50 Mi away which I didn't realize was 50 Mi I thought it was 7 or8 miles exactly comping for me yeah yeah yeah and I did say the air traffic controller ask how big is it this is a jersey air traffic controll he said how big is I said it's about the size of a 737 now that's about what 150 ft long not 6,280 ft long which is a mile um that's what it was that's how big it was I'm sorry 6000 on8 is it naal Mar yeah got that wrong but anyway it was big massive both of them both of them huge both of them working with each other uh and both appearing and disappearing at the same second yeah and um when you look through the binoculars you said you saw like this definite outline and everything like what do you recall like when when I say that now do you kind of go there in your head are you seeing what you saw then do you do you remember in that much detail was it like metallic the you know anything like that yeah well when I first saw it I

38:01 thought and I remember saying to myself thinking to myself that's odd yeah and I've seen lots of weird things uh Venus I thought was an airplane coming towards us I going to Brussels one day and I could see this aircraft with the landing lights coming straight towards us and it was Venus you know um and I I've flown through a swarm of bees and the whole aircraft was completely covered in bees you know no way so and I got stuck with lightning a few times you know but uh doesn't do any well crack the wind screen but um assum quite a few twice on the same night that was we got stop lightning coming out of Brussels into Birmingham but anyway had to do a compass swing in uh uh in in Zant in Belgium and then we flew back and got struck again cracked the wind screen but that must have been terrifying well it's over it's it's done it's done on a second you know don't really but swarm of beads is quite fun because see this brown Mass on what on Earth is and then and it just covered the whole aircraft in these so I've seen some other things yeah and I've seen lots of

39:03 things at night from far away which the city looks almost the same shape as UFO because you're seeing it at a slant angle you're seeing a city from the side you know 50 60 miles away and that's pretty much how it looked but this was a brilliant white and you can look at it but it didn't it didn't stay in your eyes it's a really strange thing to try and explain but it didn't if you look at the sun briefly you got the shape of the Sun in your eyeball for a couple of minutes afterwards you don't want to do that to anybody at home listening in don't look at the Sun but uh with this particular object it didn't have anything like that it just uh was brilliant and you could still look at it it's amazing most the most amazing thing actually I've ever seen I think really yeah and the the thing that you described about you know like the you had the darker area and the lighter area and you had the kind of this border thing with the you said sparkling in in the in the chapter in Leslie Kane's book UFOs you described it as like um a pulsating layer with sparkling

40:06 Blues greens and and other colors strobing up and down every second or so have you ever seen anything like that before or after no I wondered if it was something to do with the propulsion system afterwards but I didn't really have time to think it lot lot goes on when you're flying you know think where you are where you going what the conditions are get the weather blah blah uh but I didn't but afterwards when I thought about it I wondered whether it was something to do with the propulsion system there was no visible uh antenna there was no visible engines it was just a shape 15 to1 aspect ratio in the sky with this uh along the side of it about that width you're looking at a craft that long and about that width with this sparkling interface between the main yellow and this dark band and I wonder whether that was something to do the pulsing system I don't know uh there was nothing visible that would enable it to move there no winds it was just there and it's like an anti-gravity machine moving very gently North uh but that interface was very prominent on

41:13 both of them and the one that I saw was still 20 miles away you could still see the same band on that on that aircraft and that was speculation at the time that it may have been some light anomaly where you get some refraction in a particular type of light a lens lenticular clouds and and all that sort of thing but lenticular clouds don't give off a radar reflection yeah i' never heard were there any any other like really interesting kind of features or elements about this so one of them would be the fact it was so bright and Brilliant and yet it didn't hurt your eyes one would be this kind of sparkling strobing pulsating band was there anything else that that kind of jumped out at you like as obviously the size and the fact that just sat there in the air and everything like that but was there any other little detail that's maybe something that's been overlooked you feel or or an important detail I I don't think so I thought about it an awful lot what more happen that day and uh I I think I don't think so if if it would have been fantastic if there had been a sun shining on top of it because then we could have made out on the sea how big it was compared

42:17 to a rock or a ship or something like that you'd have something in comparison yeah but no there was nothing uh nothing more than that yeah and so we say about a mile long what what do you do you know what the biggest human-made craft is that like the the publicly known about human well I was at that time they were building the uh the Queen Elizabeth or Queen Mary whatever it was the aircraft carrier okay building building two I think uh huge huge expense a billion so many hundreds of billions of pounds and that was I think it's a thousand feet long so about a sixth of a mile and that's enormous and I think the biggest super tanker at that time was about half a million tons and that was like 1500 feet long something like that or 2,000 feet so not even a third of a mile I don't know uh of anything bigger uh but certainly nothing of a mile L that's ever been built that's

43:17 got Airborne yeah we're talking about ships okay it ship can you know it doesn't need propulsion to keep it in the air but the these were big and an Airborne as well yeah yeah yeah it's uh it's wild and so just remind me of the duration so you saw how long did you watch the objects for and then how long after you lost contact like after you landed how long did they zip leave okay well I I saw the whole thing it was about 13 minute 13 and so odd minutes yeah uh on on the air traffic control recordings but I had seen it before that before I called it in for about three or four minutes I'm estimating roughly my sighting would have been 17 minutes yeah of the same object and then 50% along that road was the other object as well thrown into the mix so 17 minutes but the actual the actual uh radar i' have to remind myself of this but I think it was an hour and four minutes hour okay that they were they were Vis they were visible to radar and then as I say gone

44:22 yeah and arrived at the same second and then gone at the same second so they're working together so again with the radar they just totally blipped out they didn't like just move super fast and it was like hard for the radar to keep up they just or you said it's with the re like the reads right so they it kind of does that sweep and then another sweep so but actually that's quite a little bit of an interesting story with that one is the fact that when we went down to see the radar tapes uh they gave me some hard copies of the what they could see I've still got the printed pieces of paper um bit difficult to see these days cu the Ink's gone a bit wild but anyway I've still got those and uh the I think it's about 2008 this is maybe a year or maybe two years after the sighting they replaced that radar system the Alvera system with a more modern synthetic type of radar much better if you like and they Chu the old radar away and all the tapes we thought yeah

45:22 but uh one another one of the Gan one of the Gan investig the French group went to Jersey and I found the old air traffic patroller where another air traffic controller thought that the first air traffic controller kept the tapes in his shed in the garden and it turned out that he had so he very kindly gave them to Gan which is the French investigative group and they've had them now for well must be 12 years and they've managed to synthesiz size all that information onto a Windows platform and but frame by frame by frame by frame and taken a long time to do it and they've come back with so much more information that actually wasn't visible on on that screen in those days yeah and they're now getting to many many other other objects very tiny objects that were in the same sky at the same time possibly interacting with these other two very large L ships now their

46:27 investigation is ongoing um I'm not I wasn't able to contact them they wented a zoom call a little while ago I think won't go into that but anyway uh they have got much more information and I think they're pretty much going to be ready to publish in the middle of 24 2024 uh with with a lot of other in and they they' managed to get altitude details from some of these objects which are 60,000 ft I mean we don't have airplanes that can go to 60,000 ft we did have have Concord but uh not very many others and these are tiny things that are going backwards and forwards and all over the shop so this information I think is going to be coming out within the next year or two yeah I can't be more specific than that but yeah they're really digging into it deep yeah well that's good that people are digging into it and those so these little objects they they were they thought they they think they might have been interacting with the giant objects that you s there's possibility there were satellites yeah acting with it or some kind of probe or something yeah yeah but not one or two they're looking 50 or 60 or hundreds you know uh I haven't got the full information chaps

47:34 English isn't very good but I mean I'm getting I'm getting voice calls but yeah they're getting there and I think it's going to be quite eye opening when they get the full information yeah wow well I look forward to to that coming out and but you you didn't see any anything other than the two big you didn't see like oh you know oh was that something no maybe maybe not no there was cloud cover at 10,000 feet over the whole area so and I think as I understand a lot of this stuff was going on much higher than that yeah yeah um so probably in the troper PS sort of area okay so you said about 60,000 something like that 50 50 odd 60 one of the objects he mentioned was at 60,000 ft now how they get that information I don't know but yeah he said there's but not just one there was a lot yeah yeah maybe they've had access to different kinds of data radar data I don't know that be that' be interesting to see what comes out with that um so again it was an intimate little plane like an 18 SE there was what nine people I think you said on board or is it 10 with you

48:37 or nine with you or you know I think it was 10 including yourself something like that anyway give or take a person yeah nine or 10 um so yeah it was intimate you you there's no divider between where you're sitting and where they are so I'm I'm again you said that you kind of let the guy use your binoculars and you're you're talking but initially you said you didn't want to draw their attention to it or kind of freak them out so flying while I was flying that wasn't my objective it when I got onto the ground what I said I didn't want to lead anybody okay unusual did you see anything unusual you know so that would say you might done I go and report it but if they didn't um yeah I would I didn't want to push anybody in the way you know got you got you so who the kind of the the first person to bring it up when you were in the sky was it you that said to somebody like do do you see this or did they then bring it to you and and what was the General kind of chitchat what was being said what was the vibe with the passengers were they you know were they

49:38 scared were they intrigued were they excited was there any you know well as I mentioned aircraft flies like that it's a bad design so it's Prett slow because of that uh so the people below Row three were would be below the height of the front wind screen they would be a to see forward yeah um but the vibe was uh from John and and Kate these are people in row three they were pointing out to other people behind them yeah what they could see but the people behind them couldn't see it because their airplane flies like that did they not want to get up and I would have been like trying to get up and go a bit closer to have a look well you've got about six inches headro in thate above you so he wouldn't not a to get up I mean there's no aisle there just two bench seats like you get in a 2cv you know a car so uh there was there's no way they could actually might been able to do that possibly but uh yeah um the general Vibe was what's going on in the airplane because these two people were and and a fellow with the binoculars behind me they were all chatting about it what the

50:39 hell is that and that sort of thing so the general Vibe was that but it it was calm it was peaceful you know what are you gonna do about it nothing yeah there's nothing you can do about it you know just avoid hitting it that's my that was my main concern don't hit it yeah yeah that would have well don't don't hit it with passengers on board like I said I would have landed on it otherwise yeah so you you really would have wanted to go and get as close as you could otherwise and I think like David fraver had that same kind of intrigue right with his 2004 the nimit uh encounter okay where he wanted to get as as close as he could and you know at least get above it and have a look down yeah have a look down on the top there was 4,000 ft if I look down on the top you could see some idea of the shape but uh I don't think company would have been terribly well impressed that uh nine of its passengers got radiated to death including the pilot so I we don't know that that didn't happen yeah yeah and you are you still in touch with you said you you knew I think Kate

51:40 and John was it Russell said you kind still here I still bump into them in a shop do you do have you kind of I yeah that's cool have you kind of shared your kind of speculations about the event like um I'm sure we we did that on on so many television programs or recorded programs we probably haven't we just say hello yeah that happened 16 years ago you know um that's life yeah but we moved on from that really yeah but it's I guess it's still a shared event that you have um it's strange because a lot of people have forgotten about it and a lot of people have never heard about it because they're younger uh or weren't interested at the time so it still comes out the woodwork every now and again it pops up like yourself and every sometimes I it's really strange actually what happened a few years ago uh and it was it was like it was coordinated I had three independent groups one from Holland and two one from Canada and one from USA uh well-known media uh institutions

52:43 like Discovery for example called me on the same morning on the same day within a period of an hour and contacted me now Telly that's not coordinated so I just wanted to get more in in your head when you kind of when you're first seeing the object and you're you know you're flying towards it um I think in a couple of interviews I watched some of the older interviews and one of them they were trying to you know get a sound bite out of you and they're like were you scared come on were you scared and I think you said uh wasn't very happy one of them you said I wasn't very happy and I was pleased to get on the ground and get a cup of tea in in another one you kind of either said you were a bit frightened or you implied it was a bit frightening or something like that um but anyway what yeah can you elaborate on what was going on in your head what were your emotions doing cuz I know that I would probably be my mind would be running you know race loops around a race track just overthinking and like what because you as you said with flying you've already got so much going on in your mind to think about and then all of this too and you you're probably the human brain is crazy you're going to be speculating and drawing hypothesis and things so yeah but

53:47 my uh the flying is automatic because when you done something it's like driving your car to work you don't even remember the journey you don't you don't you know it's just automatic yeah I've done it so many times but there are things you have to take care of uh is business but um my main concern was what happens if it just took off and came straight towards us uh did it have massive speed capability could it just go sideways or could just disappear up I don't care about that but what if it came towards us what would I what will I do will I dive will I just put the nose forward down because that's nasty way to go go down and he might take the Wings off so you probably go upside down and you know fly inverted away from it if there was time could it do a th000 miles a second if if if so you're dead uh but it didn't it just stayed there happy in its whatever it was doing I don't know what it was doing surveilling not sure but it didn't move but my main worry was that and

54:48 also on on departure again on the third flight the fourth Flight of the day going towards it and it being in in you know just as you go through the Hazel there it is what are you going to do then so those are my thoughts at the time really but the flying is just kind of automatic you just get on with that yeah yeah but you were having thoughts of yeah taking like what if I need to take evasive action exactly go what would I do yeah yeah yeah I hadn't really even thought about it like that but now you say it I'm like yeah that's of course it's totally obvious that would be what you'd think as the pilot in charge of the plane with the you know these people's lives on board well I've flown many maneuverable airplanes and this this this particular airliner three engines three pistol engines very slow very heavy uh is not very maneuverable unless is empty so yeah would have to think ahead if if it did start coming even gently towards you 100 knots or something you're going to have to make a decision to turn left and go down here fast yeah to get underneath it because we're at the same level for a time yeah anyway like that really that that would

55:51 have been a whole totally different encounter if it had come towards you you had to take a face of action that would have been something um how many witnesses came forward overall do you do you have a number off the top of your head because I know it was you the other pilot there was at least one radar operator there was the two passengers the person that saw it from a hotel is it six or is there more that's it that's it that's it that's a lot yeah unfortunately no no no photographic evidence unfortunately but the radar is in my humble opinion pretty conclusive yeah and also the cting from the other Captain yeah so yeah you have the radar and and obviously which tracked them for longer than you were able to keep an eye on them that you have all these various different witnesses that yeah just coming from different angles from different backgrounds different levels of you know expertise of looking at something in the sky um yeah it's really fascinating so it must be one of the most kind of corroborated and and evidential UFO encounters on record I suppose I think it was because I had contacts from all over the world to do a survey

56:55 of the whole flight you know an audit effectively yeah and uh one particular study group in Ham's Sheffield H University stood out and uh I said yeah okay I'm happy to work with you and they did massive calculations Reflections from uh lakes in France uh all manner of type of different types of weather uh refraction from the Sun ref reflection off the sea from the Sun but it wasn't any sun all different sorts of studies 150 odd pages and the conclusion was we don't know what it was that was a that was a conclusion but this chap this uh the doctor involved did speculate quite firmly that he thought the radar traces were Reflections from the size of ships but there were no ships in that area at the time and also as mentioned previously the one closest to me was overhead of cascet lighthouse on a big rock when I last saw it yeah so and I'm no expert but I think as you're

57:57 traveling forwards and as you're descending and everything like that like if it was a reflection it's going to the Ang the vantage point is going to change and so that reflection is going to change and at some point it's going to be like oh yeah it was a ship you know you're going to have that moment of realization or even when you get below the haze layer and you're like oh that that ship's Right Where I Was ah okay that that ship is directly overhead of the lighthouse that's what it was yeah yeah no no way it it was crap it was already already hit the rocks of the lighthouse um so when again when you're looking at this I'm thinking mostly about the first object but it could apply to either when you're kind of having that extended 10 to 15 17 minute period where yeah you're looking at it did you have any sense that it was you know that it attempted to interact or that it knew you were there or was there there was nothing that it did that gave you that impression or anything like that it would appear that my little uh fly of trianda uh Britain Norman trianda

58:57 didn't have any effect on it whatsoever I don't think it was terribly interested in us it wasn't too worried about avoiding you no I was terribly interested in it but not the other way around yeah yeah I suppose the only thing that could sense that like not necessarily that it that it knew you were there but that it was aware that you know there were people around is like you said earlier staying in the haze layer um to kind of reduce visibility um so which also raises a speculation if it stayed in the haze layer to reduce visibility why would it be in class a controlled airspace yeah it just doesn't make any sense if only we knew so yeah so you get off the the flight you report it almost instantly you you suggest to the passengers if they saw something they should report it what was the process of reporting it like um did people take you serious from the off in those days in those days it was a report form and I drew a little picture on bottom of the report form which has all been published and that was sent off to Jersey air traffic have you got

1:00:00 the copy of your picture and stuff yeah yeah I got all that if you can send it to me that'd be great okay yeah yeah I'll send you a scan I'll send you a scan of everything I've got and amazing thank you uh that went off to the ministry Ministry of defense and they're not interested yeah this is not a threat to UK airspace so that was the official line on this yeah and the French military this is not a threat a threat to French airspace um so the thing was though I don't know if you know this at that time when it was class a uh the airspace above 19,500 ft belonged to the French after 9:30 at night and before and and before 6:00 in the morning so they the whole thing was French okay and then they weren't interested either so uh yeah it there's the thing I've said many times before they they knew they know about this phenomena it's going on and ignore it they know about this phenomena and they can't do anything about it mhm they know about this phenomena and

1:01:04 they're working with it now one of those three is correct I haven't yet worked out which one I'm suspecting is number three yeah that's obviously the the hardest to wrap our minds around working with it yeah yeah do you have any kind of speculation in what in what sense that that would be or is that it's already kind of I guess well okay so so since since the sighting I got invited to go on these American speaking tours and make a lot of money and all that sort of thing I said no because it just demeans the whole sighting it demeans the whole it takes the value Away by by earning money off of it people can say you know you're lying because you're earning money which is fair comment so I didn't want to do that uh but I did go to Washington on in 2007 to to speak with um uh J James uh Fox and did did a program and did a speech at the Press Club in Washington and uh

1:02:05 that was valid but from that meeting I met so many other people that put me on different paths in all different directions not only in the eupo world but banking Med medical uh money uh everything you can think of that started from that meeting in I think it is October or November of 2007 in Washington DC uh wonderful people um great place to visit I don't want to go there today I hear it's slightly dangerous today um but that's where the rest of the information that I study today especially in the banking industry the revaluation the currency and all that that's where it all came from but to to to sit down and have a a chat with abductees to talk to them firsthand to talk to a lot of other people that have had sightings I mean one particular uh Air Force pilot from Chile um he actually took shots yeah fired his 30 millimeter cannon at the UFO in Chile and he was told to go

1:03:06 and shoot it down and he did and he he shot at it uh he it um there there was holes in the desert where he missed it but some of the shs hit it and it wasn't damaged and then because he used a lot of afterburn or reheat um he lost a lot of f and and had to go back to land in Chile and uh he had Dead stick he had no fuel left it was just literally on on gliding down and this object that he shot at this croan sphere was on his right wing tip about 20 ft off the wing tip yeah and it went down with him and he landed parachute out stopped the sphere was still on his wind tip and then just disappeared over to the top of the mountains again yeah so and stayed there for days uh this is Page seven stuff in in you know South America uh when it happens here it's big news uh but I met people like that and other people that had all of their and CH flying a phantom in Iran had Iran not Iraq

1:04:09 yeah Iran must be pavy's Jafari this one right that's it you got it that's the fell and uh all of his um rocket system uh s missile system went dead and then we hear about I can't remember the state it was in that to disable all of the nuclear missiles in a complete area um you've heard of that I can't remember you got more information out than I have is it Robert Salis maybe that one I don't remember but all the all the missile silos I think it's in Nevada or somewhere like that they all turned off with this with this craft hanging over the top of the uh this area it's about 20 square miles of mstom Air Force Base is that sounds that sounds more like it so these things are occurring now the great news is today everyone's got a mobile phone even I had one back in the day but I forgot stupid uh but everyone's got a phone now you're finding so much more information about what's actually happening yeah um whether that's a good thing or bad thing or deliberate I don't know to keep the news narrative away from what's actually going on yeah it's it's

1:05:13 hard to know these days isn't it what's whe it's information disinformation misinformation and it's all there for military purpose I believe yeah and and of course one person's misinformation is another person's verified fact so everything's all just a bit more messy um but yeah that's so cool that yeah you got to meet all of those guys and and yeah they have some really incredible cases as well like which are all or most of them are covered in yeah Leslie's book theu that's right yeah both of them are yeah Pilots generals and government officials go on the record I think it's that's it yeah yeah yeah um so just to go back to your report again so you reported it uh and basically it went nowhere you never heard anything back other than only yeah the only thing that came back was this is no threat to UK or and French airspace that's what we got nothing further from that uh this uh this this is usual story however a little while later I'm sitting in a friend's house in Aly and she's uh she smokes G outside for a cigarette and she said Ray come and have

1:06:19 a look at this and I said all right what is it so it and up and there this big old piece of Kit just hanging in the sky dark it was a dark night moonl Starry Night moonlit night and I've never told her about this either actually she'd be quite surprised to hear that I have and she said look at that okay yeah it's pretty unusual just standing there like a like a big waste paper Basket in the sky made out of metal you know just kind of all angular shapes on it and then it just went like it just disappeared to the northwest of where we were sitting oh standing out in the whole garden just disappeared like that and about 5 seconds later maybe 10 seconds later two fast Jets which never appear in orderly at very low level this is two fast Jets came after really it seemed to me like they were I don't know they weren't it didn't look like um they appeared French does

1:07:24 that sound ridiculous they they appear but I couldn't see them not coming from a pilot it sounds more logical than if I said it they seemed French yeah but they were fast but they weren't supersonic but they were they were 600 plus knots I would say amount the time it took to hear them and they were gone yeah they were doing they were fast but they weren't super and it came directly overhead directly where this thing was was up in the sky above us wow that wasn't that was maybe four years ago something that 20 20 20189 didn't write it down but yeah it's still going on and people are still having sightings here generally speaking they whenever they bump into me in the pub or whatever they come and say I saw something really weird over top of Tori for the other day I said what did you see well it's like a a big what do they call it a big wood burning stove hanging over the for how big was it 20t and then it just disappeared now a good friend of mine I won't mention his name CU he probably wouldn't appreciate it uh we flew together here uh for

1:08:31 about three or four years before he retired and he retired back in I think 2005 at the age of 60 very well-known Royal Air Force pilot and uh Buccaneer pilot fast jet and then came back into civilian flying he was flying from Jersey to gery at 2,000 ft and he's a very quiet man he he's not public he keeps himself to himself he just sidled up to me one day and said I saw something the other day which is quite weird I said what was that he said uh well I was at 2,000 feet coming from Jersey to gery and I flew past a wood burning stove hovering stationary and that was it he just walked away so and this is a man that this is not a sort of fellow that make up stuff you know he's very very serious very collected this not sort of a chat raise a conspiracy theory just said I flew past a wood burning stove at 2,000 ft and then off he went so it still go it still goes on and it's

1:09:35 happened and I think I would suggest that 95% of all sightings are never reported yeah yeah yeah it sounds about right to be honest yeah I mean there's so many reasons against reporting it like not that I agree with them but there's so many apparent reasons that make sense as to why people might be less likely to report things yeah and even even just the fact that even if there's no no Stigma no taboo no backlash from your job like sometimes it's just people don't have the time or the hassle or the head space or they just just I think they're scared I mostly think air crew air crew especially and ground crew are scared of losing their jobs yeah I black all over again yeah yeah the stigma is the biggest issue I mean you obviously were you must have been one of the first to come for and make a report and go public while still being like actively flying with your company and everything I did go to the company and say what do you think in fact then I got a phone call back from the managing director and said well what do you think I said well I think

1:10:36 I saw something he said well go for it because the publicity is worth millions yeah exactly yeah now I I don't really understand why people want to keep your stuff under wraps it's uh it's great publicity for the firm and it worked out pretty well must the second the full page spread in the middle of the Sun newspaper that's a million quit in it in itself you know so good for the company yeah it is strange why a lot of it is kept so under WPS and and things like that I suppose it's just largely related to yeah the same taboo and stigma is just so it's so ingrained and so it's the same as a helicopter pilot that saw my the other UFO that I saw over Brighton in Sussex he was retiring the following day so put it out there yeah if he hadn't been retiring the following day I guarantee you it wouldn't never have got published yeah lucky timing um what were your like immediate thoughts so when so within the first say 24 48 Hours you know it's

1:11:38 all fresh I'm guessing it was still something that when you got home and you're sitting down with your cup of tea I'm guessing that was the first thing in your mind you're like so what did I see so your IM your immediate speculations and thoughts and then how does that contrast or compare with your speculations and thoughts now 16 years later after researching this phenomenon and everything like that well uh it stayed within the the aviation Community for what three or four days nothing nothing was heard about it maybe a week uh you know there's a few funny remarks and but no quite surprisingly nobody was disparaging especially in the a few jokes you know and uh the five notes that are on the Close Encounters of of the Third Kind were whistled at me occasionally walking down the street you know um but there was no there was no real lash backlash and then a BBC reporter finally after lives in Ordy got a hold of it and then it just went mad from that you know invited to do this that the other go to go to London and I did do that actually on was some talk

1:12:45 show Judy Jud something in Judy oh yeah Richard and Judy Richard and Judy yeah that was fun that was fun actually that was a fun day out um I I met the most miserable actor in the world there but he's sadly passed away now so I won't mention how his I won't mention his name or how short he was right anyway it good fun we had to laugh about it and I think actually it may have uh encouraged other people to come forward with their s because I heard from them afterwards that they had a lot more a lot of people telephoned in and wrote in and said you know they I had the same sort of experience yeah and also sorry a lady here in Aly that I used to work with with arini she came forward to me and said I saw exactly the same shaped thing out of my top bedroom window about a month ago and that was I don't know a year after the event so it it did it did bring bring people out of there carace out of their shouts you know yeah yeah and they didn't make you feel ridiculed

1:13:45 or like judged or you know anything like that on the Richard and Judy CU a lot of the time on kind of I'm not going to say on Richard and Judy I have no idea but on like these kind of you know daytime TV shows and things like that or even just popular mainstream kind of shows it would normally be if they get somebody on to talk about this kind of thing it'll be like oh somebody that says their wife was abducted and replaced with a you know a Mars bar or something or aliens like took took my wife and I know this because they left yeah a half-eaten bag of crisps on the floor you know these kind of ridiculous things and uh yeah so it's just so easy to continue the stigma but they treated you with respect they took you seriously well yes they did uh Channel 4 I think um on the same day I did an interview with CNN it's the one that this Glenn Glenn I can't his name now he's still going today but CNN fired him actually for telling the truth about something I can't remember his surname now but had a same the same uh they had a live audience in in the

1:14:48 USA I forget where they were I think he in their headquarters in California and live audience and there um and just my I couldn't see them what I have was a little camera in front of me and uh but I could hear from the laughter that was going on in the background and I heard afterwards they putting little UFOs in the picture and they were flying and landing on my head and going through my ear and out the other side all side yeah so yeah uh it was still going on then that was America however that particular chat whose surname I can't remember has now flipped he's gone the other way he's realized that CNN was just a propaganda and still isn't a propaganda news Outlet he I think got fired but he was not there anymore but now he's changed his tune to exactly the opposite of what it was and yeah is a bit of a truth teller today and I just wish I could remember his surname yeah but yeah I've never seen that program but I I could note that from the laugh that coming out from behind that they were taking the Michael as we say in England yeah yeah yeah I mean it's just

1:15:53 that's the perfect epitome isn't it of the stigma and the taboo and how it's created and how it's sustained and yeah how basically to convince people to not come forward and share their stories and everything like that that's Chang I'm pretty sure now they want people to come forward because they want to maintain this be frightened be scared narrative yeah I think it changing I I don't know exactly where we are I still think we're in a confusing time where some sections seem to you know be encouraging it and there's OB still yeah some like I say some some channels and news sources where I'm like do they not realize who David grush is and who what he came forward and said and how are they you know how are they not even mentioning this at the end of the headlines you know when they do the news articles about this squirrel can water ski and then they they they're not even telling us about David grud they're telling us about water skiing squirrel but not David grud it's mindblowing stuff at least at least the BBC has had to apologize recently about its reporting in you know in Gaza so uh I think because now X formerly Twitter is able to fight

1:17:00 back with Elon Musk actually enabling narrative to come out against what's being said they're having to attract an awful lot of stories and the propaganda is hopefully starting to disappear it'll never disappear until they disappear yeah yeah we're we're in an interesting time we're going to see some interesting things in in the sense of all this like the control of information and everything um there's one other interesting thing that might be of interest to your audience now this is uh uh a firsthand observation from a good friend of mine who actually flew for the same company I won't mention his name um he was doing exactly the same route as I was doing from Al to Southampton sampton and he uh he noted that on the way back because you're over the over the English Channel for most of the time the English Channel was pretty rough very rough but there was an area ahead of him slightly to his left uh which was calm a flat area of sea which was very calm and

1:18:08 the rest of the sea around it was lapping over something that was just below the surface of the water uh he could see the sort of the the waves coming over the top then going calm on top I said how big was it he said well took me a minute to fly over it no 120 knots it's a very slow airplane that's a mile okay sorry uh it took me 30 seconds to fly it it was a mile on right so that is weird and kind of didn't resonate with me at all at the time and then I thought about a story that had have well not a story a fact that a submarine that got lost here called the HMS AR Fray in 1953 and lost with all hands now they could hear tapping on the hull from ships that went searching for it for three days so there were still people alive on it but what what happened I I believe it was 1976

1:19:10 a diver found the wreck and divers and went down and took photographs of the wreck it's a wargrave obviously as I didn't want to enter uh but what had happened is that the snor which the when the when the sub is submerged it breathes through a snorkel to enable the diesel engines to power underwater just under the water and this conning Tower top was damaged and all of the snorkel and uh Associated equipment on top of the conin tower was smashed was broken off was bent backwards it looked like it had hit something now when they sent all these ships out to surveil to try and find the HMS Fray under the water whilst the whilst the uh tapping on a hollow was still going on uh they found a massive this is on Sonar massive massive object on the sea floor it was huge they don't say how big it was when you read the report but it was very very large but that

1:20:12 can't be a submarine that we're looking for we'll go and look at that another day they recorded where it was and they didn't find a submarine for another 25 years at least I think it was um then they went back to look for this other large object a little while later and it had gone it wasn't there anymore yeah now portal uh is it something there that would have been maybe they made a mistake I don't think so if they went up and down it six or seven times with sonar to determine how big this thing was it's bigger than any ship that's ever been made today included was that the thing that my buddy my fellow pilot saw just below the surface when the waves weren't breaking over it and it was breaking all the way around it just a bit of bit of historic speculation out there but it's an interesting story that's never been told before I've never told anyone that and he hasn't well thank you for sharing it yeah yeah that's fascina

1:21:16 this would have been this would have been in a a particular area known as herds deep okay herds deep is where a lot of ammunition was buried a lot of nuclear waste was buried in steel drums it's a very deep area of the sea uh just north of all nearby about eight miles and that is pretty much what he told me um where he saw it so whether that is interactive I don't know I'm not sure but anyway I thought you'd like to know that one do you do you know when it was what year it was you might it would have been it was it was around about 2010 okay okay I mean it's fascinating that there's like nuclear waste around there um and and things like that it's it's fascinating the way this thing was under the water could have been a craft could have been a giant craft that that moved away could have been something else it also reminds me a little bit of the incident with David fraver the nimit where he said he saw you know he saw this Tic Tac kind of doing ping pong moves above the water and under the water he saw this you know this large shape that he I

1:22:20 think he compared to a 737 kind of but I don't think definitive sounds sounds like different size to this one but the same kind of idea of just below the surface um I think with his it was the water was breaking on top it could have been a slightly different depth or whatever but yeah it was something that his eyes were drawn to and he's like what's that under the surface there um but yeah it's quite increasing increasingly common to hear about these things in the context of being underwater and and around water and being able to get in and out of water absolutely yeah in fact there was another sighting in gery nothing to do with me I I just read about it where a lady in the north east side unusually northeast side of gy saw this craft about 30 feet above the water stationary no noise no helicopter drop a tube down into the water and after about a minute the tube went back up and it disappeared off quickly so maybe it was refueling I don't know I've got a clue but that was another thing but most of the sightings in the Channel Islands

1:23:22 generally speaking happened to the northwest of the islands there's a kind of a line there uh a lady that I also staying when I first went down to was based in gery on the hotel I stayed at there was a lady there that she worked behind the bar got chatting she was driving home after the bar uh work one night about 12:00 along the west coast of gery is a long Coast Road there and she saw this thing in the sky which she described as a block of flats to the degree where she was looking at it she crashed into the seaw wall and punched in a front tire she got out and this chat pulled up behind her and said everything all right said well I just punch C I just hit the wall but look at that and he saw it as well but she never reported it and I think it's the first person she spoke to was me uh because of the sighting so yeah that's people come out and wood to you I had so many people in gy just come up to you in the bar or in a restaurant

1:24:24 or it's you know what you saw I saw this or that or the other you know and like I say 90 probably 98% are never reported yeah of sightings do you think it's a bit of a hot spot there gy the Jal Islands yeah for sure absolutely for sure yeah yeah I must have spoken to I don't know uh since then to today people not today but this year uh I must have spoken to four or 500 people or they've come to me and had a chat you know uh friends their relatives my relatives saw this that and the other you know we we were in the Boy Scouts and this happened and all that sort of thing historically goes back 50 60 70 years you know it's not a new thing yeah yeah absolutely maybe longer um in terms of the skeptical attempts to try to explain and debunk and you know like demystify this this encounter have you like what was the best skeptical attempt to explain it and

1:25:24 what are your kind of responses to the skeptical attempts i' from my brief looking like some they attempt to say like clouds like lenticular clouds of the sun fishing boats earthquake lights that kind of thing did any of it seem like that one's a decent effort interesting yeah good effort you're right there's a couple one was earthquake lights the same day I think we had an earthquake in do the same day or day after right but they don't appear Over the Sea earthquake lights it's only over land right apparently I've never seen them but a local astronomer chap here maintained very strongly that it was a moon dog which is reflected light outside of the of the moon or the sun yeah Sun dog you know they got different types of it all depends on the type of cloud uh I had a chat with him and I convinced him otherwise yeah were there any others that you felt like yeah this is this is interesting because I'm obviously every time somebody comes up with one of these tell you know an attempt to explain it I'm sure you kind of put yourself in that and I'm like okay so could it

1:26:29 someone told me something that was in private eye you know the the satirical newspaper about it but to be honest with you was just all over the place so I just ignored it uh it was on the net you know was on the internet still earlyish days on the internet it was all over the place on that but they soon forget they move on they move on to the next Target yeah as you said you stated clearly what you've seen and and it's good to know that jpan g Gan I I never know how to pronounce him are looking into it g i p a n guy pan I depends which accent we go with um look R I really appreciate your time and everything today looking forward to talking to you again and uh I wish you all my best thanks very much thank you to Ray Bo for talking with me thank you to our patrons for supporting us and thank you for listening please see the description for Relevant links if you want to continue unraveling the universe with us then please subscribe and if you want to give us even more support then please consider a small monthly contribution by a patreon thank [Laughter]

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