Estimating the flight characteristics of the 2004 Nimitz encounter: SCU panel with Kevin Knuth, Robert Powell and Peter Reali (2021)

0:00 Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us for another Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies panel discussion or a live stream that we've been doing these in lieu of the conference from last year because of course we've COVID and we have a very exciting panel today and the people that we have have put together a Nimitz report on of course the famous 2004 Nimitz event but I'm going to read you a little bit about their bios real quick here yeah we're getting a bit of an echo we might need to start putting on some headphones

1:00 I've got some here it's a little better now there we go but uh okay let's get to some of the introductions so in the white hair to my right or left uh depending on here you're looking at it I I guess is the introduction Peter Riali um Peter has a BS and a Masters in Electrical Engineering from the University of California Berkeley he's worked uh throughout his career in the Silicon Valley he's also a a a founding SCU board member we also have with us Robert Powell he's got a BS in Chemistry uh he has 28 years as an engineer and in management working in the semiconductor industry he's also worked on quite a few very important uh UAP reports in the past including one on Stevensville light lights event um the UAP event in Agua de Puerto Rico in 2013

2:01 um and of course this Nimitz report that we'll be discussing here and of course if you have questions about those other reports uh Robert or Peter can answer those questions and then we also have Kevin uh with us an associate professor in the department of physics at the University of Albany um he's also editor-in-chief of the journal entropy uh he's got a great background and I highly recommend you look in the show notes below and get a little bit more about him and everyone else but let's go ahead and get our discussion started so gentlemen uh let's start with and uh I kind of would like to hear from all of you this Nimitz case um maybe talk a bit about about this case happened in 2004 but what was it that really excited you what what was it that decided you know made you think hey you know there's some analysis that can be done here and uh that we can contribute to the conversation

3:01 I think the the what excited me the most was the quality of the witnesses uh that that's probably what excited me more than anything and we had a large number of witnesses with some of them being very high quality um and like for instance who were some of those witnesses well for for example uh fravor who's a naval academy graduate james slate another naval academy graduate uh and then also we have uh kevin day who is the senior chief aboard the uss princeton uh all also gary borsett who was uh over the computer uh part of the uss princeton uh and then there was also colonel uh lieutenant colonel uh knuth i believe is how his name is pronounced um and he he was always his name is very similar to kevin so i'm always getting them

4:02 mixed up and he was the first actual f-18 uh that saw the uh unknown whatever was causing the water disturbance so there were a lot of really uh high quality witnesses peter uh what was it that you really drew you to the case what made you think you know um there was something to this and something we can do here something we could figure out what made you think you know um there was something to this and something we can do here do you actually have a youtube open say that again i i'm having a hard time there's so much echo that i can't understand anything you could have youtube open so i would double check that because i think they might be playing what when i mean when i mute when i mute it still does

5:03 i think the best thing then you might need to put on some headphones it's just you're you're getting feedback through your no because i'm muting like when you mute peter then there there is no echo but once you unmute then it echoes off of alejandro you know what you want to do you want to do it yeah like if you want to work on that kevin i uh and and i i'm saving you for last kevin because you know um robert and i for instance have been doing this for for a couple decades working on this sort of thing together and uh however you know you know you coming from uh the science realm being in a a professor uh you know what and especially regarding this case in particular what drew you to this case um it was a number of things actually um first as robert said it was the number and quality

6:04 of the witnesses was impressive the fact that you had um you both had you had visual confirmation from multiple pilots simultaneously in some at some points in time um you had these things being picked up on radar and so um so we had information from seniors senior chief day on how these things were were behaving on radar and and then to top it all off we had in you know the fleer um camera footage um from the from the f-18 and so i think together you've got you've got multiple multiple modalities in which this was observed this wasn't just observed visually by pilots but it was also observed electro-optically and in in at least two modalities so it would have been fantastic to have the radar data released that would be great but

7:05 we don't have that but we do have somebody of the quality of um senior chief day who you know could could recount you know what what he observed which with some accuracy which was great and i think what really really drew me to this was the when i learned that that he observed these objects dropping from 28 000 feet to sea level in something like 0.76 seconds um less than a second that it that really impressed me and i thought well this is a simple physics problem you know a first year physics student can figure out what this acceleration is um so we this is this is solvable we can we can look at this and um and i think that's what really got my attention um i want to review just real quick kind of what happened um during this event also and of course correct me or add it and we'll add more detail and i'm just going to do just a quick summary here just so people who aren't aware but essentially

8:08 uh 2004 the uss nimitz strike group off the coast of san diego actually i'm that's where i am so just off the coast here uh while they were doing training exercises uh experienced kevin day the you know the senior guy in charge of the radar uh he during this period of a few days is witnessing lots of strange readings on the radar these unknowns coming in dropping uh starting from very high dropping very low multiple targets uh doesn't know what these are finally after a few days he's able to uh get permission to have some of the the jets out there on exercise check them out in particular uh there was a marine uh jet that had flown in the area i believe that was an f-18 and then uh of course we had the most famous uh group uh fravor the wing commander along with uh

9:09 you know his another plane coming with him they went to go check out the area fravor flies in to get a closer look uh they do see an object they see some water disturbance uh that's been described several different ways so it'd be interesting to hear what you all think about that water disturbance but above that was a white um not quite shaped like this but somewhat similar in that it was pure white solid but uh lozenge shaped more like a tic-tac that's what they called it the tic-tac um it seemed to recognize he was in he was in the area it maneuvered or it changed uh reacting to him apparently he tried to follow it it seemed to react to that and eventually just took off very quickly um it was later then uh seen on radar at a particular point a cat point which is important because that's somewhere where they were going to meet later on it's a rendezvous point that essentially nobody

10:10 knows um it's kind of encrypted on their systems uh then uh later on after he lands and everybody's excited about what occurred one of his colleagues another pilot takes off says hey i'm going to capture this thing on camera everybody's like yeah right but he did and he was able to get a short video of an object and that's the one that was released in december uh 2017 by the new york times and then by to the stars and eventually by the the dod themselves just late last year uh so that's kind of the gist of what went down and some of the players and we have are the the radar people on the princeton you have ewak so you have planes in the air uh radar planes you have of course people at the uss nimitz and i believe kevin day was working on the uss nimitz um is that correct or was he on the princeton he was on the uss princeton uh and then there's also a submarine

11:10 involved uh supposedly did not capture anything on sonar um and i guess those are the major players so uh peter i guess what were your findings given uh what you guys looked at how what were these objects doing and how quickly were they maneuvering uh oh well i'm getting tremendous feedback here even with my earphones on i don't know what's going on but um the uh i'm hearing my voice about two seconds later and whatever but uh if you're asking what um you know we we there were three may there were three major uh events that uh we analyzed in the paper one was the um of course

12:12 uh uh you know the going from 80 000 to 28 000 feet in like 0.78 seconds and we we you know also uh when uh fravor was out by the uh tic tac uh and he had circled around and it took off and flew away at tremendous speed out of sight we analyzed that one and then the of course the flare video the third one and all of these had accelerations which were uh completely uh anomalous and you know what what i mean by anomalous is that uh the word anomalous is uh you know means uh the the prefix a means not and and anomalous comes from latin name so it means it's unnameable meaning meaning you know it's beyond understanding because they're you know even uh the most solid one was the uh the video because you actually can you have a frame of reference

13:14 and you can actually uh it doesn't just depend on people's uh narrative you actually have evidence and we know that it's the actual video because of testimony and you can actually measure uh because of the uh we know about the camera we know the angle of view we know the approximate size and so we can actually calculate the acceleration it comes out to somewhere between 50 and 100 g's which would kill a human and tear the airplane apart and the only two airplanes there were an f-18 and then these e-2 uh sky hawk i think they call them with huge dish on top it couldn't handle it couldn't handle more than a couple of g's and probably fall apart the f-18 would probably maybe 10 or 12 g's and the wings would come off and uh further further we analyze the uh power requirements for this if you an f-18

14:18 uh it weighs about unfueled about 16 tons and uh we assume one ton and you take the energy required to do this to it's especially uh well for the video it's more than the airplane possibly has uh to be able to do that for the uh uh david day from 28 000 uh from 28 000 feet to 80 000 feet and even in uh you know between like 0.78 to even six seconds i tried all the different calculations it's um gigawatts of power required like nuclear power stations or hundreds of nuclear power stations so it's completely you know off the books in terms of understanding so you know what attracted me to it was uh you know the fact that we were going to investigate this i mean i i joined uh uh basically i i

15:21 you know i joined uh robert who had already started uh interviewing these people he was already studying the nimitz long before this became public a good year i think uh before this come out in the new york times and i was impressed with that and then as we got into it and did uh more studies and researched how the flare camera works and those kind of things it just began it became we spent about a year and a half on it you know so um it pretty fascinating sorry you're someone uh asking this question and it is another important point is how um you obtained the data to come up with these numbers um he's mentioning something uh about using photo analysis versus telemetry uh but really i think those neither of those were a major part of of the

16:22 data that you all were using uh you were using witness testimony from witnesses for the most part i believe um kevin is is that true um and yeah well it depends on what event we analyzed we we analyzed several different um events so when we um the when we looked at the um what kevin day witnessed on radar when these things are dropping from 28 000 feet down to sea level in 0.78 seconds um we used um his that the information that he obtained from doing reconstructions on the aegis system so um so we used those numbers the um for the case when uh commander fraser um tried to approach one of these objects and it shot away um he he said that

17:22 it was out of sight in less than a second something like this and we were able to estimate how far it would have something about the size of nf18 is how far it would have to be before it was out of sight and so that gives you an approximate distance and from that you can get an approximate acceleration or an average acceleration so in those cases we used uh witness testimony um because we didn't have um hard data there but in the last case when the we had the flare video and the um and the object near the end of the video the object the system has lock on the object and that loses lock as it accelerates off to the left on the screen we were able to use that segment of video because the camera isn't moving at that point the plane isn't turning and we were able to to analyze that video we basically went through and measured pixel wise where the object was at

18:23 every in every frame and knowing the field of view of the camera the approximate size of the object you can tell how basically how far it's moved in each frame and that allows you to um basically fit um your kinematic equations to this which gives you your acceleration and that's basically how we did this and when you have that instance with the photo it's not like there was necessarily telemetry to use i mean there's some telemetry that came in the in the video but nothing that pertained to what you were doing no what what what the the the metadata in the video that was used was basically the um these there's a scaling on on whether on the magnification of the of the image and actually near the end of that video during that segment that we we analyzed the um magnification switches from one times to two times and so you know we use that fact to um that

19:24 informed us that the magnification is changing and indeed you see that when you're when you're mapping out the position of the object and that is what exactly what happened now robert uh how does this the nimitz report compare to other reports that you've done such as with stephenville and agua dia um and you know given those differences what is your confidence level with your the nimitz estimations as opposed to some of the previous ones well the the stephenville report what was unique about it was you had radar we actually got the radar data so we had the radar and the witness data uh in the case of the uh in the case of the uh aguardia report that's basically video that was the strength of that report but in the case of the uh nimitz a report i i consider it actually a stronger report because the quality of these witnesses uh as well as uh the radar data

20:26 that we know occurred right although we have not been given access to it and i'm very confident in the conclusions we drew based on the on that witness testimony a what a viewer should realize is that a video by itself or a photograph by itself or a witness by itself none of those individually are that great but when you combine them together that's that's when you have a much stronger case so in the nimitz case you have an example where the uss princeton identifies a target on radar and it sends the jets to that exact latitude longitude altitude location and it's tracking not only these f-18s the uss princeton is also tracking the unknown and when it says they're at merge plot that means they basically are so close

21:28 together the radar cannot differentiate the targets but that tells the pilots you're in visual range i mean merge plot is within half a mile and then they they see the object so that's um too much of a coincidence to take that quality of testimony and say oh it just it's just a coincidence that the radar sent you to that location and you just happen to see something that's you know that that that becomes you know like winning the lottery what do you think peter what are your thoughts on that how do you feel about um what is your confidence level with the report well um yeah yeah i i think that the quality of the uh witnesses is very high they don't there's no uh they have nothing nothing to gain from it i mean everything to lose and nothing to gain and

22:28 uh i i think like uh uh kevin has said in one of his presentations that how wrong can they be i mean you know these are expert pilots uh you know they're they're not they're not the greatest describers in the world i mean talking calling something a tit-tac without any dimensions or the you know uh but uh you know as far as the truthfulness of it uh i have no doubts and in addition the video has been uh the government has come out and said that that is the actual video that it's a real video and i think two or three pilots have said that that is actually a video of the tic-tac and so um it you know it follows that it convinces me i'm pretty skeptical uh what it convinces me of i don't know what it is i i know it's not something that uh the

23:30 government has a secret lab somewhere we wouldn't be spending billions of dollars on the f-35 uh also this is 2004 right and we're still we still don't have anything that has that the capabilities of this thing had uh so you know people if we if we had this or a foreign government had that they dominate you know they they would be so far ahead of any military they wouldn't have to worry about anything again you know we spent billions and billions and billions of dollars on hypersonic missiles and all this other kind of stuff wouldn't need it at all uh so uh i i didn't work on the on the aqua dia uh video but i i did read it somewhat and it seems a very solid and and it you know it comes that there's a lot more um knowledge of where the

24:31 actual video came from and the people involved that have been interviewed by the scu and the scu doesn't just put up videos and say hey look here's a ufo or something you know we do a scientific uh forensic analysis of of everything so uh you know you we'll we'll back it up you know we should back it up anyhow yeah and one of the arguments that there was some kind of conspiracy going on whether that be uh testing of something unknown or in the area to kind of see how they would react or or there's a lot of things that break that down or that you know um higher-ups were aware of what was going on at some level is that you know as kevin dave described it was just something he was observing and he was the one after time who asked if he could scramble and he they let him you know send someone in the area to take a look um but it is kind of mysterious there are

25:32 some witnesses who say some of the the radar records uh disappeared um and i know some of you uh interviewed the witnesses directly did they tell you that and what do you make of that so that i to my knowledge uh alejandro i was the first person to interview kevin day i'm fairly confident of that i interviewed him in january of 2018 a month after the new york times article came out and i also then interviewed gary voritz and i found him in facebook i interviewed him one month after i interviewed kevin day a key thing that i did was i verified they did not know each other at that point in time they had served on the ship together but when i asked gary if he knew of kevin day he said the name sounded familiar and then he went to his kind of like a alumni book and he paged through it and he said oh yeah

26:34 i remember this guy he was he was pretty sharp he was our senior chief so i verified that now when i asked kevin day what happened he told me that the day after the incident he said he goes down he goes down to the central headquarters of the ship to get the logs and which are recorded on digital media and they had all been deleted right so that was strange and he said he'd never seen that happen so when i talked to gary uh boris he tells me a little uh a similar type story but different in other words he indicates that someone comes on the ship and actually takes the tapes and they request that he deletes everything on the ship so he's the one who actually deleted it so i've got two independent witnesses who don't know each other and so they've not been conferring about what happened and yet they're both giving me a similar story that the

27:34 information on the ship has been removed so that's um i thought that was very good in the same thing with that radar information that kevin referred to the 0.78 seconds when i asked kevin that that was what he told me 0.78 seconds when i asked gary boris of that same question right after verifying he and kevin you know at that point in time january of 2018 did not know each other now they do today um his response was when i asked him that question he said how long did it take you to make that thought and he said that's how long it took so and when we did the analysis we looked at various numbers what if it took one second what if these guys were wrong and it was three seconds what if it was six seconds in all of those situations you have accelerations that we are not capable of today and we will not be capable

28:34 of in 50 years kevin i guess what do you make of that now there have been instances where some of these cases have been traced back to kind of small little scientific uh organizations or groups who actually look at some of the data here and there it's fairly rare i think robert's come across that and i know um people like paul dean or some of the researchers have ran across that do you think there might have been some uh scientific analysis group that wanted to take a look at and analyze that information what do you make of that um what do i make of the data disappearing you mean in that yeah i don't know what to make of it that that is very suspicious and and it's worrisome um it makes me wonder how anybody knew that the data was there in the first place um how did people find how did somebody else

29:34 find out that these events happened and um and then you know to the degree that they realize that this is something that they need to take action um take action um for so it's it's very strange um and i don't i'm not sure what to make of it i it's you know it's possible i mean there's it's one thing to take the data but it's another thing to delete the data so deleting data suggests that there's some kind of cover-up they don't want people to know that this happened or get let this information get out which is a little surprising considering that the video was eventually released but of course so your hand was a bit forced on that case but um uh what about peter or robert do you have any more thoughts on you know the disappearance of those records uh peter

30:35 especially because you're definitely more skeptical about any kind of uh you know cover-up type of thing uh do you what do you think of that well there's a huge i mean there's a long history of this um in in you know in the uap uh history of of records disappearing people seizing records you know um uh and so i'm not surprised that but you know this is 17 years ago and i think it's really hard to uh um you know people's memories those kind of things it's it's hard to know but um i i uh i remember there was one incident where some some uh uh military no some civilians came on board and took records right after the event and um uh and i've kind of heard both sides of that i i don't know it's just another one of these things you just you

31:36 know till we have some evidence we can't really say exactly what happened but um uh i i know that just speaking to one of the one of the events that kevin analyzed this um uh the uh japanese kal airlines in 1986 uh there was uh they had the radar uh at the um uh control center you know and uh records and stuff and people came in and took the records and fortunately he had a backup copy so he still has copies of the records but um why they're doing this uh i don't know you know it's a mystery uh someone did mention that fravor was skeptical that those records disappeared uh and i believe that is true that he is skeptical but of course it wasn't a first-hand witness necessarily to that right what i'm commenting on that is uh fravor knew what

32:37 was going on on the uss nimitz and he made me right maybe nothing was taken there i have no idea uh we don't have information on that but the uss princeton i know i don't see how he would know whether information was taken or not off of off of that ship um you know going back to the conspiracy uh alejandro i i really hate conspiracies and you know i've studied the ufo uap's topic going back to world war ii and prior to the nimitz event if you had asked me you know does the government know anything and do they hide any data i would have said no i don't think they know much more than what we know and they just kind of ignore it right kind of like i don't know if you guys ever saw hogan's heroes but kind of like i see nothing i hear nothing i know nothing that was how i saw the government in this whole uh issue but you know and i i know that sometimes in an individual case right maybe someone hides

33:39 some data because they they don't want their admiral to know that there was a ufo sighted on their ship because that's not good for their career but that's not really conspiracy over time but in the case of nimitz where these guys show up immediately that tells me they were monitoring there is an organization monitoring and then zipping out and grabbing the data i've never seen that before this is the first you know kind of what i feel is pretty good evidence that happened uh and i don't i don't know what to make of it exactly uh it's an uncomfortable type feeling and my gut feel is that this isn't something that has always been going on but maybe sometime in the last 20 to 25 years maybe there is now a group that does you know some level of monitoring but in general like i said i hate conspiracy

34:40 theories yeah and for those people asking questions thank you so much we're definitely building up to get through some more of these questions uh great questions that you guys have um of course they are off the coast of san diego where there's huge the navy base here is just ridiculous it's so cool the giant tons of ships out there so that could account for them getting there quickly and even fravor said the first thing he thought was that's got to be ours it's got to be something of ours um and that could have been another answer is that oh you know they're like oh one of our things is we got it on video we better not we better hide this before we know what it is just in case it is ours or some kind of data out there i guess i could see that too um yeah i'll i'll comment and you know maybe kevin and peter might comment i i just absolutely do not believe that we have the capability 15 years ago of developing anything that could

35:40 accelerate at hundreds to thousands of g's the only possibility that i can see and i i don't buy this argument either but the only one that you might possibly argue is that you had some advanced holographic system that was projecting this object right and there's a whole ton of reasons why i don't believe that but at least that's plausible that we could develop something that moves at a hundred g's of force i i just i just find that not even on the table well i can't buy the holographic thing because if you know how holograms work they require projectors and a medium to to go on and not this thing is moving around you'd have to have the projectors flying around to to to do this you know in three dimensions i mean that's a bigger problem then that's probably harder to do than you know it's just as hard just as hard to do and in

36:40 addition to that you these things were interacting with the pilots so you'd have to also be monitoring the aircraft right there would that would be done with radar and there were no x no additional radar systems in operation so so another controversial aspect is the video um and there's uh people out there in particular you know a gentleman named mcwest who a skeptic out there who believes that he's kind of figured out what it is but at the same time the dod on multiple occasions now have admitted that video represents something unknown they don't know what it is they don't think it's a balloon a bird another plane aircraft they don't know what it is what's that they should hire mc west apparently right and that's what i'm getting at unfortunately we don't have the results of their investigation which convinced the navy that

37:40 this was something that was unknown but certainly at least with what you all have seen i think you all agree with the navy's determination that and so is fravor um and other uh you know the other guys involved yeah sometimes you just have to lower your humility and say i don't know there's nothing wrong with being able to say i don't know what it is and and it's shocking and i think you all would great agree um especially for those of us who have been looking into this for so long it's definitely my jaw is still on the ground and it's been on the ground since 2017 but um you know it's shocking that the navy would humble itself to say we don't know what this is yeah yeah i've actually wondered about that alejandro like why why why why did they even open their mouth right why not just say nothing and

38:42 the only thing i can think of is because this has always been in the preview of the air force and this is unusual for the navy to step in and this is pure conjecture on my part the only thing i can think of is maybe they want a bigger piece of the defense budget and they thought this was an excellent way to get their foot and to argue for that could be and you know and that may sound cynical but a lot of the experts i've interviewed uh say the same thing that often these sort of things a lot of what goes on is all about the budget and how to gap garner some more funds and possibly even jockey some funds away from other services that have responsibilities that they're not meeting up to so hey let's kind of slide some of this this way yeah it's amazing you know how much the navy is on the forefront of technology compared to the air force for example like your uh magnetic rail guns which is a very

39:44 advanced technology that's the navy uh the laser systems the first one deployed uh one's capable of taking down another aircraft that's that's with the navy um they're they stay at the forefront i agree i think that the navy you know they're um you know like their anti-missile defense systems and the spy spy on spy six radar now you know uh very advanced technology uh drones and all kinds of but maybe they just talk more than the air force does i don't know but uh uh you know better pr guys maybe well actually that's what brian bender told me is that the navy actually has uh professionals uh uh uh you know a lot of people who have gone to school for communications and journalism whereas in the air force you're assigned it so you may have no interest in pr but you're assigned to that

40:44 department so he he said yeah they're just kind of getting in front of the story and doing a better job pr wise and that may be true um and you know other people have made a comment that it may affect their budgets with this uap task force with the air force not getting involved there might be money when the intelligence committee is looking at it uh definitely and those are the people who hold the purse strings then um there's definitely going to be some sort of political jockeying going on with the topic um and there's another question about the pasta you know the navy may be more involved also because some of these things are witnessed underwater or going into water and coming out of water so that's that's another issue where the air force wouldn't be wouldn't be involved uh another question and speaking of strange navy behavior uh and that somehow got tied to this whole thing and and it's along the lines of what we're talking

41:45 about and people are asking about this too are the patents these strange patents um and and interesting enough the first time i saw them was uh lou alizando the guy who worked for the pentagon showed me these patents and said this is kind of weird look at this and they were these patents that the navy had uh you know a navy defense contractor had patented uh this pais guy of these technologies the pais effect and maybe kevin you can speak to this a little more uh that would allow for some of the sort of things that they saw the tic-tac doing and so a lot of people assume oh they're kind of tipping their hat saying hey guys this is a tip that that you know it was us but of course people in the know savvy around these things are more saying no this uh you would not be seeing these patents if they really had developed these things and really the whole thing's kind of gotten debunked and now work through the drive the war zone

42:45 has shown that they the navy essentially determined that this pais effect doesn't work there's no evidence that it works so i should put it that way um what are your thoughts on these patents and and this seems to be some pretty strange behavior uh when i when i looked at the patents they didn't look the the effects that they were claiming didn't look real to me i didn't see how any of it could work so um and i conferred with several of my my colleagues and they agreed as well so so they didn't look like real phenomena that was being utilized here so um so my question is why is why would the navy be promoting or making public patents of things that don't actually work um or shouldn't work so it to me it smelled more like a like an attempt to you know look you know like you said look here we're tipping our

43:47 hat we we we know how those things work we actually have this technology so stop thinking about aliens and don't worry about it it's us and i and that that was kind of my impression i that's just an impression but my impression was it was just to throw everybody off the trail that there's something interesting here um but i'm sorry 5000 g acceleration is interesting regardless of where it comes from or who made it right so um i wasn't about to lose interest uh peter and robert uh have you been following these pants and what are your thoughts mine are very similar to uh kevin's i mean uh a lot of the public thinks a patent means something necessarily works and it doesn't uh you know i dealt with patents in the semiconductor field and let me assure you you can get a patent for almost anything if you have the money behind you and the attorneys you can get anything patented and that's essentially

44:49 what they discovered was it true right everybody was in their mind you can't print it if it is i i i think my my thought on this is that there was um some middle management in the navy that got taken advantage of by this pisos or whatever salvatore i think someone put his name in there great because they had a lab and they tried to build some prototypes and it didn't work you know of course yeah and uh you know i when i read the patent one of them he had to be spinning a you know you have to spin a disc like 30 meters in diameter at 100 000 rpm and to create this um a charge disc no less to create this electromagnetic field that would cancel gravity and all plus he had superconducting he already figured out how to do superconducting he had all these patents you know well i mean and he's and he's going to just give them away for free i mean they're going to post them and

45:51 let everybody here's the us has these revolutionary patents and they're just going to uh post them for anyone to use them i i don't think so they didn't be classified instantly you know if they were real yeah so when i was a kid at the back of the the boy scout magazine you know they had the ads for the hovercraft you could build but i guess uh these days they've got the instructions on how to build your own tic tac yeah that was it's still weird that's definitely a mystery and and how they fell for that it is great work being done at the the war zone um i would definitely recommend people check out those articles um other people are asking what you all thought of what do you make of the alleged water disturbance um what could that have been have you been able to figure anything out um where do you guys stand on that i have an idea on that and the uh i

46:52 think that the water disturbance was not something under the water i think it was the field generated by this this object that allows it to hover disturbing the water below it that that's my theory on it because it uh when when it took off and went away fravor went back to look for the object and and it wasn't there anymore and uh you know there wasn't any more disturbance and i think the i think that the object caused the disturbance not not there was a submarine under the water or a mother ship or some you know something like that what about you uh similar i think the same that would make sense yeah i also thought that the disturbance was probably from the uh from the tic tac um i did wonder about the fact that he said it looked that there looked like there was an object

47:54 that was like a 747 underwater and and i have witnessed taking off from san diego you can see gray whales you know out of the plane window and sometimes they look like submerged airplanes or submerged submarines um they're not that much they're not that different when seen from a plane at you know 10 000 feet or something so so you know you could have had a whale down there and the thing was hovering over the whale and the field is creating it was trying to watch the whales you can't who knows you know who knows what they're doing you know we still don't know what they were doing tracking south at 100 knots you know and did that over and over again for two weeks it's very very strange behavior as well yeah mm-hmm yeah really weird you know uh if you re read our report this was going on before the fravor event it was going on for three days they were seeing not just one of these things but groups of them uh multiple ones going up and down you

48:57 know in in sort of like a strange patterns you know just going up and down and up and down hovering up there along it you know you know 40 miles an hour 80 miles an hour or something like it i mean a plane can't even most jets stall speed is way above that you know they just fall so and a balloon certainly can't go can't go you know hundreds of g's i mean it's it's it's a mystery we don't know what it is yeah we don't know what the heck um someone had mentioned a bit ago that um when you were talking about the uh pace effect kevin that uh two or three years ago superconductivity at room temperature was confirmed but if i remember they might be referring to i think that was just like for a short period of time they that they

49:59 achieved that um i remember something like i i don't think he's framing it correctly i guess is what i'm saying do you know what he's referencing at all no i mean i mean recently there was there'd been some advances in superconductivity at room temperature but um yeah i don't know i'm not sure what that has to do with the pace patents in the sense that it's not clear how i i mean i i read an article about that you know the good news is they have uh they have room temperature superconductivity the bad news is they have to have it under a pressure of thousands of tons of pressure on a little tiny little crystal to make it happen it's totally it's not practical i mean you can't so i want to hear what you guys think of this comment um and i've and i

50:59 this person's saying that when you use the uh photo analysis you get different results than if you use the telemetry and the flare but i think we're talking about very different numbers and data so that i that doesn't seem to be i guess could you speak to that what are your thoughts and on that comment i'm not sure what telemetry on the flare they're talking about the flare wasn't tracking speeds it didn't have the distance it didn't have any of that information so there wasn't any telemetry yeah there's no telemetry yeah i mean it shows maybe what direction the camera was facing um that's about oh like i said you have the airspeed of the aircraft you have the right the direction the camera is facing and that's basically it yeah so there's not much you can get there so yeah so if you want uh if you have some specifics that you want to ask about definitely put that in

52:00 here and uh we'll get to that so this report you put in your journal entropy um i was submitted there how was it taken how was it accepted amongst your peers well let me back up and explain how that happened so the um because there was you know of course some chatter about oh he's the editor-in-chief of that journal and so of course it got accepted in that journal and that's not what happened the um i presented the this research at the maxent um conference the um bayesian maximum entropy and bayesian methods um workshop which was at the maxplank institute for plasma physics in garstein germany and so i presented this work there and we had and the the conference organizers had made an arrangement with our journal that that the proceedings for the that that publishing

53:02 company would publish the proceedings from the conference so they were so the conference organizers are guest editors and it's their decision into whether to accept papers or not um not my not my decision so i only step in if there's a dispute or a problem and so i presented my work at the meeting um it was very well accepted um they people were very interested in you know in the video very interested in the analysis um i had one one colleague violently objected he was very upset about the whole thing i shouldn't be messing with the military i shouldn't be doing working with this nonsense i can be using my you know my abilities to do better things and and he he got to the point where he actually said you could you could take me on a tour of one of these spacecraft and i still wouldn't believe it

54:02 and and then a few of my colleagues jumped in and try and were like whoa whoa you're being really really rude here and i and i and i said no he's making a good point for me he's making the point that there are people who don't want to believe this to the degree that they will just deny it no matter whatever you give them and you know and he's basically said it and so that's really true and one of my colleagues um and friends and colleagues at that meeting actually he has a nice quote that i like to use he said a motivated skeptic a sufficiently motivated skeptic can deny anything and i like to keep that in mind and that's really true so but otherwise the you know the other participants were all very interested there were lots of questions it was all very positive um and then the organizers asked if i could would write this up into a longer paper that they would then publish in the journal as a as a longer longer paper presented at the meeting and

55:04 and i was more than happy to do that so i was glad that they were interested in seeing it so it was so would we so i wrote this up with peter and robert and and we we then had it reviewed um we had three reviewers and i think the reviewers comments were all very reasonable and actually helped us improve the paper a good deal one of one of the reviewers had suggested the um could this not be a hologram and of course that came up and you know could you know his his thinking was you could use multiple lasers to to excite a patch of air and you know you'd create a plasma which would reflect radio waves so it would show up on radar it would it would heat up the air so you'd pick it up on an infrared camera and visibly pilots would see it um but you know we basically worked through what you would what it would take to do that you'd have to be shooting the lasers from land because there were no ships in the area um the angles would be too low because you're too far over the

56:06 horizon and um and you'd have to because these things were interacting with the planes as i mentioned before you'd have to be tracking the airplanes and then actively changing the you know your the behavior of the lasers to excite the air to mad you know to interact with the planes it would just totally wouldn't work it would work good on a stage you know yeah that's right so and and we we presented that argument back to the reviewer who who yeah sure and you know opted you know decided that the paper should be accepted so so i think it was i mean we we did we did a very careful job and we did a careful analysis and we had fortunately had a you know and the scientific audience who was willing to look at the data and look at the re analysis and look at the results and say

57:06 yeah that's what you get that's what i would get if i analyzed it so um i'm not sure exactly where he's going with this question but here's a question uh nasa was conducting the x-43a test three in the operational area during um the series of events leading up to the november 14th event shouldn't they have been aware of any unknowns in the oa the operational area um i'm not sure which day he's referring to but uh i'm sure you all were aware of any testing going on in the area or you looked into it i had heard that there was testing going on i didn't i didn't do that aspect of the study so i don't know any details there was some testing prior to that prior to you know when all of this occurred it was it was not in this exact area i mean it these guys have a military operating area that uh they're in

58:08 control of so there's nothing and it's huge yes it goes from dana point down to mexico as far as coast-wise so off of our coast i mean there's helicopters jets flying over me constantly from um and then it extends out for it's it's the largest testing area bigger than the area 51 out here so right i'm fairly confident i'm fairly confident the x-43 can't zip around low over the water it's like a hundred degree turns then head up at a hundred you know g's to a thousand g's and then uh stop and you know just hover i don't think you can do that yeah can't do those things it certainly wasn't that that they was witness but i think from when you read the question it sounded like shouldn't they have been aware of any you know strange objects in the area so that's more of a question was nasa aware um and as far

59:10 as i understand you know nasa has basically said we don't want to get involved with any of this and we're not that's it so go ahead an x-43 is a conventional object i mean if it accelerated at 50 g's it would disintegrate it's just a you know it's just another you know another type of rocket air airplane you know it it can't handle it's very difficult to make an aerodynamic uh frame that can uh that's subject to air pressure and atmospheric pressure and at those kind of g's that would stay together wouldn't be torn apart you know i mean they might get up to five g's or 10 g's or something but 50 or 100 g's no way and i mean i think people get a the wrong impression when it comes to nasa also nasa and the military are very very very very different nasa is very

1:00:12 bureaucratic definitely very transparent military's very bureaucratic but not very transparent um so i mean they are they are much different in that and just because i think the nasa conspiracies are really silly even more silly than the rest but um you know we do kind of have a big problem still there is this impression by some people in the ufo field that this was some kind of revelation of information but when you look into the inf the how everything went down like we mentioned before and like you have in the report um they did not want to release any of this information the videos were not released intentionally to the public um the dod even argued that to the stars in the new york time shouldn't have released those videos when they did uh they did an investigation to find out the the actually there was a adopter there was a foul up in the military that the reports the videos even

1:01:12 got released they shouldn't have been but um you know all of this data has been really kind of uh if it wasn't for louise elizondo really and the witnesses coming forward to share this information we wouldn't have any of it so that really doesn't wash and even more a bigger problem i mean you wouldn't have had the data to write that paper normally if it wasn't for lou and and all of this this had happened um but beyond that the dod is saying uh sure we do have this uap task force now but what they're looking into uh is classified we're not going to share that information the results are classified we're not going to share that information uh they have no information of interacting or sharing with the public at all so uh especially for an organization like seu that's trying to analyze data they're not willing to share that data unfortunately do you have any hopes that that will change at all especially with uh this upcoming

1:02:12 report that they're supposed to be submitting about you know what they have acquired or done in this arena um all the different and hopefully you know it's supposed to be a lot of different intelligence agencies we donating to this report we'll see i mean we have no insight on what's going to happen with that but how do you all feel about that i think it's interesting because you like you just said you do have you have many agencies contributing to this report they're not going to share it they don't want to share any of it yet there's nothing to see here nothing to get worried about or excited about so so so it's hard to believe i mean it's they've got a credibility problem if they're not going to share it so i'll play you know plus a middle manager in the middle of some bureaucratic organization is not going to be rewarded for releasing something secret you know and he and he may not know whether it's

1:03:13 secret or not yeah i mean he may not know what's important or not so they just clamp on everything you know i mean that that that's an excellent point i mean it's basically cya right there's nothing to gain and everything everything to lose your career you know exactly so the only way this any of this type of information comes out if there was it would be if there was a huge public clamor to congress saying we want this information then you will get some out right but if you can't otherwise you're we'll get nothing yeah they're probably sitting on secret information from the civil war yeah well and you know and and i would say i would tell the audience that you know these sound like opinions and opinions sure can be a dime a dozen and a lot of people on these podcasts have opinions but that the opinions that you all are sharing are actually much more educated than

1:04:13 even the vast majority of ufo researchers i would say just because you know robert you've literally written a book on government you know ufo papers and and involvement and you all have as part of your investigation in this have uh you know interviewed these guys and and to get the idea of the the situation and you know kevin you kind of even describe a similar kind of situation when it comes to science and scientists i mean there's little benefit uh as we've seen with you know this harvard professor abby loeb um there's little benefit to really coming out and um rocking the boat uh especially when you're dealing with budget budget budgets credibility um it's much better you for instance are you know sticking your neck out there to do this um could you speak to that kind of how the this like you talk about this catch-22 sciences in and

1:05:15 looking at things like this yeah i mean it comes down to a lot of this comes down to with comes down to the problem of having your world view challenged um we all have a picture of how the world is and how things work and we really don't like that being challenged it makes us uncomfortable so um and scientists are just as prone to you know those that that discomfort as anybody else is and um and so i think what you see is you know you're seeing you've we've seen scientists behave very much like um like galileo experience when he tried to get bishops to look through his telescope we don't we don't trust they will say they say the same things even you know the bishops

1:06:15 were you know we don't know what the lenses are going to do on that telescope we don't know how it's going to distort the image we don't we don't know what you know we don't know about that instrumentation so we're not going to look we're not even going to look through it and i've heard people say the same things i don't know exactly what a fleer camera records and we don't know you know what if an insect got in there and buzzing around and you know i've had i literally from from good college you know solid scientists have said really ridiculous things about about these you know these instrumentation these instruments now um you know it's one thing to be skeptical but it's but this gets taken to extremes when you just and and when you just assume that everything is normal you know everything is prosaic you don't you don't make discoveries by assuming everything's prosaic and i think um i think avi lobe you know at harvard said something like that you know if you don't look for the extra

1:07:17 extraordinary you aren't going to find anything extraordinary and i think that's what you're seeing but but of course finding extraordinary things is is it's scary it challenges your worldview and people don't want their worldviews challenged i mean we we you know we these videos are released and you know and there's you know suggestions that you know these things could possibly be extraterrestrial and no almost no one re i mean we all reacted right but the general public yeah yeah i saw something about that on tv and blah blah blah we don't care they're more interested in what the kardashians are doing exactly that's really just yeah i i humanity right there and and you know and so you've got yeah you tell your wife about uh you know about a uap event she says oh that's really really interesting but what do you want for dinner you know yeah so i mean life goes on and so

1:08:18 yeah so it's so a lot of scientists you know found this kind of interesting but some of them found it interesting some of them really reacted you know like my friend i wouldn't believe it if you took me on a tour of one of these things you know he really doesn't want this challenge you know for whatever reason and um and i think that we humanity still suffers from that same arrogance that you know that we're the center of the universe that that problem you know that the copernican revolution didn't do away with um the sun became the center of the universe and then we learned well no it's the universe is bigger there is no center but we're still the most important thing the universe was made for us right and that's in our our minds and anybody better than us significantly better than us is scary i mean yeah i mean i think kevin makes you make an excellent point i mean it's it's in the same way we talk about when we will discover these super intelligent

1:09:20 civilizations out there and just logically the super intelligent civilization will discover us before we discover it i mean yeah that's right but we don't believe they've come here because that's impossible it's too difficult so nobody's come here and there's a lot of strange thinking and and a lot of the intelligence of my friends and colleagues goes out the window when thinking about this topic but but that that to me suggests that there's something deeper going on there's some difficulties and and discomfort here and i think that's a big problem and so yes i'm sticking my neck out you know professor loeb at harvard you know stuck his neck out as well and and it's a good way to get it we really appreciate that too well thank you i don't know if it's i don't you know i've had people i mean courageous i don't know courageous stupid it's a very fine line um but but you know i i i'm way too

1:10:21 interested in this and i'm banking on the fact that there is something interesting here and and i'm and and as i told i told my colleagues actually when i gave the presentation on the nimitz case and our analyses um at the max blunk institute i started out by saying you know why am i going to be talking about this and i said and and i said because 10 years from now i don't want to be kicking myself for not looking into it and and having the boat and so yeah i my my advisor and in my phd advisor had had been studying neutron neutrinos coming off the sun and they were having problems because they found that the surface of the sun is vibrating back in the 60s and so they abandoned the project and they didn't publish anything and then several years later another research group gets the nobel prize for discovering solar seismology for discovering that the surface of the sun is vibrating and so my

1:11:22 advisor would tell me the story all the time and how he missed out on the nobel prize they didn't even publish their discovery because that wasn't what they were studying it wasn't a big deal and so yeah i don't want to kick myself 10 years down the road plus the the the you know the fact is that the you know we've been ignorant about this situation for 80 years and for at least 80 years since the 1940s i'm just saying right so yeah you know the this attitude among scientists that this isn't worth studying and um and this attitude among you know government leaders that well we can't talk about this we got to keep it classified has led to this situation where 80 almost 100 years later we are still almost just as ignorant about the situation as we were then 100 years and we've barely learned anything now has the government learned you know has some aspect or program in the government learned something we don't know but but as a

1:12:24 whole we've learned nothing the navy is like we're encountering these things and we don't know what to do congress please help you know that's 80 years this that could have been solved by putting scientists on the problem in the 1940s you know you know of course you know we were worried about germany at that time but you know after germany we could have done that we could have looked at this problem and we still don't know how serious the situation is we don't know what the situation is and the situation could turn out to be very serious um you know if these things are a threat we're in big trouble as you know kevin dave kevin day you know said that even if these things are hostile we're in we're in danger and we're pretending it's not real you know so um exactly and stop worrying about climate change really quickly when we find out what these things are yeah climate change right forget the pandemic you have to deny it you know but we don't

1:13:26 know what the situation is and why don't we know because scientists don't study it and i mean if you look at uh like uh you know civilizations having a certain lifetime and like let's say they're in the you know universes billions and billions of stars the chance of running into a civilization that was uh close to us in in development is pretty small i mean most to be behind or way ahead of us and you know so it's you know if we meet something it's more likely they're ahead of us because if they're behind us they're probably got using steam or windmills or something you know but so they they have to be far ahead of us you know and like robert said they'll probably discover us first well and there's new terminology being used that i think is kind of allowing science to move towards what like seu and others are doing but doing in a

1:14:27 manner where they can still deny oh we think what they're doing is silly but we're going to start looking for techno signatures yeah yeah i love that archaeological i've been to several of those meetings and so yeah yeah that's exactly yeah right they're they're willing to look for for alien artifacts on the moon or in the asteroid belt but not on earth that they wouldn't come here god forbid you'd come to the most interesting planet in the solar system but you park yourself you know 256 miles and miles away and then remotely observe the earth no nobody do that you put a face up there we'll put a face on mars yeah let's go all right two two more questions and then we'll kind of wrap things there are i think you guys uh sufficiently answered questions around the videos i feel but one last question would be how important is the video to the report it seems like even if that video didn't

1:15:30 exist you would still have a very interesting report yeah i i think you could i mean not that you would want to but you'd throw the video out the window and and the importance of this event has not changed well i i i i do think the video adds yeah a solid some kind of uh um not uh objective analysis rather than depends on narratives you know uh you know it it uh otherwise it's still you're taking people saying this and saying that and people can deny it even it's still good because many witnesses agree but it's nothing like having a video and uh and even better you know radar or something you know that's what we're looking for mm-hmm so um the final question i guess is looking

1:16:30 at the future uh we have the stephenville report that was done through the mutual ufo network uh you know part of your work with them uh on a big case that was a big media case and in fact i didn't even think it was it was blowing out of proportion until you did your investigation robert and found that radar dad and showed there was something to this um the agua dia case which kind of established helped found the seu and and now this one so the cases with real data are certainly far and few between um so where do we go going forward where are we going to get that data i think you know that's something we talk about at seu quite a bit i think um and peter you've talked about this before uh and i know i've been thinking about you know when i when i joined the seu i i i i thought that perhaps the model we should use is

1:17:31 kind of like storm chasers you know uh we have our own instrumentation our own scientific group and we go out and and have these things in the field and when a a specifically good event occurs we record the data ourselves um that's unless somebody gives it to us we have nothing to analyze and uh uh i i think we're moving in some of this some directions like that trying to start with maybe some instrumentation that we could uh maybe have have a release open source or something like that like um uh seti you know a model like seti where we have to have their own uh their own instruments and their own telescopes and everything we'd have to have our own is our own measurement devices somehow to capture some of this then we then we could uh we'd know the provenance of it we we could control the information because there's such a problem with one of these um when one of these

1:18:33 things goes out it goes out it goes out everywhere and the stories start building and changing and and one talks to another and there's no facts and there's opinions and it has to be um documented and controlled and that's what we try to do to be scientific about it you know so it's solidly based in in objective reality so what do you got kevin and robert i mean do you see a problem with this you know where are we going to get this data especially if the nimitz situation had to be snuck out to us um you know we got lucky on that fortunate in that we were fortunate with the nimitz data um the the other videos you know while they're fun to watch or interesting they don't tell you that much the go fast video the only interesting thing i was really able to glean from that was that the uap was cold i mean you don't

1:19:33 have many aircraft that are cold i mean that's strange um but you know and and um and the gimbal video it's you don't learn much from that either and so it's so it's difficult um the the problem also with expecting data from the military is that they're not scientists um they're not necessarily going to be doing controlled experiments and and they're doing other things and recording uaps while they're doing other things so they're not equipped to handle all of the issues as a scientist how would you what would you like them to do would you like them to provide data to you as far as your university or academics or perhaps provide data to scu or an organization like that what could the uap task force do that you think would be helpful no that's a great question i think that you know they they do i'm sure

1:20:35 that you know from what i understand there is they do have some data um and imagery and whatnot so i think that it would be wise for them to involve scientists in some way um to have you want as many minds as possible working on these problems you don't want a handful of people who can't talk to this handful of people and you aren't you don't solve problems that way um as i mentioned to lou elizondo you know it's often you know people especially who do secret work tend to think that that's the only that's the only that's the main job in town that's the only the only thing that really counts and matters um but we forget that you know the wright brothers bicycle mechanics created the airplane right how did the implant airplane affect the military that came from bicycle mechanics um albert einstein was a patent clerk

1:21:35 right um you don't you don't you've got to employ a lot of people and put a lot of minds on these problems to get these breakthroughs so um i think that they should involve scientists in some way whether it is that they whether they choose some scientific organizations to provide the data to whether they provide it to they just provide it to the general public and allow scientists to download it um that that's up to them how they want to handle that but i but i think it has to be you know analyzed with scientists who use the scientific method communicate with other scientists openly and um so that we can make some progress here because there doesn't seem to be that much progress made so far you know nobody knows how these things fly and nobody knows how these things are accelerating at 5 000 g's um and and it doesn't seem to and it doesn't

1:22:35 seem that anyone knows where they come from or what their intentions are or how many of them are present on earth at any given time i haven't even heard any estimates of that so um that was a question i asked lou alessandro and he didn't have an answer so how many of them are here on earth now and what are they doing here well we can't answer any question and nobody's worried really yeah well you know uh well one of the one of the things that i thought about is that uh if these things show up on radar they could be interpreted as a missile or a hypersonic missile and say something like uh between india and pakistan might start a or china and and and india or uh north korea and you know determine this thing is a war you know nobody worries about this one of these things and they call them cia drones

1:23:36 so the iranians have attributed these things to the cia and they've already lost an f-15 just a few years ago that's you're right this is a huge problem this is probably a bigger problem because these things are hostile what kevin and peter have said robert uh you know having literally read the book on you know government involvement with this topic uh what are your thoughts as far as what they likely will do and uh what they should do well what they will likely do uh you're talking about this task force correct it will just be a generic statement of some type and there won't be any real information that comes out what they should do is they really should provide the information like uh kevin was mentioning uh to scientists because if we as a civilization as a civilization ever encounter of another intelligence that that's an issue for the

1:24:38 whole world not for these little governments and nation states uh that's that's something that affects all of humanity and so i i think that information needs to be provided mm-hmm well and in other scientific endeavors such as nasa's you know that sort of information is shared um i mean especially when it comes to nasa and some of that work there's all kinds of crowd citizen science being utilized for that and they're making a lot of incredible discoveries and the whole world gets to watch what perseverance is up to and nobody has classified that or worried about it yeah i think i read that uh during the time of project blue book they submitted this to the battell institute and uh for psycho part of it was a psychological study of what would happen uh to civilization if people knew there were

1:25:38 actually uh yeah um you know advanced civilizations coming to earth and whatever and they thought it was very destabilizing and that it would cause panic and uh you know i i mean there's people that said no it wouldn't they just accept it but that that's kind of like you know yeah there's aliens out there but if they land and they're a million years ahead of us and could have god-like powers uh to do things certainly our you know government is going to lose its authority and you know if you look at history like what happened when the uh europeans uh landed in south america to what happened to the native population uh uh and you know you know it doesn't look good for us you know it has to be and uh there's a lot of opinions on that um you're definitely going down the hawking road and there's others who

1:26:40 you know certainly felt differently people like mitio kaku or tyson or you know a lot of people feel differently but the point being that i guess whatever is happening if there is uh intelligence behind it that we're not familiar with um it's not a full-scale invasion but uh so we don't know the nature of it but if there is something like that going on i guess to the point of most everybody we should try to figure out what that is even if it is a 80 years is way too long to be ignorant yeah we're playing it we're playing a very dangerous game at this point well thank you all so much i think that was extremely interesting i think we got to a lot of you know the meat of the importance of of all the trappings with this case and the importance of it and kind of where we're headed and i think a more realistic view of where we're

1:27:42 headed then a lot of the public is really a lot of the public are making uninformed kind of opinions on this topic and that's what's great about a panel like this where we can get uh very informed opinions people are taking a very serious look at all the data available um so the information you guys are providing is invaluable so thank you so much uh i did put the links uh on the chat but i'll put them in the show notes if they're not for the entropy article and to go to the seu uh and to see the the nimitz report all of the reports that we referred to you can see uh at the scu site uh explore scu.org uh and more there's a lot of other uh academic reports on this topic uh because there actually have been some over the decades not a lot but there's been some over the decades that are up at the website as well so thank you all very much also check out the website i think is there

1:28:43 information up on the next uh conference the virtual conference is that on the website now it should be there yeah yes yep great so check that out so again because of the pandemic it will not be live in person but uh it will be virtual online so people can check that out there that's going to be really exciting too all right well thank you all so much uh was there anything else i forgot to plug or point people to no it was great i enjoyed this conversation yeah me too i mean you might you might mention uapx as well we're still planning oh yeah having a mission to getting a research vessel out at sea south of catalina island to actually look for these things so that's just right out this way i sure hope you get some videos or something you know we're gonna try you also have some like uh uh gravitational things and stuff like that too right uh we have uh yeah we have well we have a good array of equipment we're going to bring

1:29:45 out so we have we have actually have fleer cameras ourselves and and um lots of other equipment so we'll do our best uap data it's the only way we're going to get information so all right i'll try well thanks all right thank you for having us put that link in here too all right thanks guys all right thank you everybody for joining a lot of activity in the chat lots of great questions thank you all so much for joining and of course uh send the link to this video to all your friends who are interested great stuff and please do subscribe to the website by hitting the subscribe button down there to our youtube page and the little bell bell because uh dsu will continue to do videos over time uh like this that you'll be able to enjoy and it's wonderful to see you guys live and get your questions so thank you all so very much until next time we'll see you later thanks guys thank you bye bye