Test Pilot Watched a 300-Foot Black Triangle Blot Out the Stars Over Edwards | Dan Isbell Part 2

0:00 They started winking out in the shape of a huge triangle. It was [music] just blackness. This thing had no color to it, no lights, just it blinked out all the stars as it went over me. And I didn't know if I maybe felt a little electrostatic energy from it, or it was just chill bumps, because this thing was >> How big was it in your field of view? >> If I put a number on it, I would say maybe maybe it was 300 ft wide. So, 1980, now jump to 1990, and I'm a instructor at the test pilot school. And I also had a a pretty fast motorcycle that I like to go ride out in the evening, and and I would ride out there was a road that went toward the south base gate. This one particular night, I'm just watching this beautiful canopy of stars over me, and from behind me, they started winking out in the shape of a huge triangle. Very sharp corner on the front. [music] Just quietly moved on, didn't accelerate, did nothing. But it was going so slow, it was shocking. And I did have a chance to go talk to George Knapp. And when it got to that third one, George Knapp is sitting kind

1:02 of at the end of the table, and Jeremy's here beside me. And after that third event that I just described, George Knapp leaned in across the table and looked me eyeball to eyeball, and he >> Welcome back to the Safe Aerospace podcast in part two with my two-part series with Dan Isbell, former Air Force pilot turned test pilot. For the first time, we're bringing you all the details of the encounters that Dan's been through throughout his life. The Safe Aerospace community has grown rapidly over the past couple months since we started this podcast. If you want more of this content, please like and subscribe to this channel. It really helps us out. And now, on to part two with Dan. >> So, 1980, now jump to 1990, and I'm a instructor at the test pilot School, one of my favorite jobs. I would have stayed there 10 years if they would let me. If you've ever been out there or maybe at

2:03 China Lake, probably the same thing. Uh when you're out at night, there's no clouds, there's no humidity, and you can see the Milky Way like amazing. It's like an astronomy observatory. And I also had a a pretty fast motorcycle that I like to ride out in the evening and and I would ride out there was a road that went toward the South Base gate. It's a long way down to the gate. So, I went by the classified South Base, which is uh just south of the regular. And there's also a North Base that was more NASA Dryden and classified stuff there. Then the main base had had more like, okay, not super classified, but still maybe some secret stuff. And the South Base is where we had tested the B-2 after it and I was accidentally caught it on video when I was making a movie on the very first flight it took off. And then I got stopped by the OSI after we landed. But anyway, the um the ride out there, I would go out and just look at the stars for a little while before I went to bed and this one particular night I'm just

3:04 watching this beautiful canopy of stars over me and from behind they started winking out in the shape of a huge triangle. And it was just blackness. This thing had no color to it, no lights, just it blanked out all the stars as it went over me. And it gave me goosebumps. And I didn't know if I maybe felt a little electrostatic energy from it or it was just goosebumps because this thing was massive. I can't estimate its full size cuz I don't know exactly how high it was. But it seemed to be pretty low. >> How big was it in your field of view? >> Oh, it took my side to side, tip tip. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah, it was out there. It was really, really big. So, if I put a number on it, I would say maybe maybe it was 300 ft It was huge. >> Triangular? As far as you could tell? >> Perfectly triangular. Very sharp corner on the front. >> And here I'm on I'm on I'm on the

4:04 government property of the base and the And so I didn't tell anybody about that one because I didn't know if that was something we were reverse engineering and why we would be flying it there, I don't know. >> No sound, I assume? >> No sound. >> This one did not have any like a luminescence around the edges and all like the one I'd experienced in the in the UK. I didn't know what it was, but I'd already got kind of in trouble with the OSI for one of the Friday nights before that. I just always coming up with stuff in my mind and I'd come up with a way to make invisible visually, >> not just eliminating radar. And I kind of thought it through mathematically and how it could be done. And I didn't think anything about it, but we were just, you know, just having with the students who'd usually go over the officers club a little bit and kind of blow off steam on a Friday night. And I was just talking to them about it theoretically, nothing I knew about. And suddenly guys come up in suits

5:06 and they grabbed me by the shoulders and said, "Sir, come with us come with us." And they take me off to a private room and they they said, "How do you know about this?" I said, "Know about what?" And he said, "What >> you were talking about." >> Cuz you just told me. Cuz you just confirmed it for me. >> know anything about it. I'm just theorizing something in my head. And they said, "Don't ever talk about it again cuz we got a program trying to do that right now." I said, "Oh, well, I didn't know." So, finally, you know, they they took that as that as my my word cuz they knew I'm an honorable officer and doing good. And I never talked to a soul about it again. I still haven't told anybody what I was theorizing about cuz cuz what they said, "Don't ever talk about it again. So, I certainly wasn't going to talk about this thing that came over my head. >> Especially while I'm doing the favorite job I never had, teaching test pilot students. That was so much fun. My goal was always to make them a better test pilot than I ever was. If I could achieve them and they could master these flight test techniques to perfection, that's what gave me joy. And so, I really loved teaching and I

6:09 wasn't about to jeopardize that job cuz if it was something that wasn't supposed to be seen and I was shouldn't have been out there and I shouldn't talk about it, that would have been a ball of worms I didn't want to get into. So, I already had that experience that >> How did that experience end it? Just continued to fly past you quietly and went out of sight? >> Just quietly moved on, didn't accelerate, did nothing, just But it was going so slow. It was >> Again, like the first experience, how does it do that without projecting anything I can hear? There's nothing there that makes sense to me. So, there's got to be a different propulsion system to do that. And I [clears throat] don't know, you know, I've seen some of the stuff about TR-3Bs and some of the things they've talked about with doing, how that would work and I don't know if any of that's true or not or if it's all just stuff to muddy the waters, but whatever this thing was doing was very unusual and again, this was a perfect triangle and not as small as the one I'd seen in the UK, but

7:11 it didn't have a curved front. It had a pointy front and pointy ends. But it was huge. So, I just decided I'd had enough for that night and I got back on my motorcycle, went back and went to bed and didn't tell a soul, didn't tell my wife, didn't tell anybody. So, that's the second one I had and that's really kind of the the full story of it. >> And I know other people have had experiences where something just blanks out the stars. >> I've heard very similar things as well, >> Yeah. So, I can't say that that's a an alien craft or anything like that. I know what it was. >> Could have been something we were testing cuz we tested lots of other stuff out there, but I would have thought if it was something we were testing it would probably been better up at Area 51. >> So, again, what was it? No idea, but it it really was weirding me out that wait a minute, I've had two fairly close encounters with these things now. Why? Why me? >> Not everybody had it or at least certainly nobody talked about it if they

8:11 >> Did it go like right over your head or was it offset? >> right over me. >> Almost like it was intentional cuz I'm the only thing out there. I mean, you get far enough down the South base South Gate road and you just have the dry lake bed and you have some mounded desert-y stuff. But the lights of the main base are no longer creating a visual problem cuz I mean, you know, with street lights and really lighting the lines and all that stuff. You can't really see the night sky real good unless you get out there So, I'd always get out there ways where now I don't have anything. It's just light, quiet. And that was my favorite place to go stargaze and I did that pretty often just kind of in the in the day. I've always done that since I was a child. >> Just real quick, I mean, the object size that you're talking about I mean, you wouldn't even be able to put that in a hangar. >> So, you wouldn't be able to put a test object. I mean, one might hypothesize that it was an inflatable in some way,

9:12 right? With a rigid structure um with some almost vantablack >> type capability where it's just absorbing as much light as as physically possible in order to avoid reflections, right? Cuz even on a >> even on a starlight provides more than enough light against a normal object to typically be able to at least pick out the skin of it, you know, coming in to land at a carrier in the you know, in the middle of the ocean. You know, if you got starlight at the bright night, but if there's no overcast layer 8,000 ft or something, it can be like having your eyes closed out there. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Um so I mean you need you know, it can't just be a normal black object. It would have to really be absorbing uh as much light as possible or or it would be utilizing somewhat I call optical stealth technology and maybe you know, there's two ways of thinking about that. Maybe it does you know, operates in a way with that you just described where you can't see what's behind it. Um a lot of optical stealth technologies other one

10:13 other ways of implementing that that I could imagine would basically still allow you to see what's behind the craft, right? It'd basically be you know, almost piping the light from behind it and ejecting it out the front in some way, right? So you would still see like stars going you know, see the stars behind it. If this was a human technology, it would either have some kind of massive massive hanger system to store or is a inflatable using some type of vantablack style or or optical stealth technology. And on top of all that, you know, potentially some type of propulsion system that doesn't emit any any audio. So I don't know. It's all No answers there obviously, but just kind of trying to describe the scope of why that's so weird. >> Yeah, it was weird. It definitely gave me chill bumps cuz that was so large, you know, and like >> Chill bumps or was it you know, some kind of electrostatic field? >> electrostatic field. See, I don't know which cuz I just know I was tingly. My my arms felt tingly and that kind of encouraged me to get on my

11:13 motorcycle and get out of there. >> Just go away cuz it was another one of those things that I didn't want to get caught seeing it. >> And I didn't want anybody to know about For all the reasons we've talked about. >> You got one more, don't you? >> I actually have two. >> Two more. >> So snap forward now this time to about >> I'm living in Silver Springs, So, now I'm across the country and I've got this amazingly secluded property where it's light quiet cuz it's so far away from any kind of lights. >> I'm by the Ocala National Forest and the Ocklawaha River. And out the back of our place, we had a hot tub that we like to go to that was in a very light quiet place and had an open view of the sky. And in November, me and my wife, November in Florida, sometimes you have

12:13 just amazingly clear nights in a place like that and you could see the Milky Way again. >> And I used to just sit like lounge back in the hot tub and enjoy looking at the stars, seeing how many satellites I could see cuz they're very detectable and they're very predictable. And had seen nothing all that time. My wife finally, she was getting a little shriveled. She says, "I'm going to go in and shower off and get in the bed." I said, "Okay, uh I think I'm going to stay out a little bit longer cuz this is a perfect night. I'm just enjoying stargazing." So, she went in, I stayed out and I still didn't see anything except an occasional satellite, maybe a shooting star here or there. And then I uh decided, "Okay, I'm getting shriveled." So, I got out of the hot tub and grabbed my towel. And about the time I'm toweling off standing right by the hot tub, I'm surrounded in a perfectly circular of a color, I would say it's like cyan, but it wasn't fully blended. It was a little speckly, but it was a bluish

13:16 greenish light, a beam. >> And at first I'm thinking, "Is there somebody out here on this this isolated property that's like trying to pull a prank on me?" And so I look around our zone and there's nothing anywhere. There's no sound, there's nothing. And then I start looking at this thing it's it's encompassing me in the hot It's reflecting off these white base rocks we had there onto we had a shed right there. But otherwise it's like very concentrated. And so I realized well it's almost perfectly circular so it's got to be coming from above. And then when I look up I'm looking right up the beam and it comes to a But because it wasn't too bright to hurt my eyes but it was I couldn't really tell anything about the craft. But it was something up above me that had just illuminated me. There was no sound again. It wasn't a helicopter. It wasn't like a helicopter searchlight that would have really been

14:17 >> It was like a defocused laser. >> If you've ever worked with lasers and you know how if you defocus the beam it will it won't stay a narrow beam it'll it'll spread out and you do that And you can size it to be whatever you want it to be right cuz you when you defocus it you can spread the energy It's still collimated but through optics you can defocus it. So it kind of reminded me of a like a defocused laser but it was not a laser like I had ever worked with. And again that's I'm doing that job at this point you know I'm teaching about it. But so that's probably why that came to mind cuz I'm talking directed energy weapons high power microwaves high energy lasers. But when I had the conscious thought looking up the beam I had a conscious thought that's a Instantly the beam went out and in place of it this thing just like exploded into a a ball of white sphere of light. >> Where the light was originating from? >> Yeah. It just like whatever it was was encompassed by this thing it was pretty

15:18 And then in quantum steps so it didn't like gradually increase, it went from one to the next and then the next. >> Discrete, yeah. >> Discrete quantum intervals. That thing looked like it went to twice its size as a sphere. >> And then moments later, it did another quantum leap to four times the size. And when it did that, it was huge sphere of this whatever this was. And you could see the thing start to The the whole thing of light seemed like it started to move, but it was accelerating extremely fast and in less than half a second had just disappeared moving toward the west. It didn't leave a trail. >> It did traverse though, right? Like you could tell it >> You could tell that initial start of movement, that acceleration. So, I saw it start accelerating very quickly and then it just blinked out. It just went. And I stood there in absolute

16:20 shock and thinking, "Oh, my wife's going to be sorry she wasn't She went in too early to see this." >> a feeling it was waiting for her to go >> Maybe it was cuz there was something about it, you know, this fact that my consciousness cuz I didn't say anything out loud. My consciousness said, "That's a craft." And as soon as it soon as I did that, it took off the beam that was on me and then it let me see. It energized I I I would say those are quantum energy leaps that then caused it to just accelerate so fast there was no watching it move away going It was almost instantaneous. I only had that little bit of a brief window to see the direction it was starting to move in before it just >> Goes out, yeah. >> It was like it just turned off. >> How do you I mean, how do you technically interpret that expansion of that light? Was it Was it a light or did it more appear like a field? >> It was a field, like a plasma field. >> Similar to the other Yeah, but this wasn't this wasn't um

17:21 It looked like a ball of plasma, but it wasn't ionizing the air for whatever reason. I wasn't seeing any color whatsoever. It was pure white when this thing turned into this sphere of light. It wasn't a bright light. I was just aware that it was this white thing. But it also didn't look like a ball. It had, you know, movement. It had energy. It was like almost like what like a ball lightning kind of would look like where it it >> Yeah, so it wasn't like a solid object at that point. It would kind of had fuzzy edges to it. >> You could tell it wasn't just like a a silhouette of like a beam of light that got bigger. You interpreted it as like a field around whatever was at the center. >> was no light hitting the ground at that point cuz I thought I looked down as well and now the thing that had encircled me, you know, when that beam went out, this wasn't lighting up anything. I wasn't getting any

18:22 reflections off the rocks or nothing. It was just there. I don't know how high it was. It was certainly above the uh There were some really large, maybe 400-year-old uh live oak trees that were in not too far away from there, but this open patch of sky it had just parked in there almost perfectly over the top of the hot tub at that point. Never was aware of it when it came in, whatever when it came in. It must It might have been there for a little And I just wasn't aware of it cuz it picked the time when I'm out of the tub and in my bath towel with my bathing suit on just light me up. And and so there seemed to me to be a a purposeful thing. And I did have a chance to go talk to uh George Knapp and uh and uh Corbell. Corbell actually Jeremy Corbell knows uh my youngest stepson who's a professional musician. He performs all over the world

19:23 he also does write scores for Hollywood movies. So, I don't know which element of that was why he was in LA and and I don't know if Jeremy was his friend because of his liking his music or liking some of his movie work. But, he and Jeremy Corbell were talking one day and Jeremy says, "Hey, by the way, have you ever seen anything strange in the sky?" He says, "No, I haven't, but I think my stepdad And he said, "Really? What?" And he said, "I don't know. He won't talk about it. Just that he's seen things." And Jeremy said, "Well, are do you think he'd come out here to LA and talk to me and George Knapp?" And he said, "I don't know. Let me call him." So, he called me up and he said, "Do you want me to come out here and talk to And this was sometime after you and I had talked. So, I agreed to do so, but when I talked to him, I said, "Look, I'm not ready to be on your Weaponized show or anything like that at this point cuz I'm still teaching this this stuff, but I'm willing to share with you all I've got to share." And when it got to that third one,

20:26 George Knapp who's sitting kind of at the end of the table and Jeremy's here beside me and they invited my stepson to be there too and you his eyes were as big as saucers. He was drowning some whiskey cuz this was like weird hearing these stories from me for the first time. But, it was a good bonding moment. Plus, after that after that third event that I just George Knapp leaned in across the table and looked me eyeball to eyeball and he "They're tracking you." That freaked me out. I never had thought of that. But, it kind of made sense that maybe, you know, maybe they are. Maybe whatever it is. Or maybe George, he looked serious as a heart attack cuz he hadn't said much. They were just taking it in and taking some notes. At that point, it kind of stunned me and I didn't even tell them about the fourth encounter I'd had, which happened after we moved to where we are now. But, yeah, they were kind of wrapped it up. It was late at night uh when we had this this thing. And then since we were in California

21:26 anyway, I took my wife up. She had She was born not born in She was born in actually Dana Harbor, she was raised in And she wanted to go back and see the the uh Redwood Forest up there, the National Redwood National Park uh on the northern coast of uh California. That was one of her favorite forest to hike in, so we took another flight up to San Francisco, got a rental car, and did all that for while we were out there. But, we originally just went into LA requested I do so. >> And they they were good about They didn't tell about anything I told them. And of course, my stuff at that point wasn't very recent, so it's not like, you know, it's it's just current as some of the things that they've been airing. But, I I thought it was good since they asked to tell them about it. And I never had any more contact with them after that because, again, they're so far beyond anything like that, you know, these kind of encounters. So, the Do you want to hear about the last one, the fourth one?

22:29 >> So, we bought a brand new house that was being built as we bought the lot. They were expanding in the subdivision. >> What year is this? >> And this was uh we got the house in And sometime in that year, so now it's we've gone from 2014 to 2016, and I've just changed locations again. >> So, I've moved to the North Tampa Bay area from Silver Springs. And I'm looking out the back lanai. We had sliding glass doors looking out the back lanai cuz there was a retention pond that made a huge sea around this set of woods that had this beautiful woods to look at from our backyard. And we didn't have a very deep backyard because of the banks of the retention pond. And of course, you know, retention ponds are pretty necessary thing in the Florida and it had some water in it at this point. Cuz it was, you know, wintertime. It was I think around March of 2016.

23:31 And I just haven't gone to bed yet, so I'm just looking at it and kind of admiring the view best I can see it. You know, it's kind of dark. And what caught my eye was there's something that was this white luminous thing that came out of the northwest sky on an angle directly down toward the retention pond. And I thought the thing was going to, whatever it was, going to smash right in the retention pond. But it didn't. As it came screeching down from above, it just stopped above the retention pond. And then kind of started moving pretty quickly down the retention pond, made the curve, slowed down, slowed down, slowed down, and stopped right behind my house, right where I'm And I'm looking at it. I'm on the other side of the sliding glass doors. I've got them open, but I'm just looking at it. And it's just stopped there. it was probably 10 ft sphere. That's about like that. It could have been less, 5 ft. I would estimate just based on knowing if it was over the center of the

24:32 retention pond, it's probably 70 ft But I felt really spooked by this cuz it was just like a ball of plasma. >> I never seen that exactly except the thing that turned into plasma before and zotched off was that at one point before it had enough energy to to really move away. So, I I kind of connected back to that When I didn't take time to see how this thing got out of there, all I did was close the door, draw the blinds, step back in my living room, and say, "I hope it doesn't come in here." >> I was a kind of freaked me out. >> I cuz I didn't know how to explain it. Well, yeah, and then so when George Knapp said that, "They're tracking you." >> That hit me that one, I dare not even tell him about this incident cuz maybe they are. That's kind of freaky. I don't like that. >> But yeah, that So >> It was a white light the whole time yep

25:34 reflecting on the water perhaps. I don't know if you could see it with the burn, >> Didn't didn't see a reflection. It was just It was white in color. It was spherical in shape. And it was making no sound whatsoever. >> And when that's truly a UAP, right? It's an anomalous phenomenon. You have no idea what it is. But ball lightning doesn't travel like that and stop at a point and and just kind of almost like it was intentional. I mean, there weren't many houses built yet beyond where we were. Uh they were they were in process of building a lot of those. So there weren't a lot of the the neighborhood that later got built in place. So it was kind of just quietest But of all things, it didn't stop at my to my left who was already built and occupied. It didn't stop anywhere else. It stopped right there. >> So yeah, I don't have any more insight than anybody else about what this is But there's no doubt in my mind

26:34 that something is interacting with us. Whether it's ultraterrestrial and been here for millions of years and it's just now showing itself. Something that's concerned about us developing nuclear weapons because we could destroy the whole place. And if they're living here in mountains, under the oceans, I've been very intrigued um I about the ocean thing, you know, cuz it seems like there's like six or seven hot spots. >> That the where they see the most things. And if you think of it, if you were if you're trying to kind of hide out and you wanted to be shielded from things like a micronova from our sun or a lot of other events that might kind of really be destructive, um being under the ocean makes a lot of sense if you have the technology to make that survivable place. >> So I don't I don't know. There's there's a lot of theories now, but it is kind of

27:34 like, well, why are there these six or seven spots that seem to be hot spots for USOs and the fact that they can come up out of the ocean and not drip and, you know, leave water coming off like a physical object, but just come out and now they can do airborne, they can do spaceborne. So they have this kind of intermedium capability to go transmedium from one to another. And I know that uh I know you work with uh Tim Gallaudet, uh Rear Admiral. I've listened to some of his stuff and I've been reading his book, which is so well written and such a career that guy's had and I know he's he's on your board and uh but I've I've really paid a lot of attention to what he's had to say, too, cuz he's really becoming more open about a lot of stuff that he knew And I I find it fascinating cuz it's uh it's the kind of thing that you can't

28:35 pinpoint. I mean, back in the day, like in the '40s and '50s, it's all about flying saucers. We don't have very much about that shape anymore. So what does does mean? And and is it capable of something is it a technology that kind of like a let's say they have technology that they can form this stuff almost like they grow it from a single crystal and they and they can do the al- uh if they can do alchemy to the point that they can transmute these materials and it just grows a craft up for whatever purpose. >> Maybe a single purpose. >> Maybe a single purpose. Maybe that's why we see different kinds and shapes but what is it? Why is it? I don't know. It's the biggest mystery I think of our age right now. And that's why I'm very much at this point behind getting the word out There are lots of other pilots that I know have had encounters. I mean I don't know but I'm just hence my sense that they must have had. >> None of my encounters were in airplanes

29:35 which is weird but then again we've done a lot of night flying just on the TFR and stuff and the F-111 even had radiation shields you could put up in the front and side curtains come down. >> And you wore one eye patch >> in case you got nuclear blinded in spite of all that. >> Oh, wow. >> So you could save one eye. I mean these these were probably one-way missions cuz where you going to come back to if if the if the whole blew >> it's just a matter of time at that >> So it was a horrifying thing that to think of um but you know, it was the job that I was I found myself in. I didn't know before I went to NATO that that was going to be part of the >> But it makes sense. That's what the airplane was optimized to do. We've kind of already answered this but I mean do you think you were singled >> I have no idea. There's been no you know, I don't have telepathic memories to my knowledge. I don't have any implants to my knowledge. I've never been taken. I've not been an experiencer that's that's actually been taken aboard a ship.

30:35 >> It sounds like you've had a lot of good >> Well, I've had a lot of years to think about it and then got a lot of uh engineering and advanced education after that, and Master of Science this, Master of Science that. So, it's it's something that just the way my mind works is always wanting to analyze this stuff. I would love to know. My curiosity is insane about it now. So, I've got I subscribed to so many UAP type channels just looking for nibbles of information to come out, and trying to assess what's credible and what's But, it's it's an interesting time to live in when we're not completely encased in the stigma zone. >> Although, there's still some of that. >> There certainly is. Especially, I mean, for people that are still active duty or still actively flying, right? The the risk-reward ratio is still very skewed to the risk side, of course. but that was going to be, you know, perhaps one of my parting questions here is just kind of your interpretation of

31:38 how things have been evolving, and if you have anything to say to pilots that are flying now about what why or >> or to help them motivate them to come >> Yeah, I I do want to say to the pilots that are listening, and probably that that'd be a large share of the audience that that show watches your show for the very nature of what it is, Americans for Safe Aerospace. I do think it's important that people start to come out, and if if not during their active flying, at least come out after they've re- tired, or if they've got a company that finally is willing to allow for this to be publicly known. That would be wonderful. I understand the stigma that they would feel about not wanting to lose their flying career. So, we share that, right? We >> loved flying so much that wouldn't have wanted to jeopardize that, and I so I get that. But, the the totality of these encounters needs to be known because

32:38 I think there probably has been I mean there's some stories of where craft have been hit by something. >> And you know, clearly their technology is not perfect. I mean, whatever is. So, there is this potential and we need to better abilities to determine that these things are out there. And as you had mentioned with when your actively electronically scanned array radar got upgraded, suddenly you had this resolving power that was pretty enormous and you're seeing these things out in your training training ranges on radar. Your your radar is actually picking the stuff up which before I know that most airliners don't have that degree of radar. It's mostly for weather avoidance. But yet, there's so many pilots that have had these eyeball encounters with stuff that's very anomalous. I'm very proud of the ones who have

33:39 shared their stories cuz this compendium of total knowledge helps better understand and eventually I think we need some kind of disclosure. I mean, if we've reverse engineered stuff and other adversaries are trying to do the I feel pretty much the same about that being kept >> But the fact that if we're not alone, we need to know that. Mankind needs to know And I'm hoping we're approaching the day maybe even this year when that is revealed at the level of maybe the president talking about it. Whether or not we ever reach what full disclosure and I don't want us to go to catastrophic disclosure cuz I don't think um um any um insights that we've developed It's like, you know, you can you can study nuclear physics in a college but they don't teach you how to build a

34:40 thermonuclear weapon. >> And so, I think things like that are better kept um from spreading too much. And so, if we have got a new physics that replaces the current standard model physics, I'd be excited for that. I'm a big proponent of uh the electric universe theories and plasma cosmology. >> Because I think that as we're seeing some of the images coming back from our more advanced stuff, like the web and other uh advanced space particularly the stuff that's in the um and the near infrared, there is so visual confirmation that electrical currents are doing these Birkeland current things in the galaxies, and that stars may be formed by that, not some gravity collapse thermonuclear fusion bomb in the middle of every star. That theory has never made a lot of

35:41 sense to me. And now [snorts] that we know we've measured the temperature of the photosphere of the sun, and that's only about 5,000° K, and yet they think it's 15 million degrees in the center of the star. Why is it so cool on the surface? And then why does it go to 2 million, 3 million degrees several million miles out in the corona? That's fair. >> That's a that's a conundrum that uh standard model science doesn't explain. >> And I think that the that we live in an electric universe, not that that's exclusively it, but I think that's an element that if we look at Einstein's theory of general relativity, and we think about the times when that thought experiment occurred to him. It was a time when the project had assumed that this ether was like a a gas thing. And when that experiment failed, they sort of said, "Well, there's nothing else in space besides gravity,

36:42 the force of gravity." And of course, all of general relativity is built on And that the whole universe is put together by everything attracting or moving apart due to gravitational It's not that gravity doesn't exist, but I think there are fundamental forces in the electromagnetic spectrum that are like we talked before, 10 to the 39th power greater than the force of gravity. You can take a little tiny refrigerator magnet and have a paper clip on your desk right here, and it'll jump off the table even though all of Earth's gravity is trying to pull it >> And so, that's just the simplest illustration of it. If we've learned how to harness some of to do similar what these craft, if not as elegant as these craft, then in my mind needs to stay secret. That needs to stay ultra imagine if you can harness things like zero-point energy, if zero-point energy can be harnessed, which would kind of make sense that if

37:43 it did, you have this infinite energy supply to power your craft, and it's everywhere. It's everywhere we go. It's inside of us even. This quantum field vacuum, if that's accessible in a meaningful it makes sense that there wouldn't be limitations on what we could do in terms of travel throughout the universe. So, if these are from another place in the universe, then why couldn't these exceed the speed of light if they have if they can cancel >> Because then, you basically aren't restricted by Einstein's equations and his theories in not general relativity, but in special relativity where he talks about speed of light can't be exceeded. >> Maybe that's not true. >> Well, I mean there are examples of the speed of light being exceeded. The expanse of the universe is expanding faster than the speed of light. >> Um so there there's still a lot of, you know, our physics only covers so much of the territory right now. There's

38:43 >> I agree with you. >> There's much to to continue to uncover uh it's always frustrating to hear people dismiss this conversation because they want to stay within the current scientific paradigm which has only existed for about 110 years or so. >> In another 100 years, I think there's going to be a lot of additional and new physics that are going to make what we understand now seem quite silly in comparison. >> Yeah, if you look back through history, science has always had these hurdles that it hit. You think about the time when it was the spheres and the earth earth at the center and that was that was the standard science. >> And the sun revolves around the earth and the planets revolve around the earth but then they had to invent these equations for doing these little micro curves that they had to do the loops cuz, you know, they didn't track And so the epicycles that they put into that were just more add-ons and band-aids to try to keep that alive. And it was very heretical to say otherwise. And so that's what the

39:46 Galileo stood up against that, you know, and he was viewing the moons, at least the what they call the Galilean moons, the four large ones around Jupiter which has, I don't know, 100 and something moons circling it but he was visualizing that with a telescope and uh he had already decided that no, the earth's not the center of anything. We're orbiting around the sun and not not otherwise and the church put him in house arrest for the rest of his life and we wouldn't have any of his stuff cuz they were going to burn it all. But he sneaked out stuff to the guys that brought him food under house arrest. And that's the only reason we have some of his theories persisting. So it's almost like we're we're going through a period now about what standard physics has guarded and they keep adding band-aids to it. >> The first time they came up with the black hole theory, even Einstein said that's an abuse of my equations relativity cuz you are you allow yourself to divide by zero. >> So you have an infinitely small mass

40:48 or an infinitely large mass in an infinitely small space. Uh this whole center of the black hole thing. And again, if it is actually just a plasmoid of energy, electromagnetic energy, and we can create plasmoids in in a laboratory now. And so we know what those are. If each galaxy at its center has a plasmoid, it would be dark to us. And the electromagnetic energy would be radiating out, and it seems to do that. And the James Webb telescope is showing us his images that mainstream science can't explain. And and also fully formed galaxies way beyond this whole thing. So when they came up with the oh, it's 13.8 million billion years old the and then the whole universe was born of this explosion when there was nothing. >> Another infinity in science, right? >> And then they said, oh, oh, now we got to fix that. So now there was we had to have because it had to it had to move out at

41:49 greater than the speed of light initially cuz they couldn't explain things otherwise. And then when Vera Rubin started looking at distant galaxies and noticing measuring the speed of stars, cuz it takes a long time to figure all that out, keep looking at the same galaxy and came out with well, that's not obeying Newton's gravitational pull law, so there must be more gravity. >> And then they invented not only now we had black holes, we had this explosive expansion of the universe. We had another thing that they were doing, which was to take the infrared signature and assuming that's always going to represent Doppler velocity. >> Yeah. Consistently across time, too, right? There could be variations in these forces of >> more than that. Whenever time that a quasar is burped out of the center of a that huge chunk of plasma energy, the starts orbiting its parent galaxy, but when it comes out, it has an inherent uh signature that's a very huge red shift.

42:51 >> And then, as it ages and becomes more in settled orbiting the galaxy, like we have the large and small Magellanic Clouds, a pair of them that we know of orbiting the Milky Way, as those become settled out, their red shift eventually comes down to exactly the galaxy's red shift that they were born from. So, there are these inherent red shifts. And even when Hubble was the first to use a spectroscopy on a telescope to figuring out these shifts and that we had the Andromeda galaxy wasn't a star cluster in our galaxy, but something far away from us, a couple of uh what is it? 2.5 million light-years away. When they first started talking about that we can just measure the speed of every galaxy by just its red shift, he said, "I think that's not true. That's just That's a I think a misuse of an over categorization of the red shift." So, he had a guy that was a partner with him named Halton Arp,

43:53 who went with that, and he started really focusing telescope time and these quasars that that the current theory said, "Oh, they've got to be, you know, million light-years away. And this galaxy is like, you know, 4 million light-years away, but it's in front of the galaxy, still kind of tied to the galaxy because it had an inherent red shift. And when you interpret that, always has distance. And then when you say, "And we can look at the red shift and say, 'Okay, and that's that also can tell us speed.'" So, we don't really know any of that cuz it it depends on that assumption. >> And so then when you say, "Well, these stars are not rotating correctly, so there must be extra mass, extra gravity." So, they invent dark energy. And where have we been? Like 20-something years and they have spent $19 billion trying to find, out of I don't know, 30

44:54 different theories of what dark energy is and they've never confirmed any of it. And yet we stick with that. >> Well, if you look at if you look at the universe and how it behave if it was an electric universe, you don't need any of that because an electric universe actually when you model it, makes galaxies galaxies do what they do in the spiral arms develop cuz that's where the Birkeland currents are spiraling out. So, I think there's some stuff to be studied there, not that that that's perfectly sound right now, but I kind of abandoned mainstream science a quite a few years ago and have been really looking for better answers and better fits. So, part of why we're not making out rapid progress is that our current makes all this impossible, which makes it impossible to believe it's really happening. You can't believe your own >> And impossible to progress. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Well, Dan, this this has been absolutely fascinating. I really want to thank you

45:56 for being willing to finally share these stories. Um I know it's been some time coming, even after you came forward to us, but I'm really happy we could provide you a platform for this and you've been able to set an incredible example, I think, for others who I'm sure, no doubt, there are probably many thousands of other people, not unlike yourself, who have similar things to share, just haven't been willing to come forward yet. And so, >> I think there are. >> I look forward to hearing their stories, hopefully on your show as well. >> so. Uh, if you have something to report, encourage you go to safeaerospace.org, submit a report, we'll reach out to you. Um, and we'll continue to piece this puzzle together and not be ashamed to look at things that don't fit inside our current paradigm quite yet. >> Well, again, thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure to finally meet you in person and uh, mind meld with you a little bit before we started the show, cuz you and I you and I share a similar kind of a brain and we have a similar kind of background flying fighter jets and

46:57 loving it. So, yeah, I I was pleasure to to feel the brotherhood here. So, thank you so much. >> you, Dan.